It's about time to turn off PoW mining - page 14.

kodtycoon

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Quote from: inBitweTrust on September 27, 2014, 10:46:18 AM

Quote from: Brangdon on September 27, 2014, 10:07:27 AM

Nxt disallows block-chain re-organisations past 720 blocks, so you have to mount your attack within 12 hours of selling your coins. Selling 51% of NXT, or even 20% of NXT, within a 12-hour window would crash the price. You'd lose a fortune. This is not a cheap attack.

One could always negotiate a wholesale price with multiple private parties to sell off the Nxt without touching any exchange and crashing the market. These private parties would be ignorant to the fact that this offer was being made to many other members because the purchasing party would want to keep secret the wholesale purchase as to not draw attention to a possible large sale and thus instigators other traders to sell as well before they have a chance to do so.

ok you go and try and find private buyers of millions of dollars of a coin in less than 12hours.. Good luck with that.. You couldn't even sell 2m worth in 12 hours.. Probably not even 1m or even 500k dollars worth.. Your being out right stupid and picking at straws.. If you think what you just posted is possible in 12 hours then you are an idiot

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: Brangdon on September 27, 2014, 10:07:27 AM

Nxt disallows block-chain re-organisations past 720 blocks, so you have to mount your attack within 12 hours of selling your coins. Selling 51% of NXT, or even 20% of NXT, within a 12-hour window would crash the price. You'd lose a fortune. This is not a cheap attack.

One could always negotiate a wholesale price with multiple private parties to sell off the Nxt without touching any exchange and crashing the market. These private parties would be ignorant to the fact that this offer was being made to many other members because the purchasing party would want to keep secret the wholesale purchase as to not draw attention to a possible large sale and thus instigators other traders to sell as well before they have a chance to do so.

In such scenario the outside attacker would have to take a minor loss but not anywhere near as much as you suggest.

Brangdon

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Quote from: achimsmile on September 26, 2014, 10:20:45 AM

history attack. If he sold his 51% after block X, he can delete every block after X from his blockchain and pretend that he never sold the coins. The fork from before the selling will eventually become longer than all other chains.

This is fun and stuff, but you still have to have 51% at some point Tongue

Nxt disallows block-chain re-organisations past 720 blocks, so you have to mount your attack within 12 hours of selling your coins. Selling 51% of NXT, or even 20% of NXT, within a 12-hour window would crash the price. You'd lose a fortune. This is not a cheap attack.

smalltimer

sr. member

Activity: 252

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false claim. Just bumping btsx in bitcoin-section. Done here. It's spam.

kokojie

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Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:29:01 AM

a successful attack in pos is far more damaging to a coin than a successful attack in pow.
Once successfully forked you can scrap it.

That's false, and again addressed in my post #409, an attack on PoW network is far more permanent. We have also witnessed many PoW altcoin developer giving up after being 51% attacked constantly.

smalltimer

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a successful attack in pos is far more damaging to a coin than a successful attack in pow.
Once successfully forked you can scrap it.

kokojie

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Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:22:11 AM

right. Buy 20% or 30% of the coins - will be enough and can be done.

Sell them at a profit, fork that shit and get your coins back, sell them again.

Just move the thread to altcoin so it gets lost with all the other crap. Keep holding pos-coins. Good luck.

Do you think it's easier to buy 20% or 30% of Bitcoin? or use money worth about 10% of Bitcoin marketcap to buy enough hardware to attack?

I never said PoS can't be attacked, just that PoW can be attacked easier.

and if this is true, then why the hell is Bitcoin spending $500M per year in PoW expense, if PoS is more secure and much cheaper.

achimsmile

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Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:22:11 AM

right. Buy 20% or 30% of the coins - will be enough and can be done.

Sell them at a profit, fork that shit and get your coins back, sell them again.

As I said. Buy 51% of bitcoin hashing power. so easy, much wow.

smalltimer

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Activity: 252

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right. Buy 20% or 30% of the coins - will be enough and can be done.

Sell them at a profit, fork that shit and get your coins back, sell them again.

Just move the thread to altcoin so it gets lost with all the other crap. Keep holding pos-coins. Good luck.

kokojie

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Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:18:56 AM

Quote from: kokojie on September 26, 2014, 10:17:01 AM

Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:15:56 AM

Quote from: kokojie on September 26, 2014, 10:12:31 AM

Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:09:23 AM

i can 51% the network after having held a significant amount of the coins with a cost of zero to name just one of many problems. That shit is for the trashcan. It couldn't be more blatant how you pump your shitcoin... and on top of it in the wrong section.
Jeeez. I am done here.

I have already addressed this issue in post #409.

Your first obstacle is obtaining 51%, your second obstacle is you will lose your 51% immediately after you try to attack. No one would be dumb enough to even attempt this, and this why this attack have never happened in reality in a PoS network. Though 51% attack has been repeatedly successfully done on PoW altcoins, how do you explain that?

you sell your 51% before you attack of course so you have nothing to loose. And you don't need 51% of the coins. 20% will be enough since you just need 51% of the coins staking at any given moment in time.

I don't get it, how do you attack with your 51% stake if you sold it before the attack?

you create a chain longer than the current chain from the block where you still had the coin in your wallet. Done.

That would be a chicken and egg problem, you can't create a chain longer than the current chain, if you already sold your stake. Plus, how long do you think it would take to sell 51% stake in an eco-system? I believe it would take months. Again, no one would attempt this, it's impossible to pull off.

achimsmile

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Quote from: kokojie on September 26, 2014, 10:17:01 AM

Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:15:56 AM

Quote from: kokojie on September 26, 2014, 10:12:31 AM

Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:09:23 AM

i can 51% the network after having held a significant amount of the coins with a cost of zero to name just one of many problems. That shit is for the trashcan. It couldn't be more blatant how you pump your shitcoin... and on top of it in the wrong section.
Jeeez. I am done here.

I have already addressed this issue in post #409.

Your first obstacle is obtaining 51%, your second obstacle is you will lose your 51% immediately after you try to attack. No one would be dumb enough to even attempt this, and this why this attack have never happened in reality in a PoS network. Though 51% attack has been repeatedly successfully done on PoW altcoins, how do you explain that?

you sell your 51% before you attack of course so you have nothing to loose. And you don't need 51% of the coins. 20% will be enough since you just need 51% of the coins staking at any given moment in time.

I don't get it, how do you attack with your 51% stake if you sold it before the attack?

history attack. If he sold his 51% after block X, he can delete every block after X from his blockchain and pretend that he never sold the coins. The fork from before the selling will eventually become longer than all other chains.

This is fun and stuff, but you still have to have 51% at some point Tongue

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

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Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:18:56 AM

you create a chain longer than the current chain from the block where you still had the coin in your wallet. Done.

See? Told ya, it's as easy as taking crap in the morning. Anyone and their mama can do it

smalltimer

sr. member

Activity: 252

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Quote from: kokojie on September 26, 2014, 10:17:01 AM

Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:15:56 AM

Quote from: kokojie on September 26, 2014, 10:12:31 AM

Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:09:23 AM

i can 51% the network after having held a significant amount of the coins with a cost of zero to name just one of many problems. That shit is for the trashcan. It couldn't be more blatant how you pump your shitcoin... and on top of it in the wrong section.
Jeeez. I am done here.

I have already addressed this issue in post #409.

Your first obstacle is obtaining 51%, your second obstacle is you will lose your 51% immediately after you try to attack. No one would be dumb enough to even attempt this, and this why this attack have never happened in reality in a PoS network. Though 51% attack has been repeatedly successfully done on PoW altcoins, how do you explain that?

you sell your 51% before you attack of course so you have nothing to loose. And you don't need 51% of the coins. 20% will be enough since you just need 51% of the coins staking at any given moment in time.

I don't get it, how do you attack with your 51% stake if you sold it before the attack?

you create a chain longer than the current chain from the block where you still had the coin in your wallet. Done.

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 260

Quote from: kokojie on September 26, 2014, 10:17:01 AM

I don't get it, how do you attack with your 51% stake if you sold it before the attack?

You just can, trust him. He heard it somewhere

kokojie

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Activity: 1806

Merit: 1003

Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:15:56 AM

Quote from: kokojie on September 26, 2014, 10:12:31 AM

Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:09:23 AM

i can 51% the network after having held a significant amount of the coins with a cost of zero to name just one of many problems. That shit is for the trashcan. It couldn't be more blatant how you pump your shitcoin... and on top of it in the wrong section.
Jeeez. I am done here.

I have already addressed this issue in post #409.

Your first obstacle is obtaining 51%, your second obstacle is you will lose your 51% immediately after you try to attack. No one would be dumb enough to even attempt this, and this why this attack have never happened in reality in a PoS network. Though 51% attack has been repeatedly successfully done on PoW altcoins, how do you explain that?

you sell your 51% before you attack of course so you have nothing to loose. And you don't need 51% of the coins. 20% will be enough since you just need 51% of the coins staking at any given moment in time.

I don't get it, how do you attack with your 51% stake if you sold it before the attack?

achimsmile

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Activity: 1225

Merit: 1000

Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:09:23 AM

i can 51% the network after having held a significant amount of the coins with a cost of zero

I can attack bitcoin, just by owning 51% of all hashing power.

smalltimer

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: kokojie on September 26, 2014, 10:12:31 AM

Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:09:23 AM

i can 51% the network after having held a significant amount of the coins with a cost of zero to name just one of many problems. That shit is for the trashcan. It couldn't be more blatant how you pump your shitcoin... and on top of it in the wrong section.
Jeeez. I am done here.

I have already addressed this issue in post #409.

Your first obstacle is obtaining 51%, your second obstacle is you will lose your 51% immediately after you try to attack. No one would be dumb enough to even attempt this, and this why this attack have never happened in reality in a PoS network. Though 51% attack has been repeatedly successfully done on PoW altcoins, how do you explain that?

you sell your 51% before you attack of course so you have nothing to loose. And you don't need 51% of the coins. 20% will be enough since you just need 51% of the coins staking at any given moment in time. All you need to do is broadcast the chain you created from the point on where you still had your coins. No big deal. Just profit.

kokojie

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Activity: 1806

Merit: 1003

Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:12:11 AM

you have to post here under the guise of wanting to discuss bitcoin because in altcoins you would be eaten alive. Go on, tell me more about how nice btsx are.

Why would I go into altcoin section if I want to discuss converting Bitcoin to PoS? you have a funny way of keep mentioning altcoins though. I'm wondering if you are actually trying to pump the altcoin section now.

kokojie

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1003

Quote from: smalltimer on September 26, 2014, 10:09:23 AM

i can 51% the network after having held a significant amount of the coins with a cost of zero to name just one of many problems. That shit is for the trashcan. It couldn't be more blatant how you pump your shitcoin... and on top of it in the wrong section.
Jeeez. I am done here.

I have already addressed this issue in post #409.

Your first obstacle is obtaining 51%, your second obstacle is you will lose your 51% immediately after you try to attack. No one would be dumb enough to even attempt this, and this why this attack have never happened in reality in a PoS network. Though 51% attack has been repeatedly successfully done on PoW altcoins, how do you explain that?

smalltimer

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

you have to post here under the guise of wanting to discuss bitcoin because in altcoins you would be eaten alive. Go on, tell me more about how nice btsx are.

Topic: It's about time to turn off PoW mining - page 14. (Read 39732 times)