Topic: Jack Dorsey-Backed Lightning Labs Raises $10 Million - page 2. (Read 598 times)

I know some people are against the Lightning Network, but I think that it's not that bad. Sure, there are some centralization issues, and yes, it's not really Bitcoin (it's off-chain transactions). Apart from that, it's not user-friendly, and I heard that maintaining a channel might even be costly. But the way I see it, this is Bitcoin's best chance of processing micro-transactions and thus staying relevant for everyday life usage. So considering this, I believe it's good that this money has been raised, and they'll be able to work on improving the whole thing.

btc doesnt move
its on the blockchain..

whats moving on LN is millsats.. you know tokens of 12 decimal.
the interplay of funds in channel are millisat based

again you pretend that LN is not separate. you pretend that LN is btc associated by trying to off-play LN's specific feature

you add words like "supposed"to make it seem like its not used for other things and only a myth that its used for other things.
you are trying a little too hard to try making it sound like people are using LN to a high utility. sorry but if you take out all the factories LN is not used that much.
atleast try to understand whats best for bitcoin and not whats best for commercial interests of greedy profiteers

and yo keep trying to not even mention the flaws LN has..
all you seem to wnt to do is hype it up as something that deserves to be associated with bitcoin

its not ready for consumer use and will never and even you have to admit this will never have the same level of security as bitcoin.

so can you just turn your overpromoting PR campaign down a few levels and try being realisitic..

stop trying to make it look like bitcoin is useless and LN is what everyone needs and uses.. its not
its becoming too obvious that yo are somehow financially gaining from promoting certain commercialised groups rather than being completely honest and thoughtful about bitcoin
and yes i mean BITCOIN

Because people are primarily using LN to move BTC.  What you or I want to associate anything with is irrelevant.  People are USING it FOR their BITCOIN.

LTC Lightning has somehow dropped to a paltry ~220 nodes.

And 1ml.com seemingly can't even be bothered to track Vertcoin's usage anymore because it's apparently so insignificant.

Groestlcoin has 7 LN nodes.  And at least 3 of those look like the dev team.  Good luck finding someone you might need to pay on there.

So keep talking about all the "other coins" you can supposedly use Lightning with, but (as always) here in the real world (i.e. not your fantasy world of make-believe where you can't accept reality) it's not going to be very easy to make a payment using those other coins.  Learn network effects.

point people are trying to describe LN AS BITCOIN
is like saying EXCHANGES ARE BITCOIN
is like saying RIPPLE IS BITCOIN
is like saying VISA IS DOLLAR

sorry it aint.
LN is 12 decimal. LN has no blockchain. LN has no miners. LN is NOT bitcoin
funny thing is many altcoins have more things very similar to bitcoin yet you are the one very quick to call them out as not bitcoin.
yet something without  blockchain without mining without decentralised peer review of all transactions.. ou want to associate as bitcoin.

LN is broke. sorry but its not a consumer ready tool. so stop selling it as if its the same thing and should be treated as good as or treated better than bitcoin.
atleast take your fanboy desires for greedy riches out of your opinions and think of what people should know about what is truly bitcoin and what is a separate tool.

LN is not a sole unique feature for utility for only bitcoin. so drop treating it as a bitcoin buzzword. its actually harming bitcoins rep every time people lose funds on LN
(yep people do lose funds and yep even LN devs have.. which shows how broke it is)
LN does not deserve bitcoins fame and bitcoin should not give LN fame

Well, you can't have a free market and no corporation/financial institutions at the same time. Like, shortly after Bitcoin itself was created, centralized exchanges started emerging and now they hold a significant portion of supply and serve as gateway for many users. And we can't do anything about it on a protocol level, our best bet is to preach to newcomers and casuals how bad centralized companies are and that they should use decentralized alternatives.

Given that you been banned from posting in the Development and Technical section of the boards because you are renowned for spouting misleading nonsense, it might worth considering that your opinions on what is or isn't Bitcoin carry very little weight here. 

Keep repeating it as often as you like, every time you post. 
We'll keep pointing out that you're a malicious troll, every time you post.



You can live with people describing Lightning in a totally misleading and incorrect fashion?  Hmm.... no surprises there! 
It's almost as though you are encouraging people to spread misinformation to suit your lame propaganda war.   Pity you're losing.   



Exchanges are a tool for many currencies, do we have your approval to talk about those here on the forum? 
WebWallets are a tool for many currencies, do we have your approval to talk about those here on the forum? 
Payment Processors are a tool for many currencies, do we have your approval to talk about those here on the forum?

There are advantages and disadvantages to using those tools.  LN is no different.  But the simple fact is that you can use Lightning to make a transaction that results in you transferring the ownership of your BTC to an intended recipient.  There is absolutely no reason why we can't discuss doing so here.  Whine about it all you like, but there is nothing you can do to stop it.

firstly LN is not bitcoin.. yep worth emphasising every time i post on the topic
secondly.

LN is not a robust consumer ready payment network
LN is just a tool for many currencies. not just the bitcoin network and again it just is not bitcoin

i can live with people describing it as a visa for cryptocurrency just like visa is for fiat. but trying to say visa is fiat and LN is bitcoin.. is just nonsense

LN is much more vulnerable than even visa. heck its more vulnerable than having a joint bank account with your spouse
it also requires alot more crap involved to make it resemble reliable function like factories and watch towers.

i found so many flaws in LN when i tested it. that i gave up even trying to hint at some of the issues that needed addressing.
by the way. even the LN devs know some flaws so dont even try to say im just bias against it

im all for having something to make consumers life easier. but not at the price of tarnishing bitcoins status.
trying to call out that bitcoin is broken/flawed and people should use LN instead is the opposite of reality.

but my main gripe is pretending an inferior network is part of bitcoin.. just makes me feel those promoting it just want some buzzword recognition for greed. and dont actually care much to actually do anything positive for bitcoin(the real bitcoin network)

(Italics emphasis mine)

Uh, no, commercializing the Lightning Network would be a terrible idea. We must keep LN decentralized so stop large greedy corporations from controlling the fees.


I don't think we want a Visa network for bitcoin itself. This feels like they are taking LN and trying to shoehorn it on top of the bitcoin network. As franky1 said, LN has nothing to do with bitcoin.

And we all know what happened when people tried to increase the block size in an attempt to make bitcoin faster.

LN's supposed to be a way to validate your payment quickly hence the Lightning part of the name, but the group of nodes they are building will selectively choose which of everyone else's nodes to make a channel with cause there is corporate oversight dictating what they should be doing. Remember there are only 11,000 nodes and who knows how many nodes they will set up.

And if they become large enough they can attempt to force some of the other nodes with a legal document not to make LN channels with other nodes. So I think that corporations have no business touching Lightning Network. Please make money off of something else and leave development to the community.


LN isn't even ready yet and if they think "anybody can build on top of it ", why aren't they contributing to LN codebase to make it production ready?

right

Lightning is just Bitcoin transactions that use the built-in scripting language to make a contract enforced by Bitcoin's blockchain (and then many of these contracts are daisy-chained together such that they work together as a payments network between all of the individual parties to the contracts).

so there's no reason why the same scripting language (or some new feature added to the language) cannot be used to define a different type of contract that can be used to form a different payment network that is better than Lightning. You could say that this has already happened, as there are evolved versions of the Lightning style of contract that are currently in proposal form, whether we call them Lightning 2.0 (or whatever name) is a bit meaningless really

by your own wording it shows the hyping up
yousay that LN is not as strong as the main chain. but just look how you wrote it and think of it. you think that they are linked and part of each other.. especially with your extra words calling it a second layer.

LN IS NOT IN ANYWAY BITCOIN!!!!!!!
its a separate network
it has tokens of 12 decimals
it has no blockchain
it does not rely on community oversight/storage/checking

LN is not a sole feature of bitcoin. its not even a unique feature only for bitcoin
LN is not bitcoin

LN is a commercial service for many coins and is just using the fame of bitcoin

by shouting out the word layer makes you stupidly try to associate LN with bitcoin.. thus making noobs think because bitcoin is safe LN is safe.

sorry LN should not be assiociated with bitcoin and definetly should not be promoted as a bitcoin solution/feature

it has taken a few years for people to wise up that custodial services like exchanges are not bitcoin. and should not be treated as part of bitcoin. but treated as a custodial service.
but even now still stupid people think custodial services are bitcoiin
(take peter schiff's recent dumbness blaming bitcoin for his lack of understanding of how a custodial service works)


LN needs to back off the bitcoin waggon and stop stealing the 'trust' and security of bitcoin by pretending LN is in anyway like bitcoin

i dont min promoters saying LN is a cryptocurrency gateway network for fast payments. but trying to say its not a gateway but infact the same property/ land of bitcoin is stretching the truth a lil wide

LN is not bitcoin nor is it a layer or a feature of bitcoin
i got no problem with anyone wanting to have convenient ways to make money but to try making bitcoin itself harder and more expensive to use. and to make it appear as if bitcoin is broken purely to fame up another network like LN is shameful on many levels.

LN is not bitcoin
bitcoins features stop at locking a transaction into a block with a time limit
other networks can then create their own tokens pegged to the lock but that does not make them that currency it just makes them a pretend currency

i do find it funny how people still think  LN is bitcoin an can make bitcoin great.. yet not letting bitcoin expand while trying to divert people onto those other networks that are not bitcoin but pretend to be

You make it seem like the whole space is hyping up Lightning, which definitely isn't the case. In fact, I have seen more people on social media platforms speak out against Lightning.

I am excited about Lightning, but also acknowledge the fact that it by far can't provide the same level of security as the main chain, but that's not even the point. Lightning's main purpose is to facilitate micro payments where security isn't that much of a concern. The benefits of instant and near free payments greatly outweighs the risks people using Lightning are exposed to.

Also, Lightning is just one second layer. I'm confident that it will be one of the many in 5-10 years where people can choose what layer they use.

He may have personal, financial goals from his actions but Jack Dorsey really is pro BTC. I can’t fault his efforts to force BTC down the throats of average joe. Mainstream adoption is a lot more likely with people like him pushing.

in short Lightning labs wants to be the custodial FACTORY/WATCHTOWER business model. letting its users have offchain balance that lightning labs has power over.

bitcoin (yea bitcoin) doesnt have or need intermeiaries.
LN is not a layer of bitcoin.
LN is a separate network that MANY altcoins can use. its not a feature/added benefit unique to bitcoin.

if people actually stopped hyping up LN by bzzwording it beside bitcoin. yet it holds no of the unique features or benefits of bitcoin. then people would see how LN is just some commercial crap to grab peoples money for corporate profit.

Perhaps there will be a division between BTC core blockchain and all the second layer solutions (LN and other offchain solutions).LN and side-chains will be used mainly for retail purchases/online shopping,where lightning fast confirmation time is preferred,while the traditional BTC blockchain will be used for "investment" transactions only,which means that only the Bitcoin traders and investors will use it to send and receive BTC.
Maybe this is how Jack Dorsey sees the future of Bitcoin...

  Umm...  That can't be the actual name, right?
[/quote]
Sorry, I was talking to a friend when I wrote this topic so the words 😂😂 overlapped.
The entire article aims to make a comparison between the visa and the Bitcoin visa layer (LN.)

Here is the official Github repo for those who want to see it: https://github.com/lightninglabs/loop

And here is the official blog post: https://blog.lightning.engineering/announcement/2020/02/05/loop-beta.html. So that we won't get "lost in translation". 

For those who want to try their beta:

But using Lightning Lube is good for marketing purposes. They can draw attention and people will be curious about it.  It is time to shine for the LN and reach out more users. I am with this project! Hope they can really deliver their mission as they already have the funds in place.

My initial bet went on "lube" > "tube", but yeah loop sounds ...better?  Does it?

I know this is good for the crypto environment, I know that moving transactions to the LN is good, but whenever I hear companies throwing millions, and sometimes hundreds of mils in those project I can't shake a bad feeling about it.
It's like bitmain, they manufacture miners, more miners means less chance of an attack but at the same time...bitmain..d'oh!

Seems like they know what some people like me are wondering:


Anyhow, what I wish for is a utopia, sooner or later we will have a corporation and "new types" of financial institutions in every aspect of bitcoin.

That's great news. I knew Jack's interest in Bitcoin would yield some really nice results. Just few weeks ago, he was in Africa holding a bitcoin meetup, today, He's backing LN and supporting Bitcoin to go global. I have a good feeling that Mass adoption would be coming sooner than initially anticipated. Although a lot of people don't agree that Lightening Network is the solution to Bitcoin's bottleneck tx woes but I feel this might work. That said, let's say how Lightening Network moves on from here now that there's additional funding.

Yet another Bitcoin win 🕺

It is actually lightning loop.
When I started to do a search for lightning l..., it shows some pretty gross stuff. Then continued typing jack dorsey then I got to the right link.

"In addition to the capital raise, Palo Alto-based Lightning Labs today launched its first financial services product, Lightning Loop, to monetize the so-called “layer-two” technology that sits on top of the bitcoin blockchain by making it easier for startups to accept the cryptocurrency. With traditional bitcoin payments firms like Bitpay and Coinbase making significant headwinds in cryptocurrency payments using more traditional technology, the one-two punch of fundraising and a product launch using the more efficient Lightning is a positive sign for the network’s adoption."
From op's link: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/02/05/jack-dorsey-backed-lightning-labs-raises-10-million-to-build-visa-network-for-bitcoin