Topic: Javier Milei wins presidency in Argentina (Read 454 times)

I disagree. He is a text-book ultra-liberal. Many times these horses drink on the same bucket, because they both despise socialism and social democracy, but their agendas are different. Conservatism is absolutely ok with protectionism and tariffs, while ultra-liberals leave all to market and natural price formation.

In practice the alternance between the systems tends to do quite well for wealth creation / wealth distribution. In Argentina it is clearly time for wealth creation - not much left to distribute.

https://twitter.com/Milei_Explains/status/1728619598159749148

Milei explains basic economic literacy -- why tariffs are anti-capitalistic and inherently against the consumer.

Isolationists over recent years think using tariffs as leverage to force concessions out of adversaries is a dangerous thought process. It will always negatively impact the local economy.

Milei's a textbook conservative -- some of these phony conservative politicians could learn a thing or two from him.

I have not heard much complaining about how socialism "does not work" in Norway, Sweden, etc... So it must be something else. I have heard however that 30% of US population is not doing well with capitalism.

The problem is not Socialism (if you can call Socialism the EU versions of it), the problem is fiscal responsibility or lack of it. The first rule to share the wealth of a country among the people living in it is to actually be able to create such a wealth. Building pocket of captive voters by giving handouts is not socialism, it is pure negligence.

It is likely that some of the stronger measures taken by Milei are unconstitutional - such as restrictions on the right to protest.

Argentina needs a strong change, is not as much a problem of a big or small state is a problem of fiscal responsibility. Milei is using the shock doctrine manual - use a crisis to drive an agenda. He may succeed in bringing reform and a future government of opposite sign will need to undo part of it, depending on how it works.

We don't need more government. We need less government. What should be done in Argentina is the same thing that should be cone in the United States. Milei should enact the best foundational laws into all of Argentine Provinces, in such a way that those enactments can't be repealed, and then shut down the Argentine Federal Government. The governors of the Provinces have the ability to govern their own Province better than the Federal Argentine Government can.


Argentina's President Javier Milei Signs Decree Slashing 5,000 Government Jobs

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https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/argentinas-president-javier-milei-signs-decree-slashing-5000-government-jobs
Mr. Milei, an economist, signed a decree on Dec. 26 stating that his government won't renew contracts for the thousands of government workers hired since Jan. 1, according to reports.

However, the decree, which was published in the Official Gazette, includes exceptions, such as in cases in which workers were hired as part of "quotas regulated by law or other types of special protections," including those with disabilities and personnel who are considered "indispensable," according to Spanish newspaper El Pais.

The decree also noted that other government contracts made before 2023 will also undergo an "exhaustive review" in the next 90 days, according to the publication.

Overall, Mr. Milei's government estimates that more than 5,000 workers will lose their jobs, although the Association of State Workers (ATE), a workers union, anticipates some 7,000 employees could be affected.

Union Announces Planned Protests

In a statement on Dec. 26, ATE General Secretary Rodolfo Aguiar said the union planned to mobilize on Dec. 27 in various parts of the country to protest the decree.

"The workers in all cases perform tasks that are essential to guarantee the functioning of all areas of the state, regardless of the type of their contractual relationship," Mr. Aguiar said.

The protests will include strikes, mobilizations, assemblies, and roadblocks, he added.

"We state officials are going to deepen our fight plan. We cannot be accused of attacking governance. It is clear that social peace is being broken by a government that intends to leave thousands of families on the streets. It is by being on the street that we are going to stop the government's adjustments," Mr. Aguiar said.

"If the government moves forward with these layoffs, workers and families will be directly affected, but indirectly, the entire community will be affected. In the state, any dismissal translates into a loss of rights for all our people," he added.

Mr. Milei, 53, was inaugurated as Argentina's president on Dec. 10 after defeating Sergio Massa, economy minister for Alberto Fernández's socialist administration.
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They are already arguing that whatever Milei is trying to do in order to push his plan further is alledgely against the constitution of Argentina. I am not sure whether it is the case or not.
You know, that is how many times failed socialism works, it makes people to get used to cheap things in detriment of the national economy and the commercial balance, when a new administration comes in and tries to settle the things in s different way, those groups get very defensive. Even if Milie succeeded on stabilizing the value of the peso and the macroeconomics of the nation, it would still take future administrations and presidents to stick to the plan, so I am skeptical.
I had heard Milie indeed intended to sell the oil company of Argentina, but I am not sure whether that is a completely good idea, it would be ideal if he first tried to get associates in s different way than privatizing such an important sector for any country. Granted, Argentina is not Venezuela, but still oil is necessary to keep the lifestyle of the people in Argentina going, and depending on what he does with that industry, it could be the beginning of a monopoly or duopoly.

You are not very familiar with Argentina, are you?

Milei speaks of liberty, but he is not a libertarian.


Of course, Argentina under "Peronists" has been creating and promoting groups (e.g. unions) and keeping the provinces happy at the cost of increasing the debt and creating a subsidized economy. As I said in previous post, there is no way you can remove the handouts and transfers without making lots of these groups very angry. And make no mistake, these are powerful groups that will act with all the means at their disposal to stop reform.

For me, Milei has now to transition from the stupid dude with a chainsaw and a structural deficit of haircutting to a President -  which is much more difficult. My question is, given the stiff opposition he will get from many fronts, who is Milei going to ally with? The uber rich? The bankers? The Jews of US? The army? Who is going to be the strong arm of Milei? Who is going to be his cash cow?

Now that I think of it, the answer will be know when the official buyer of YPF (the national oil company) is known. Whoever wins it, that is Milei's puppetmaster / intimate friend /  ally.

Edited to add: Milei has signed a 27 points mega-decree that changes the governance of many aspects in Argentina. As of now, the opponents are making themselves be heard.

Let things be solved in such a way that people are unable to find anything to protest about unless his policy is misunderstood or outrightly hated, in which case the protest will be shortened or legally stopped for being unreasonable or done for no justifiable reason.
In merit-based system, the right heads in government institutions/organizations can actually turn things around for good if provided the needed support. Bloated workforce is one of issues the heads could effectively tackled.
Depending wholly on profit-driven so-called private sector does not work. There will always be some sort of interventions from governments in system that's becoming immoral to make sure everyone has enough of the good things of life they need.

This is an opportunity to let the world know that libertarianism is worth considering and can actually work if done right.

I read and also saw those news on Television this week,.on how the government of Milie wants to make clear that the right for protest in Argentina is not the same and is not supposed to be used as an excuse to block ways and highways in the country. His supporters of course will argue that it is reasonable to think that way, while several human right organizations and also some people related to the political left have suggested it is against the constitution of the country to impose restrictions on the capacity of the citizens to peacefully protest in their cities. I have also seen some suggesting these new sets of measurements are supposed to be a foreshadowing message of what lies ahead in the future with this government, of how those new in power know they are supposed to addopt many unpopular economical adjustments in order to try to rescue the economy, so some protests and civil unrest could follow.

I believe Milie is still better than the previous administrations Argentina had and there must be a very important movement of the political left to discredit Javier before he can even reach the first 100 days of government. Regardless of what one supports, I am still skeptical he will be able to do miracles and handover a rescued country by the end of his first term. The kind of rescue plan Argentina needs is one which takes several years of economical discipline and several serious administrations.

The interesting thing is that most folks seem to enjoy the ideals that Milei stands for.


Argentina Moves to Protect Itself from Leftist Violence as Javier Milei Reforms Economy

Click this link for a look at the comments in the article.

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https://www.breitbart.com/latin-america/2023/12/15/argentina-moves-protect-itself-leftist-violence-javier-milei-reforms-economy/
Patricia Bullrich – Milei's onetime presidential rival, now serving as Argentina's minister of security –promised in remarks to the public that law enforcement would use "force proportional to resistance" against anyone attempting to erect roadblocks or otherwise disrupt the daily lives of Argentines and ensure that any criminal actions be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

"The law cannot be abided by halfway – you either do or you don't," she said.
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Guys et all, once again we are way off-topic and dragged into and endless discussion about Trump. I would be ok if we were comparing, but you know who only wants to dump once again political propaganda.

Milei, which is the topic here, has above anything else a ultra-liberal agenda for the economy. The plan is feasible - get dollars for YPF, Aerolineas Argentinas and other state companies and dollarize the economy. If you ask me, the numbers are very difficult to match. You need a lot more US money to carry out the plan and remove the tariffs to export.

Also, the social movements may simply stop the reforms in its tracks - speaking for example of railways, transport and other unions that typically will oppose liberal reforms. There are interesting times ahead for Argentina, but I am see lots of social unrest which is quite dangerous in a country were the military had the power not long ago.

Are you aware that even high quality products by American technological companies are also manufactured abroad? Those products are designed in the United States but ultimately, they are made in Asia. If Trump managed to bring back those factories from Asia to USA, that would imply a important increase of the price of those products, because the salary of the workers in your country are obviously higher than a worker in Asia. Would you be willing to pay, let's say 50% more for your hardware and alike products for the sake of your co-citizens to have a good job?
It is easy to say you want more people in your country to have jobs, but it is a completely different thing when you get presented with higher prices for stuff previously done in China.

It would be a similar situation with democrats and inmigrants, it is easy to talk about letting people in, but it is another scenario to let people in your home.

Would you be willing to pay those prices, then?

Trump is simply trying to make American jobs for Americans in America. It's other countries that want to buy and sell with the US. Trump would regulate how it was done... to keep Americans from being harmed by other-country products and services. After all, the US can make anything it needs without other countries.

Nobody really knows what has made the US powerful. But it seems that American Democracy is part of it. Other countries should be happy if they are 'forced' into American Democracy style-wise. They might become powerful, too.

The Iran military man needed to be taken out.

So, Americans are left without jobs, and other-country 'junk' is imported, and other country people are forced into slave labor because many of those countries don't have Democracy. It's been going on for  long time... even before the Federal Reserve Bank took over the US money. Sure, there were some benefits all around at the time. But the main thing that this did was to slow down the greatness of the American people. It literally brought them into forms of slavery to the US government.

Actually. Keeping in mind the ideals Trump has when comes to bringing jobs to the United States from abroad, perhaps we could agree Trump has some isolationist ideas. Politically and military is almost imposible for the United States to keep an isolationist approach. It is a nation which has for long time tried to push and support the ideal of western democracy, as soon as a country starts to deviate from it the USA gets involved. It is the case of what happened to those African countries which suffered military coups.

Also, Trump pretty much bragged about being behind the politicak assassination of that important Iran military man back some years ago.
Perhaps, Trump does not realize that companies move their factories outside of USA nor because they want to hurt the American people with less jobs, it is about saving money by hiring cheap labor in Asia, and make cheaper consumption products.

Ukraine is fighting because it is "protectionism from Ruzzia"? do you understand what is protectionism? I mean, the definition, just the plain definition nothing deeper.

So, you think the US can make all products cheaper and better that anywhere else in the world without help from any other country?  Can you provide any supporting information for that or just one of those things you just say... you know... because "God tells you to".

Yes, I agree, you do not have a clue about Argentina, yet as usual it does not prevent you from polluting a thread about Milei with propaganda and ignorance.

Why do you think that Ukraine is fighting? It's protectionism from Russsia.

I don't know anything about Argentina's government, except that it is civil law country, not a common law country like the US. If they have juries in the courts down there, they aren't the same kind of juries and don't have the same kind of authority as in the US. This means that the whole government operation is different, even though it might look similar.

As long as a business remains in a State of the US states, without doing business over the borders, the Federal government has very little authority over it. Federal control comes when there is cross-border business, between States or internationally. The the Federal government acts, both to get tax money, and to regulate how the businesses benefit the States.

In the US, we can make any products that exist without help from other countries. And we can make them better and cheaper than other countries if we want. We don't need other countries. And it is the same with Argentina.

Essentially all inflation and devaluation come about from the money being used across borders. Look at the prosperity of the Amish, who generally don't do that kind of business, and often barter rather than using money at all.

Please, do not show your ignorance on this thread, you have many others to choose from.

When a country chooses protectionism it works for a while because the local industry takes over all the business. In the long term, the country looses productivity an people have to pay higher prices for the good and services. Inflation and devaluation are usual results of this.

I encourage you to just google a bit before throwing "views" and try to learn a bit about the world instead of repeating the same blabber all over the forum.

When a country farms its business out to other countries, the people of that country lose business. So, when Trump makes America great again through appropriate import-export taxes, he is simply bringing jobs and manufacturing back to America. It's good for the people, and it will be good for the business in the long run. Sure, there might be some upheaval in business for a while. But it's their own fault for going out of the country in the first place.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/08/22/trump-trade-tariffs/


https://taxfoundation.org/blog/donald-trump-10-percent-tariff/


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-08-24/supply-chain-latest-trump-proposes-universal-10-tariff


Milei:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-14/milei-s-plan-for-argentina-dollarization-and-scrapping-taxes
https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/argentina/javier-mileis-plan-for-argentina-dollarisation-scrapping-taxes-and-more.phtml

Lol. Trump isn't an isolationist at all! He wants MAGA, just like most of the average people of America and Argentina (for Argentina).

If the world can't live with MAGA America, it's the world that has become their own isolationists.

People are loosing sight of what the agendas are because they are just seeing two populist that SAY they are going to change the system, challenge the status quo, give more freedom to the people.

Yet their proposals are opposite: Trump wants the US to become more isolated economically, even proposing flat 10% tariffs for imports and questioning any trade deal. Milei is proposing pretty much the opposite - transitioning from a barrier-full economy, to a fully fledged free market. Their common ground is the image of "anti-establishment" -  which in the case of Trump is like a joke.