Topic: It's about time to turn off PoW mining - page 9. (Read 39732 times)

lets hear

Never played it. I will be curious about any stake based coin game. I've been working on one as well.

gox! lol.

i dont know.. what are the rules?

A coin that is also a game. Now that is interesting. Would it work with Magic the Gathering too?

no, there is no mining in Satoshi Fantasy , proof-of-skill . its Bergstake earned via fantasy football skills vs via mining in Breakout coin.

BRO uses CryptoNote so there already is GPU at launch 

Proof of Skill as I understand is re-signing old blocks. I don't see how that proves anything. It gives extra permanent stake for miners that develop faster technology mining. It can easily be abused if the developers already have GPU and ASIC mining available and only release CPU mining as open source.

what about proof-of-skill?

The checkpoints are solving two different issues with PoW vs. PoS. In PoW it prevents faster hashing from rebuilding lower difficulty chains. In PoS they are the duct tape holding everything together which works fine if there is one central major stakeholder. I'm just not sure that Bergstake isn't even more elitist than DPoS.

its a replacement for 100% pre-mined, or developer checkpoint centralized PoS blockchains.

fyi: PoS coins are now dependent on checkpoints.. unlike Bitcoin.

Ok, this isn't really a revolutionary idea as a way to remove the need for historical checkpoints.Bitcoin will be removing the need for checkpoints with the headers-first sync in the next version.

http://satoshifantasy.com/bergstake-2/

http://satoshifantasy.com/media/satoshifantasy.pdf

Do you have a link to the Bergstake white paper?

Nxt and Peercoin have their issues.. check out the BRO coin solution and tell me if it's the holy grail.. or not...

We can save enough energy to power Ireland

has anyone looked at Bergstake or BRO or Breakout Coin? its PoS without checkpoints

As far as the Bitcoin 2 marketing, I tried to create a separate distinction between the Bitcoin metadata derivative app development and the more ambitious Turing complete protocol development. The term is used for both which makes some conversations confusing.

Authority based coins are ideal for governments. Unfortunately, governments don't care about their economies anymore, they only care about their weapons. They still don't realize how powerful a PoW blockchain can be as a weapon, as well as an instrument of mass enlightenment.

Bitcoin is getting beyond apps. They will have ATMs and handheld devices so simple even a POTUS could use one.

actually that isnt true by any means about 2.0/3.0 being just marketing gimmicks.. its down the architecture of the protocol. nothing to do with marketing. there is a very clear line between 1.0 and 2.0.

government issued PoS coins? seriously? haha like that would ever take off lol

"Nxt has a very controversial IPO that will continue to always haunt it in the same way that Satoshi's 750k to 1 million coins will haunt bitcoin(Not as bad as a 2 month IPO where the date was changed however)"

i actually fully agree with you on the matter posted above and its one reason why im fully invested in a coin other than nxt. believe it or not i actually hold a minimal amount of nxt. i hold most of my funds in a coin that has stakes on their asset exchange, a coin that im 100% certain is going to push nxt down a peg on coin marketcap and one you will hear about very soon. so ya im not fighting nxt's corner.. im fighting the 2.0 corner really. all the negativity aimed at nxt alone is enough to hinder further adoption. i dont like that so few have so much. but up until i found out about this other platform it was the most promising i could find.

as for the bundling apps.. would it not be better if there wasnt a need for third parties to bundle the software in multiple different clients?.. would it not be better if the software already came bundled and segmented as stock? if a new user wants to use bitcoin and also app x y z.. how do they find app x y z after downloading and installing a bitcoin client? they would have to search for the right bundled client and do a second downoad. the apps not being in the first client someone downloads is enough to put most joe soaps off. would it not be better if they could download the client of the software and find all the apps they need in the clients app store? joe soap is not going to want to go around looking for the right client that has the features they need to fit their needs. what if the next day they want to use a different feature thats not in that client? they would have to go find a different one that does have it. having to use 3rd parties to bring these features together is far from optimal.

The whole Bitcoin/blockchain/cryptocoin 2.0 , 3.0, ect... speak is mostly marketing talk for alts so don't pay attention to that.

Bundling apps and software is already happening in Bitcoin as you can see with various hot wallets, openbazzar, and other wallets like kryptokit.
The Future for bitcoin will have both single solution apps and bundled featured apps. I want them both and so does the market.

Bitcoin will likely be akin to HTML where many programs, aps , and blockchains are scaffolded to it including PoS and DPoS variants. If Bitcoin fails(possible) it is more likely that an inflationary government issued PoS or DPoS, or Ripple/stellar like coin takes over. I understand you won't want to hear this but I cannot see too many circumstances of Nxt growing beyond maintaining a niche market in the top 5 cyrptocoins at best. There are both network, and social reasons for this and Nxt has a very controversial IPO that will continue to always haunt it in the same way that Satoshi's 750k to 1 million coins will haunt bitcoin(Not as bad as a 2 month IPO where the date was changed however)


There are many wallets and aps that have functions other than sending and receiving Bitcoin. Kryptokit is one of them, but who cares if a feature uses multiple blockchains or there are many solutions and 3rd parties involved when they all use and depend upon the bitcoin blockchain. So your criticism of Bitcoin is that there is too much choice and you would rather have only one bitcoin client with everything included? That is a recipe for disaster and a sure way to never grow.  

A Few features that Bitcoin has over Nxt Right now (Outside of marketshare and adoption):

How about the quantity of choice in smartphone wallets, hot wallets , standalone wallets, multi-sig wallets?
How about all the API's and frameworks written?
How about all of the current and soon to be released Bitcoin Hardware wallets?
How about the Bitcoin ATM's?
How about the Bitcoin POS devices for merchants?
How about the numerous Bitcoin implementations written in many different frameworks and code?

you make a good argument about the segmentation of features or apps.. but what you aren't seeing is that soon, these 2.0 platforms will come with a basic client and then the "apps" or "features" will also be segmented with in the one platform but also come in one download.. so you would download say the nxt software, and all the apps would be within that software aswell as a marketplace and everything else, but you would just have the client and another "app section" so if you only want to use the basic send and receive coins function you just dont enable the other apps. if you want the other apps.. you click over to the app section and enable the apps you want to use within the client with out having to do any other downloads.

 so the nxt sorftware(its not nxt im talking about, just using it as an example) would be more akin to the android OS instead of one of the apps on the app store. supernet is perfect example. with supernet, you will have the option in all participating coins clients, to enable supernet features and have instant access to them, how ever if you do not want to see those features you just dont enable them. i wont mention the coin that im nearly 100% sure is going to implement this method but thats where this is going.. so yes your are totally correct that the segmentation of apps is the best method but the way it will be implimented is totally different to the way the apps are built around bitcoin. bitcoin was not designed for all these apps to be bolted on. there was even a risk for a while the bitcoin devs were going to disable some kind of transaction that allowed mastercoin to function because it was too heavy on memory in transactions or something? that happened and i think is still an issue because bitcoin isnt designed for that.

you are correct that bitcoin, or a piece of software that uses bitcoin in some way, can do everything or nearly everything nxt can do but it doesnt do it even nearly as elegantly and if anything is a burden on the bitcoin blockchain. it is the method by which these apps are created and integrated into the system that is going to win the crypto war. nxt is more elegant in its creation and integration of features than bitcoin for obvious reason but it is still not perfect. the plethora of features that are possible cant possibly be all in one client and enabled by default. it will in time, if not already be overwhelming to the user to have so many apps thrown in their face at one time with out a way of hiding apps or selecting which they would like to enable.

there is going to be another 2.0, or 3.0 that does this in a far more elegant manner than both nxt and btc, having all the apps in one download but also segmented for user friendliness. an app store, or marketplace that covers everything from apps to digital goods and the asset exchange within the client if you like, where users can enable or disable what ever apps they wish perhaps with the top 3-5 apps being default enabled. would you agree that that is the perfect solution to the "apps" issue?

introducing bugs with new features is not by any means an issue as long as the features are properly tested before integration. what apps are you talking about that have had less testing than bitcoin apps? i know every feature in nxt went through months of hard testing until all bugs were solved, normally they were gui bugs. i dont follow enough other coins to know how much testing other platforms went through.

and you didnt answer my question...

 "So again, what specifically can bitcoin accomplish that NXT cannot other than send and receive coins with out the use of a 3rd party or alternate blockchain right now?"

No , they are all dependent upon bitcoin and if you cannot see why being modular is important than you really have a lot to learn about flexibility, choice, and security.


False, I have been using darkwallet for some time now. Most of those PoS apps are in dev as well and have far less testing than Bitcoin apps.


Off chain transactions have their purpose as they remove blockchain bloat.


Yes, namecoin is dependent upon Bitcoin PoW; that is what secures it. Why does everything have to be on the same blockchain? In the future BTC will interact with thousands of blockchains
with either sidechains or treechains. This is a good thing.


This statement is nonsensical and expresses that you don't understand what is being downloaded and what role the bitcoin protocol serves. Are you talking about the "Bitcoin Core" client(Serving the role as 1 variation of a wallet and one type of full node only)? That isn't the Bitcoin Protocol.



Yes, all of the above transactions and features are handled by the Bitcoin protocol. Are you conflating Bitcoin Core with the Bitcoin Protocol?



Why isn't there one app on your smartphone that does everything? Why isn't there one program in your computer that does everything? Why are all these apps and programs
modular and separate? There are good reasons for this that I don't have time to give you a full lecture on, but think about it.



Yes, but I haven't tested bitshares yet. It does have an certain advantage in that there are many functions within the same application. With bitcoin their are certain wallets that have more or different functions than others, it really depends up on what you want to use. Their are some wallets in BTC that have messaging, some that have other assets as well, the ability to forge or mine wouldn't apply with a current bitcoin wallet anymore, some that have news and integrate in with shopping.

Perhaps you haven't kept up with all the choices/development in the bitcoin world and are merely comparing bitcoin core client to Nxt Wallet?

those are all things built around bitcoin.. counter party is slow as hell 10 min conformations to trading is slow as shit compared to nxt's 1m conformations.. darkwallet is not even released and has been in development so long iv lost hope for it to become a real thing.. my money is on btcd's teleport being released before that. greenaddress/coinbase/circle/bitpay/open transactions/ect are all centralised 3rd parties afaik perhaps bar open transactions?? they are not instant transactions from one bitcoin address to another only using the bitcoin protocol. merged mining is not a feature.. having to sell you bitcoin to get namecoin is moving from one protocol to another to use a feature.. not a feature in the bitcoin protocol...

basically everything you have mentioned is ether using a different protocol or a 3rd party and none of it you can do by only downloading the bitcoin protocol on its own.. it  all requires extra downloads plug ins or another protocol.

how many different types of transactions can the bitcoin protocol make? thats what matters because its the different types of transactions that allow for different features to be built into a 2.0 protocol afaik. just because features are added to the core it does not mean the platform will be riddled with bugs.. nxt has god knows how many types of transactions going into the blockchain for multiple different features that are built in to the core, if there were plenty of bugs do you not think all these 2.0 haters would be going out of their way to exploit them and bring nxt down?

my answer is just your question reworded. because bitcoin the protocol on its own cannot do anything that nxt can with out the use of a 3rd party or alternate blockchain.

So again, what specifically can bitcoin accomplish that NXT cannot with out the use of a 3rd party or alternate blockchainright now?

do you really think having to download a different piece of software for every little different feature is user friendly? stop trying to make it sound like bitcoin is flexible..

everything nxt can do is built into the platform its self and comes in one package. everything you are saying bitcoin can do, is not bitcoin the protocol. its 3rd party software that you have to download and run in parallel to the bitcoin software. so its not bitcoin. its other software that does all that.. everything you say bitcoin can do, even though its not bitcoin, nxt can do in one download using only one piece of software apposed to multiple different bits of software to work in some frankenstien style type mix of software.

have you ever even used nxt?