Pages:
Author

Topic: It's ok to love the decentralized bitcoin but why hate the centralized one? (Read 2758 times)

legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1000
A centralized digital currency/gov coin is a fucking nightmare
Everything you earn, buy & sell will be controlled and spied on, you will be nothing more than a taxed livestock


exactly, it would be even easier to control than the dollar, which would be absolutely horrible for freedom.

imagine a coin where they can trace all your transactions, control the supply and instantly freeze your account and your ability to buy/sell anything.

if such a coin would become a global standard, we are literally less free than slaves.

don't like the government? How about you can't buy groceries anymore?

Thanks for the comment.

Where have found you in the main post the the centralized digital coin is a "government" coin? Can you show here the exact sentence in which is expressed such thought?

Then another question. Why use you the dollar or every kind of "governmental" money (in my country the money is controlled by the Central Bank and not from Government)? Why don't you live without those? Maybe you can use the barter system. It could be not controlled so easy from the Government and you will be more free.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
A centralized digital currency/gov coin is a fucking nightmare
Everything you earn, buy & sell will be controlled and spied on, you will be nothing more than a taxed livestock


exactly, it would be even easier to control than the dollar, which would be absolutely horrible for freedom.

imagine a coin where they can trace all your transactions, control the supply and instantly freeze your account and your ability to buy/sell anything.

if such a coin would become a global standard, we are literally less free than slaves.

don't like the government? How about you can't buy groceries anymore?
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin is one such
phenomenon, with its quasimythical origins, ground breaking
software, and fairly obvious potential, however to date early
adopters outside of the
murky world of sites such as Silk Road, the now defunct online drug store (watch out
for Silk Road 2, origins unknown),
have been few and far between.

Bitcoin’s somewhat seedy reputation
has been cemented by the seizure of
Silk Road, the bankruptcy of the Mt.Gox exchange, which at one point
was handling 70% of all Bitcoin
transactions, the extreme volatility
of the online currency, and concerns regarding  safety and
online theft.
Like any other fiat currency,

however, Bitcoin’s do not simply
disappear into thin air, and the US
government has done more than
anyone to restore their reputation,
successfully auctioning off Bitcoins
seized from Silk Road in much the
same way that the Miami vice squad
might auction a speedboat seized as
part of a drugs raid.

In which world do you live you addy boy? Do you know that this post can be considered as spam here? And this can make possible your ban from the forum? It is out of everything and have no any meaning. Watch to yourself and ask: what I am doing?

Anyhow I am trying to bring you in Earth. Read very well the main post and if have something to tell about what is written there will be welcomed to write here your thoughts about that post.

Do a search within yourself and stay in peace. Hope that you will find good reasons and right meanings to understand well what you have written in your post and what I am answering to you.

After the bots Bitmixer are presenting another phenomenon. Who knows which kind of surprises will offer in the future this site....
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Bitcoin is one such
phenomenon, with its quasimythical origins, ground breaking
software, and fairly obvious potential, however to date early
adopters outside of the
murky world of sites such as Silk Road, the now defunct online drug store (watch out
for Silk Road 2, origins unknown),
have been few and far between.

Bitcoin’s somewhat seedy reputation
has been cemented by the seizure of
Silk Road, the bankruptcy of the Mt.Gox exchange, which at one point
was handling 70% of all Bitcoin
transactions, the extreme volatility
of the online currency, and concerns regarding  safety and
online theft.
Like any other fiat currency,

however, Bitcoin’s do not simply
disappear into thin air, and the US
government has done more than
anyone to restore their reputation,
successfully auctioning off Bitcoins
seized from Silk Road in much the
same way that the Miami vice squad
might auction a speedboat seized as
part of a drugs raid.
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1000
That's mean that the centralization, as a quality, has to do not with the fact of being centralized in itself, but with the fact who is behind the centralization? That's correct?
Partly correct. Digital tokens of existing centralised money systems are acceptable to me because we have been using them for years (bank accounts, credit cards, phonecards, supermarket points...)
Where is the not correct part of my sentence?  Cheesy

It's not that it's incorrect, it's not capturing the "parent-child" relationship and the deterioration of decentralisation in a dynamic process.

I am not against a new centralised crypto created based on an existing centralised payment system, there is no change in centralisation. The crypto is merely an extention of the previous system because it's already centralised before, irrespective of "who".

I am against a decentralised crypto dynamically moving towards a centralised environment, also irrespective of "who".

Bitcoin is another case which have nothing to do with the entire phrase. Bitcoin is decentralized. In my phrase is told only for the various centralized cases.  Wink

That explains it. Yes, it does not apply to existing decentralised cryptos.  Smiley


A little hard for me to understand your explanations. My not native English and your "complicated" and "sophisticated" explanations make me to formulate in another way my part in bold.

It will be reliable for you a centralized digital coin (with the same or better qualities like bitcoin), created from an investment of one rich person or group of peoples (investors) which will be not only the producers of it (will create and own the only pool or the various pools of mining of the digital coin) but even its owners? Do you use you such kind of digital coin if it will be in the market?
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1005
--Signature Designs-- http://bit.ly/1Pjbx77
That's mean that the centralization, as a quality, has to do not with the fact of being centralized in itself, but with the fact who is behind the centralization? That's correct?
Partly correct. Digital tokens of existing centralised money systems are acceptable to me because we have been using them for years (bank accounts, credit cards, phonecards, supermarket points...)
Where is the not correct part of my sentence?  Cheesy

It's not that it's incorrect, it's not capturing the "parent-child" relationship and the deterioration of decentralisation in a dynamic process.

I am not against a new centralised crypto created based on an existing centralised payment system, there is no change in centralisation. The crypto is merely an extention of the previous system because it's already centralised before, irrespective of "who".

I am against a decentralised crypto dynamically moving towards a centralised environment, also irrespective of "who".

Bitcoin is another case which have nothing to do with the entire phrase. Bitcoin is decentralized. In my phrase is told only for the various centralized cases.  Wink

That explains it. Yes, it does not apply to existing decentralised cryptos.  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1000
If there's a central controller of bitcoin, people will think someone is manipulating them when the price of bitcoin jumps. With a decentralized format, noone controls, and noone can manipulate.

Thanks for the comment.

Your answer have nothing to do with the words written at the main post. Please read it again (if you want) and give an answer to that post. This post ask abut something totally other and don't talk at all about the centralization of bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1000
If it is centralized, then those important things in its production can be changed. The decentralized nature of Bitcoin means that every node will make sure that every block follows the rules and don't change the rules of production. But if it is centralized, then that means that some central authority sets the rules and tells everyone else what the rules are, even if they don't like the rules. With decentralization, if I don't like the rules, I can change them or go with the old ones. With centralization, someones says "these are the rules and that's that" and no one else can change that. So that means that the central authority can change the rules at their own whim and everyone that uses their coin has to follow.

Thanks for the comment.

I agree with you that this might be possible. I have a question for you. Is this situation you mentioned in your comment possible for bitcoin? If the answer can be yes and bitcoin can be manipulated you will not have more faith in it. You have faith in it because you are sure that it CANNOT be manipulated. I am asking for this kind of coin. That CANNOT be manipulated. That's why I write in my main post: "This kind of coin, like bitcoin, is protected from the manipulation (from everyone and everything) from the technology which will produce it. In other words, no one can change its production (amount, time between amounts, its flow in the market). So no one can change these essential things that can make possible its manipulation."

Do you have to make any comments having in mind THIS kind of digital coin? Why this KIND of digital coin must not have the same status as bitcoin?
In my mind, a centralized coin is one where the miners are owned by one entity, the software is developed by that same entity, and the software is closed source. In this way, should that entity decide to change the rules, they release an update, send an alert informing all users that they need to upgrade. Since the software is closed source, they can pull the old binaries and then no one can downgrade unless they saved an old version. Even using an old version would block them from the rest of the network, so those on old versions can no longer do anything. Also since it is closed source, no one (except the entity) can know what exactly goes into the mining algorithm, so that people outside cannot mine. Or they are like some PoS coins where blocks are only valid if they are signed by a select group of people. This makes it so that the users of that coin have no say about anything regarding the coin, and thus people (here) don't like it.

Good but we are at the same point like before.  Cheesy I am asking about another kind of creation of the digital coin not like you mention in your second post. The not possible manipulated one. It is for that that I need your opinion. IF this kind of coin exist AND IS CENTRALIZED (from an technology that CANNOT be manipulated) what it will be your behavior? So, forget for the moment your meaning in your mind for the centralized coin and imagine this one given by me. You will like and accept it like bitcoin?
Such a coin cannot exist. A clone of bitcoin, by nature, is decentralized. Even with centralized development of a bitcoin clone, it isn't centralized. People can clone the software and essentially fork that coin away from the centralized developers, so it isn't centralized. You need to define what makes that coin centralized.

Let's tell that you are wrights for the first part in bold. I don't want to discuss about this your conviction because it is not interesting for the aim of this thread.

As for the second part in bold I am talking about a digital coin created after the study of the bitcoin and the blockchain. This new digital coin, that should be based at the best characteristics of the lasts ones, should be based on the peer to peer technology, should have the same qualities or even more better ones than bitcoin will be produced only in one point or several ones (can be to many) all owned by one person, a group of peoples or an Central Bank. That are the investors for every step mentioned above and for every point where this coin will be produced. And naturally, even its owners.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
Two heads are better than one.
If there's a central controller of bitcoin, people will think someone is manipulating them when the price of bitcoin jumps. With a decentralized format, noone controls, and noone can manipulate.
sr. member
Activity: 538
Merit: 250
If it is centralized, then those important things in its production can be changed. The decentralized nature of Bitcoin means that every node will make sure that every block follows the rules and don't change the rules of production. But if it is centralized, then that means that some central authority sets the rules and tells everyone else what the rules are, even if they don't like the rules. With decentralization, if I don't like the rules, I can change them or go with the old ones. With centralization, someones says "these are the rules and that's that" and no one else can change that. So that means that the central authority can change the rules at their own whim and everyone that uses their coin has to follow.

Thanks for the comment.

I agree with you that this might be possible. I have a question for you. Is this situation you mentioned in your comment possible for bitcoin? If the answer can be yes and bitcoin can be manipulated you will not have more faith in it. You have faith in it because you are sure that it CANNOT be manipulated. I am asking for this kind of coin. That CANNOT be manipulated. That's why I write in my main post: "This kind of coin, like bitcoin, is protected from the manipulation (from everyone and everything) from the technology which will produce it. In other words, no one can change its production (amount, time between amounts, its flow in the market). So no one can change these essential things that can make possible its manipulation."

Do you have to make any comments having in mind THIS kind of digital coin? Why this KIND of digital coin must not have the same status as bitcoin?
In my mind, a centralized coin is one where the miners are owned by one entity, the software is developed by that same entity, and the software is closed source. In this way, should that entity decide to change the rules, they release an update, send an alert informing all users that they need to upgrade. Since the software is closed source, they can pull the old binaries and then no one can downgrade unless they saved an old version. Even using an old version would block them from the rest of the network, so those on old versions can no longer do anything. Also since it is closed source, no one (except the entity) can know what exactly goes into the mining algorithm, so that people outside cannot mine. Or they are like some PoS coins where blocks are only valid if they are signed by a select group of people. This makes it so that the users of that coin have no say about anything regarding the coin, and thus people (here) don't like it.

Good but we are at the same point like before.  Cheesy I am asking about another kind of creation of the digital coin not like you mention in your second post. The not possible manipulated one. It is for that that I need your opinion. IF this kind of coin exist AND IS CENTRALIZED (from an technology that CANNOT be manipulated) what it will be your behavior? So, forget for the moment your meaning in your mind for the centralized coin and imagine this one given by me. You will like and accept it like bitcoin?
Such a coin cannot exist. A clone of bitcoin, by nature, is decentralized. Even with centralized development of a bitcoin clone, it isn't centralized. People can clone the software and essentially fork that coin away from the centralized developers, so it isn't centralized. You need to define what makes that coin centralized.
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1000
Then why hate the centralized bitcoin (if this could possible)? Nothing will change. Nothing cannot be manipulated on it (as I know).

Because a more centralised bitcoin increases the risk of control/shutdown/manipulation by a single authority. Transactions can be reversed and address blocked if a single authority controls a majority for the hashrate.

human nature is ambitious and vain, always want more and more, if this were not so, there should not be any problem on a centralized one, but this is not the case, that's why i quote that answer, because i really think is the main reason, we should fix "our own problems", before think that everything is good, posible and normal.

Thanks for the comment.

Totally agree with you. But if it will be not the human kind who will own the new (even better) "bitcoin" but the State (the Central Bank of the given country) itself what it will be your answer? The Central Bank of one country has very severe rules in the overall process of the creation and management of its money. At least administrative ones. Which cannot leave anyone to abuse even a little with everything which has to do with the money owned by it.

Accepting here (thing that is not accepted in the main post, but let's do an exception in this case) that the human kind is be able to manipulate the technology of production or other factors not allowed in the main post.

I had the answer of medUSA about this case. Now I want to understand if you will be fair in your answer or not. At least will be coherent as him in arguing your decisions and choices. Like you do in your post above. Wink

You never know what goes behind closed doors, which is why we need open source on everything. What we know is, corruption with public money is everywhere. Ben Bernakle can generate more money at will, the money supply is a joke, hyperinflation is destroying currencies world wide, trust in dollar is lost yearly. The model is flawed within itself. It's not really about central banks of specific countries, but big groups of countries, the big market movers... a president of a country can't do really nothing, he is subject to orders. See Greece, and coming soon Italy, Spain.. they are all subjected to superiors. It's a big pyramidal scheme. With Bitcoin no one has a clear power over the other, it's just a protocol that transfers value... this has never seen before ever in mankind, that is why it's a very hard pill to swallow.

Thanks for your comment.

I see a big rage in your words that prove the truth of one of my posts make here in this thread. I will suffice only with few words because I don't want to give moral to anyone. It is not this the aim of this thread. I don't see the world in such way. There are problems but the problems there were, there are and there will be always. This cannot make me fatalist or even nihilistic like I think it is your case.

I would like that you read the main post and give an answer to that case expressed there. It will be a pleasure for me to give you my thoughts after your answer to that case (if I will have to tell something).

As about the case of Greece (even this out the aim of this thread) this is not a problem only of the Governments of Greece but to all the people. I have made a comment in another thread about this case. It is not complete because there are to many other things than can be told but is enough to understand all the story of the last crisis there. If you like and if you want you can read it here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12727759
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1000
OP nobody is hating on possible centralized coins! We are just saying that this won't work and that they are wasting time, both governments and banks. At great end, we will all get to the point that people all over the world will just use decentralized solutions like Bitcoin.

Now it's their thing that they maybe see this as the only possible solution in order to not lose the complete control that they would lose if they would adopt decentralized solution.

So no, I don't hate on anybody. If nothing, these centralized solutions will prepare the population all over the world for the digital age. They will lay the infrastructure for us and instead of us.

Thanks for the comment.

You are saying that I am telling lies? Please read some of the posts in this thread.

Maybe you prefer "don't love", "are unsatisfied", "don't like", "don't prefer", "don't want", "fight", want to eliminate", "want to avoid", "want to not exist", "is a nightmare".

Are to many the other similar words that I don't remember and are to many to be used in a post. And all those, told with one only word, are "hate".



I don't think too many people hate them. People just don't understand why they need to reinvent the wheel when there is already a technology that works and in our opinion works better and it's more sustainable long-term than what they will create.

Also I can understand where the disliking is coming from some of the people on this forum. If someone don't like you than most probably you won't like him back. It's just how it goes in life.

I personally don't hate anybody and I even think that they are doing us a favor long-term by laying infrastructure instead of us and teaching people how to send transactions and use wallets instead of us.

Good. This kind of answer have meaning for me.

I have to tell only something about your bolded thoughts. If the human kind would be satisfied with the existing inventions we shall be yet in the time of the wheel mentioned by you. In other words if we will be happy with something we have and a priory will reject any other new thing without analyze that, at least, bitcoin would be yet only in the white paper of Satoshi, we will write everything only with or hands and go at work only walking. This only for the theory.

As for my post I asked about something I know they hate (from numerous posts read by me and various expressions written in to many ways but that in essence can be named as "hate") and not only for the coin. The users of this forum don't hate the new coin but the centralized one. I asked about the centralization and then for the coin. They connect the centralization (maybe have right) with the abuse, the corruption, the manipulation, the injustice and other unpleasant things had from the governments or various authorities in their countries. At least this is my guess. This their big problem are spreed even in the kind of coin they love. Not without reason I write clear and without any equivoque THE SECURITY OF PRODUCTION of this coin and not without reason give to this coin the same qualities like bitcoin. The only difference is being centralized the first and decentralized the second.

Normally if they like bitcoin have no reason to not love the second one. Who cares if have owner or not. If it is the same product and nothing change from bitcoin why not like it like bitcoin? Make no sense. The only reasonable answer TO MY POST must be: If are the same thing normally I would like it. Maybe (or for sure) bitcoin a little more because I am affectionated to it (and will give to it more support always because of this) but I would like and use even the second one because have the same qualities. Are the qualities which make the people like bitcoin. Cannot dislike the same qualities have from another product clone of bitcoin. Repeat: have no sense.

But almost no one has answered to my post. Or only partially. Everyone has answered to his post: the post in him's mind. Giving and making free interpretations connected with their hypothetical coin (or its production, or their conception of centralization) in their mind.

This is a big problem. If I want to know something I have not the answer of that I write but the answer of that the poster has in his mind about that something that I have write. This is really a big problem.



Exactly, specially this part:

Quote
People just don't understand why they need to reinvent the wheel when there is already a technology that works and in our opinion works better and it's more sustainable long-term than what they will create.

Reminds me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lskpNmUl8yQ

When Letterman goes like "Oh but we have Radio, why would anyone need Radio over the internet".
People is so stupid and not prone to predict big technological shifts, that's why there will always be elites and that's why there will always be people crying that they aren't millionaires. "They don't deserve all that money". Well, if you predicted that this thing would be insanely valuable in the future instead of bashing it, you would be rich too, but you are a sheep. What's what they don't seem to understand.

Thanks for intervention.  Cheesy

First of all I'm so sorry but I cannot understand the spoken English. I'm able to communicate in English only writing. So cannot taste the video. But are enough your words to understand what the video can tell. No need to give other answer about my post. I thank you again for your comments. Feel free to comment everything in this thread or other my threads (including and firstly my thoughts). I will be happy to read what you will write. And probably to answer to you (if I will have something to tell).

legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1014
Then why hate the centralized bitcoin (if this could possible)? Nothing will change. Nothing cannot be manipulated on it (as I know).

Because a more centralised bitcoin increases the risk of control/shutdown/manipulation by a single authority. Transactions can be reversed and address blocked if a single authority controls a majority for the hashrate.

human nature is ambitious and vain, always want more and more, if this were not so, there should not be any problem on a centralized one, but this is not the case, that's why i quote that answer, because i really think is the main reason, we should fix "our own problems", before think that everything is good, posible and normal.

Thanks for the comment.

Totally agree with you. But if it will be not the human kind who will own the new (even better) "bitcoin" but the State (the Central Bank of the given country) itself what it will be your answer? The Central Bank of one country has very severe rules in the overall process of the creation and management of its money. At least administrative ones. Which cannot leave anyone to abuse even a little with everything which has to do with the money owned by it.

Accepting here (thing that is not accepted in the main post, but let's do an exception in this case) that the human kind is be able to manipulate the technology of production or other factors not allowed in the main post.

I had the answer of medUSA about this case. Now I want to understand if you will be fair in your answer or not. At least will be coherent as him in arguing your decisions and choices. Like you do in your post above. Wink

You never know what goes behind closed doors, which is why we need open source on everything. What we know is, corruption with public money is everywhere. Ben Bernakle can generate more money at will, the money supply is a joke, hyperinflation is destroying currencies world wide, trust in dollar is lost yearly. The model is flawed within itself. It's not really about central banks of specific countries, but big groups of countries, the big market movers... a president of a country can't do really nothing, he is subject to orders. See Greece, and coming soon Italy, Spain.. they are all subjected to superiors. It's a big pyramidal scheme. With Bitcoin no one has a clear power over the other, it's just a protocol that transfers value... this has never seen before ever in mankind, that is why it's a very hard pill to swallow.
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1000
Thanks for the comment.

you are welcome, is a pleasure for me to give you my reply.


But if it will be not the human kind who will own the new (even better) "bitcoin" but the State (the Central Bank of the given country) itself what it will be your answer?

but here you got the problem again, banks controlled by humans... in the end you will have the same problem. who believe on banks for example? do you really think that they will not create rules who benefits them?

well you can think that people can decide if the "new" rules from banks are fair or not in this case, but just look at how it works now, everybody know that fiat money is the big ponzi scheme out there and we still using it...

that's the main problem, people are so chastened about corruption that they don't believe on anything.

how can we solved it? i mean, how people can start to realize that a centralized one is not bad?

hard to say,but maybe if they didn't get any benefit and be 100% transparent about it, maybe then, people would start to believe on it, for example...



I had the answer of medUSA about this case. Now I want to understand if you will be fair in your answer or not. At least will be coherent as him in arguing your decisions and choices. Like you do in your post above. Wink

i hope that my new reply satisfy you now Wink

You are not the only. Are almost all they who make posts in this thread or everywhere in bitcointalk (even out of this forum) and are convinced that everything is wrong, manipulated, bad or near the end.

To tell the right I am not one of the above. I have to many reserves about to many things but being fatalist is something that do bad only to the person who believe this. You ask if I believe in the banks. Yes, I believe. I am very satisfy with my bank even are to many things that can be better. But this don't made me to tell that everything on it is bad.

You tell that banks make the rules as they want.

First you must know that the rules (the important ones) of the commercial banks (that's the name of banks mentioned by you) are made by the Central Banks (which have not any interest in any of the commercial banks) which not only make these, but even, and above all, control their application continuously (is one the main duty of the Central Banks to do rules and to control the correct application of those in every commercial banks).

Second do you have any idea what kind of mess and crisis can have a country if the banks have the behavior you mentioned in your post? Do you have any idea of the real anarchy and chaos will cause their supposed by you behavior in all the country? Do you know that even if it will be only partially like you mention in your post EVERY STATE in the world will bankrupt within 24 hours?

The commercial banks work with money and from money their have money. So it is natural that they think for themselves first. Like you do when you do something that can make profit for you. Even this is normal. But to pretend that the banks make the rules like they want (if made by these) this cannot be never true. Because at least will be punished by the market. The concurrence from the others banks ar the customers. I will stop here for this problem because it is not this the aim of this thread.

I had your answer about my previous post and I want to turn back to the aim of this thread. Please read the main post and answer to this post. Remember: The human manipulation in the case given at the main post is excluded. So, in other words, the human being can do nothing, even if will have this desire. It is the technology which rule and this technology cannot be manipulated.

If you want, I have the curiosity to have your answer to the main post.  
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
OP nobody is hating on possible centralized coins! We are just saying that this won't work and that they are wasting time, both governments and banks. At great end, we will all get to the point that people all over the world will just use decentralized solutions like Bitcoin.

Now it's their thing that they maybe see this as the only possible solution in order to not lose the complete control that they would lose if they would adopt decentralized solution.

So no, I don't hate on anybody. If nothing, these centralized solutions will prepare the population all over the world for the digital age. They will lay the infrastructure for us and instead of us.

Thanks for the comment.

You are saying that I am telling lies? Please read some of the posts in this thread.

Maybe you prefer "don't love", "are unsatisfied", "don't like", "don't prefer", "don't want", "fight", want to eliminate", "want to avoid", "want to not exist", "is a nightmare".

Are to many the other similar words that I don't remember and are to many to be used in a post. And all those, told with one only word, are "hate".



I don't think too many people hate them. People just don't understand why they need to reinvent the wheel when there is already a technology that works and in our opinion works better and it's more sustainable long-term than what they will create.

Also I can understand where the disliking is coming from some of the people on this forum. If someone don't like you than most probably you won't like him back. It's just how it goes in life.

I personally don't hate anybody and I even think that they are doing us a favor long-term by laying infrastructure instead of us and teaching people how to send transactions and use wallets instead of us.

Good. This kind of answer have meaning for me.

I have to tell only something about your bolded thoughts. If the human kind would be satisfied with the existing inventions we shall be yet in the time of the wheel mentioned by you. In other words if we will be happy with something we have and a priory will reject any other new thing without analyze that, at least, bitcoin would be yet only in the white paper of Satoshi, we will write everything only with or hands and go at work only walking. This only for the theory.

As for my post I asked about something I know they hate (from numerous posts read by me and various expressions written in to many ways but that in essence can be named as "hate") and not only for the coin. The users of this forum don't hate the new coin but the centralized one. I asked about the centralization and then for the coin. They connect the centralization (maybe have right) with the abuse, the corruption, the manipulation, the injustice and other unpleasant things had from the governments or various authorities in their countries. At least this is my guess. This their big problem are spreed even in the kind of coin they love. Not without reason I write clear and without any equivoque THE SECURITY OF PRODUCTION of this coin and not without reason give to this coin the same qualities like bitcoin. The only difference is being centralized the first and decentralized the second.

Normally if they like bitcoin have no reason to not love the second one. Who cares if have owner or not. If it is the same product and nothing change from bitcoin why not like it like bitcoin? Make no sense. The only reasonable answer TO MY POST must be: If are the same thing normally I would like it. Maybe (or for sure) bitcoin a little more because I am affectionated to it (and will give to it more support always because of this) but I would like and use even the second one because have the same qualities. Are the qualities which make the people like bitcoin. Cannot dislike the same qualities have from another product clone of bitcoin. Repeat: have no sense.

But almost no one has answered to my post. Or only partially. Everyone has answered to his post: the post in him's mind. Giving and making free interpretations connected with their hypothetical coin (or its production, or their conception of centralization) in their mind.

This is a big problem. If I want to know something I have not the answer of that I write but the answer of that the poster has in his mind about that something that I have write. This is really a big problem.



Exactly, specially this part:

Quote
People just don't understand why they need to reinvent the wheel when there is already a technology that works and in our opinion works better and it's more sustainable long-term than what they will create.

Reminds me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lskpNmUl8yQ

When Letterman goes like "Oh but we have Radio, why would anyone need Radio over the internet".
People is so stupid and not prone to predict big technological shifts, that's why there will always be elites and that's why there will always be people crying that they aren't millionaires. "They don't deserve all that money". Well, if you predicted that this thing would be insanely valuable in the future instead of bashing it, you would be rich too, but you are a sheep. What's what they don't seem to understand.
legendary
Activity: 1401
Merit: 1008
northern exposure
Thanks for the comment.

you are welcome, is a pleasure for me to give you my reply.


But if it will be not the human kind who will own the new (even better) "bitcoin" but the State (the Central Bank of the given country) itself what it will be your answer?

but here you got the problem again, banks controlled by humans... in the end you will have the same problem. who believe on banks for example? do you really think that they will not create rules who benefits them?

well you can think that people can decide if the "new" rules from banks are fair or not in this case, but just look at how it works now, everybody know that fiat money is the big ponzi scheme out there and we still using it...

that's the main problem, people are so chastened about corruption that they don't believe on anything.

how can we solved it? i mean, how people can start to realize that a centralized one is not bad?

hard to say,but maybe if they didn't get any benefit and be 100% transparent about it, maybe then, people would start to believe on it, for example...



I had the answer of medUSA about this case. Now I want to understand if you will be fair in your answer or not. At least will be coherent as him in arguing your decisions and choices. Like you do in your post above. Wink

i hope that my new reply satisfy you now Wink
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1000
Then why hate the centralized bitcoin (if this could possible)? Nothing will change. Nothing cannot be manipulated on it (as I know).

Because a more centralised bitcoin increases the risk of control/shutdown/manipulation by a single authority. Transactions can be reversed and address blocked if a single authority controls a majority for the hashrate.

human nature is ambitious and vain, always want more and more, if this were not so, there should not be any problem on a centralized one, but this is not the case, that's why i quote that answer, because i really think is the main reason, we should fix "our own problems", before think that everything is good, posible and normal.

Thanks for the comment.

Totally agree with you. But if it will be not the human kind who will own the new (even better) "bitcoin" but the State (the Central Bank of the given country) itself what it will be your answer? The Central Bank of one country has very severe rules in the overall process of the creation and management of its money. At least administrative ones. Which cannot leave anyone to abuse even a little with everything which has to do with the money owned by it.

Accepting here (thing that is not accepted in the main post, but let's do an exception in this case) that the human kind is be able to manipulate the technology of production or other factors not allowed in the main post.

I had the answer of medUSA about this case. Now I want to understand if you will be fair in your answer or not. At least will be coherent as him in arguing your decisions and choices. Like you do in your post above. Wink
legendary
Activity: 1401
Merit: 1008
northern exposure
Then why hate the centralized bitcoin (if this could possible)? Nothing will change. Nothing cannot be manipulated on it (as I know).

Because a more centralised bitcoin increases the risk of control/shutdown/manipulation by a single authority. Transactions can be reversed and address blocked if a single authority controls a majority for the hashrate.

human nature is ambitious and vain, always want more and more, if this were not so, there should not be any problem on a centralized one, but this is not the case, that's why i quote that answer, because i really think is the main reason, we should fix "our own problems", before think that everything is good, posible and normal.
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1000
ive been reading all this and you guys are makeing me to change a bit opinion the centrilized its just for rich but govs can take control even into un and europe i mean the taxes and the connection to banks will be bigger and btc price will rise but more diff to be anon and the core can be changed soo i stick to the btc as it is now never change just grow until 2020 then will see.

Thanks for the comment anthonycamp.

I'm sorry to not give my opinions to you because both us are a little out in English. So, a little you and a little me, make possible my inability to understand well your thoughts. And without this kind of understand I cannot give opinions about those.  Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
ive been reading all this and you guys are makeing me to change a bit opinion the centrilized its just for rich but govs can take control even into un and europe i mean the taxes and the connection to banks will be bigger and btc price will rise but more diff to be anon and the core can be changed soo i stick to the btc as it is now never change just grow until 2020 then will see.
Pages:
Jump to: