Topic: It's ok to love the decentralized bitcoin but why hate the centralized one? - page 2. (Read 2758 times)

Where is the not correct part of my sentence?  

Let me explain better. I wanted to tell exactly that you tell in the first part but in the second I had another aim and another meaning. If behind the digital coin could be an unknown group of peoples (or only one rich person) for you and create this coin (closed or open source this is not the problem in this case) you will believe this coin? I think not because behind this coin is something that has not your trust: you don't know who are they. This case is the case when we have e centralized digital coin (group of people who own this coin, or even one rich person) and you normally cannot trust this digital coin. So who is behind the digital coin is very important for you (and for everyone I think). This is the case bolded by you in my phrase and its meaning (what i wanted to tell with it).

It's ok now?  

Bitcoin is another case which have nothing to do with the entire phrase. Bitcoin is decentralized. In my phrase is told only for the various centralized cases.  

A national currency is already centralised. My trust towards these government centralised crypto(s) comes from the government who issued them, the same trust I give to their fiat counterpart.


Partly correct. Digital tokens of existing centralised money systems are acceptable to me because we have been using them for years (bank accounts, credit cards, phonecards, supermarket points...)

A centralised crypto based on a centralised national currency offers no difference in central control. If I am already using that fiat for years, I have no problem with that centralised national crypto. When I put my savings into a bank, I have to trust that bank. The bank then issues this centralised bank crypto, the trust I have with the bank is transferred to that crypto. Same with credit cards.

Bitcoin is different. It has no trust to inherit from. That's why decentralisation is so important for bitcoin. Decentralised hash power and blockchain invokes trust in a trustless environment.

I like more and more your answers. Are reasonable and full with truth. Really, thank you to much for giving your thoughts in this thread. I want to clarify only one thing with you. You don't like any kind of the centralization except the governative/central banks one? Or in other words. You tell that you have no problem to use a national digital coin which will be a centralized product. Then don't like the centralization as a quality in all the other option given below. That's mean that the centralization, as a quality, has to do not with the fact of being centralized in itself, but with the fact who is behind the centralization? That's correct?

Good. This kind of answer have meaning for me.

I have to tell only something about your bolded thoughts. If the human kind would be satisfied with the existing inventions we shall be yet in the time of the wheel mentioned by you. In other words if we will be happy with something we have and a priory will reject any other new thing without analyze that, at least, bitcoin would be yet only in the white paper of Satoshi, we will write everything only with or hands and go at work only walking. This only for the theory.

As for my post I asked about something I know they hate (from numerous posts read by me and various expressions written in to many ways but that in essence can be named as "hate") and not only for the coin. The users of this forum don't hate the new coin but the centralized one. I asked about the centralization and then for the coin. They connect the centralization (maybe have right) with the abuse, the corruption, the manipulation, the injustice and other unpleasant things had from the governments or various authorities in their countries. At least this is my guess. This their big problem are spreed even in the kind of coin they love. Not without reason I write clear and without any equivoque THE SECURITY OF PRODUCTION of this coin and not without reason give to this coin the same qualities like bitcoin. The only difference is being centralized the first and decentralized the second.

Normally if they like bitcoin have no reason to not love the second one. Who cares if have owner or not. If it is the same product and nothing change from bitcoin why not like it like bitcoin? Make no sense. The only reasonable answer TO MY POST must be: If are the same thing normally I would like it. Maybe (or for sure) bitcoin a little more because I am affectionated to it (and will give to it more support always because of this) but I would like and use even the second one because have the same qualities. Are the qualities which make the people like bitcoin. Cannot dislike the same qualities have from another product clone of bitcoin. Repeat: have no sense.

But almost no one has answered to my post. Or only partially. Everyone has answered to his post: the post in him's mind. Giving and making free interpretations connected with their hypothetical coin (or its production, or their conception of centralization) in their mind.

This is a big problem. If I want to know something I have not the answer of that I write but the answer of that the poster has in his mind about that something that I have write. This is really a big problem.

Any government or bank can create their won centralised coin based on the blockchain technology. It's the same as the ones and zeros in my online banking account, or my payment card for public transport. The only difference is the "database" working in the background. Credit Cards are digital representation of many national currencies, I have no problem with that being centralised.


Because a more centralised bitcoin increases the risk of control/shutdown/manipulation by a single authority. Transactions can be reversed and address blocked if a single authority controls a majority for the hashrate.


That's correct, pool owners can collude to create this "centralised cartel" and manipulate transactions. This will be damaging. The good news is they do not have incentive (yet) to collude because as soon as they were found out, those pools will loose hashrate and could result in their demise.


Trust in Bitcoin will be damaged if it became centralised. What else will be upholding the value of Bitcoin if this trust is jeopardised?

Thanks for the comment.

There are to many things to discus in your post but I will leave those because are out of the aim of this thread. I'm answering only to those which can do with it.

A centralized digital coin (produced in the way mentioned in man post) can work like a clock in the same way like the decentralized one. There are not any obstacle to realize this. If you know one or some it will be pleasure for to read those here written by you.

I don't see any quality in the "nature" of every kind of digital coin (produced in the way mentioned by me in my man post) which is against its being centralized. If you know some or even one such quality, I invite you to show me that (those). I will learn something new.

Where have you read (in any of my posts here) that the coin created and for the which are asked thoughts is "something that can be infinitely replicated or manipulated in any possible direction"? In this case you are talking for something that exist in your mind and not in my posts. I agree with you when you write that the "users must know that the system they're using can't be abused in that way otherwise they'll abandon it". But where have you found (in my writings) the possibility of the the existence of this option in the production of the digital coin about which I write in my pasts? Show me the phrase or the sentence. I'm obligated to tell that this is again in your mind and not in my words.

As for the last sentence, first, who told that the digital coin mentioned by me it will be made with closed source one, and second, why one closed source digital coin must be for sure and always manipulable, misused, etc. etc. To many software work excellently (or are the bests in the market) and rule the entire world even are not produced with open source (google, all the Microsoft products etc.). All they are centralized products. Why this mew one product supposed by me must be different from those?

And at the end: Have to tell something about THE MAIN POST (only for the things written there) and not for other free interpretations made from you? If yes, I will be happy to read those.

Good but we are at the same point like before.  I am asking about another kind of creation of the digital coin not like you mention in your second post. The not possible manipulated one. It is for that that I need your opinion. IF this kind of coin exist AND IS CENTRALIZED (from an technology that CANNOT be manipulated) what it will be your behavior? So, forget for the moment your meaning in your mind for the centralized coin and imagine this one given by me. You will like and accept it like bitcoin?

I don't think too many people hate them. People just don't understand why they need to reinvent the wheel when there is already a technology that works and in our opinion works better and it's more sustainable long-term than what they will create.

Also I can understand where the disliking is coming from some of the people on this forum. If someone don't like you than most probably you won't like him back. It's just how it goes in life.

I personally don't hate anybody and I even think that they are doing us a favor long-term by laying infrastructure instead of us and teaching people how to send transactions and use wallets instead of us.

Centralisation means one authority which also equals a single point of failure and the ability to control it.

How would a centralised coin that's incorruptible work? Where does the centralisation, or any need for one, come in? Who would create something like this?

If you want a money supply that can't be messed with then there's this really cool forum you should check out...

I think what attracts people to cryptocurrencies is the knowledge that there isn't a little guy behind a leather desk who can press a button and shut you down or debase your supply.

Due to their very nature, digital currencies and centralisation aren't ever going to be a happy mix. Trustlessness for something that can be infinitely replicated or manipulated in any possible direction is vital. Its users must know that the system they're using can't be abused in that way otherwise they'll abandon it. The only way that can work is with open source programs verifiable by everyone.

It depends on money supply.if there is fair,transparentsupply it is ok,we can see on altocin market,decantrelised currencys with like 50% premining in top 20 market cap currencys
and than with dpos launched
Now one of centralised currency is in beta test,but it is network,with fair supply,no computing supply ,and no premine
Centralised ,no centralised everyting is possible to fraud or runing fair way

In my mind, a centralized coin is one where the miners are owned by one entity, the software is developed by that same entity, and the software is closed source. In this way, should that entity decide to change the rules, they release an update, send an alert informing all users that they need to upgrade. Since the software is closed source, they can pull the old binaries and then no one can downgrade unless they saved an old version. Even using an old version would block them from the rest of the network, so those on old versions can no longer do anything. Also since it is closed source, no one (except the entity) can know what exactly goes into the mining algorithm, so that people outside cannot mine. Or they are like some PoS coins where blocks are only valid if they are signed by a select group of people. This makes it so that the users of that coin have no say about anything regarding the coin, and thus people (here) don't like it.

Thanks for the comment.

You are saying that I am telling lies? Please read some of the posts in this thread.

Maybe you prefer "don't love", "are unsatisfied", "don't like", "don't prefer", "don't want", "fight", want to eliminate", "want to avoid", "want to not exist", "is a nightmare".

Are to many the other similar words that I don't remember and are to many to be used in a post. And all those, told with one only word, are "hate".

OP nobody is hating on possible centralized coins! We are just saying that this won't work and that they are wasting time, both governments and banks. At great end, we will all get to the point that people all over the world will just use decentralized solutions like Bitcoin.

Now it's their thing that they maybe see this as the only possible solution in order to not lose the complete control that they would lose if they would adopt decentralized solution.

So no, I don't hate on anybody. If nothing, these centralized solutions will prepare the population all over the world for the digital age. They will lay the infrastructure for us and instead of us.

Thanks for the comment.

No one asked about the fiat money (the fiat money actually in circulation) but for a digital coin like bitcoin (in everything) but which is centralized and not decentralized like bitcoin. You mentioned in your post that are few things that work better with centralized system. Is (can be) this digital coin one of things that can work not better but normally with the centralized system (being centralized)?

Why i hate fiat ?

Because we have seen many proof that fiat is full of scam, corruption, manipulation, high fees & won't work without good central bank or government.
That's why i have fiat & love bitcoin because it's not manipulateable, has low fees & work without central bank or government.

But, it doesn't mean i hate anything centralized-based. There are few things which won't work with decentralized system or better with centralized system.

Thanks for the comment.

Sorry but I cannot well understand what you want to tell with your post. So I cannot give a sure comment (thoughts) about it.

Anyhow I'm trying to write something guessing your answer. If you think that "government can take the control of bitcoin" you are in big wrong. First who can be this government? There are more than 200 governments in all the world. Which one will (can) do this thing?

Leaving apart this I think that no one will be able to take the control of it. For several reasons. First of all because it is produced by all the world and no one can control the people who produce it. Then it will be hard to chose the government which will do this thing. Third this government must buy enormous amounts of bitcoin to be able to own really it and to use it as it want. Can be even other reasons that I can't know or that for the moment I don't remember.

Thanks for the comment.

You are one of the few which don't hate the centralized coin. So I have nothing to tell to you about my main post. But I want to know your opinion in a situation more particular. If the coin mentioned in the main post will be a national digital coin currency with legal status like the actual currency in your country (or even if can replace it) you will have the same behavior in confront of this new kind of "altcoin"?

Then why hate the centralized bitcoin (if this could possible)? Nothing will change. Nothing cannot be manipulated on it (as I know). So, if the owners of the pools can make an agreement to act together in the same way, what can (will) change with this? This can be "practically" the centralization of bitcoin. But, leaving apart the control of amount of fees for every transaction, they cannot control nothing else. Even if these fees will go very high, the people will  decrease the use of bitcoin and they will lose users. So the fees will be lowered again. So what other can damage the bitcoin if become centralized? This is what I want to understand in this my comment.

If a government ever launched a coin, it would absolutely not be anonymous, there would be no privacy at all.

I would ofcourse still accept my wages in it, if it was the accepted medium of exchange for my country, If anything to blend in as one of the sheep.

Most of my wealth will be in anonymous & decentralized crypto long before this scenario even becomes reality though.

Thanks for the comment.

I understand you point of view and accept it totally. But if both coins can (will) exist together (if this it will be possible) you will hate again the new one? If yes can you explain why?

thats precicely my point the fact of gov take over its might come to a btc tax but the rise price will be enourmouse soo even not anon the centrilizer banks can take control of it and make it go 1000$ and put some legitimacy on it a can take good care of any btc centrilized or decentrilzed as it is.