I am glad we found a way to solve this matter and this should be a reminder to everyone : There are many ways for you to be verified and many documents that will do just fine. The notarized documents are most of the time (for verified account) used in last resort when no other document can be sent.
So if you ever have problem when trying to be verified, just try to think out of the box and ask what can of document could be OK. Since we are working with many different countries we many not be always aware of what document you may have in your possession.
Topic: Jeers to mtgox (Read 3757 times)
There's a long list of things which aren't money that are covered by AML legislation.
Could you provide that list?
Quote
Money laundering very often involves using illicit money to buy items of value which are later sold to establish a "legitimate" trail for the money. What the items are is irrelevant to whether or not they're being used as a means of laundering money. They don't even have to be high value items.
From an AML compliance point of view, it's even more important to verify for Bitcoin withdrawals. In the case of withdrawals to bank accounts, at least the bank should have sufficient KYC information about their customer on record for the money trail to be followed if necessary. There's nothing inherent in a Bitcoin address which identifies it as belonging to a specific person or which easily allows the origin and destination of BTC going to and from that address to be determined.
From an AML compliance point of view, it's even more important to verify for Bitcoin withdrawals. In the case of withdrawals to bank accounts, at least the bank should have sufficient KYC information about their customer on record for the money trail to be followed if necessary. There's nothing inherent in a Bitcoin address which identifies it as belonging to a specific person or which easily allows the origin and destination of BTC going to and from that address to be determined.
I'm well aware of what money-laundering is.
The question is whether there are any AML laws giving mtgox the authority to indefinitely hold my coins just because I dont want to/can't pass/don't trust their verification procedures.
Note that in my hypothetical situation (I've finally been verified), I'm not withdrawing to cash anymore. I simply wanted my bitcoins back before I was verified.
BTC is not recognized as money by any country in the world so therefore doesn't fall under the purview of any AML laws I'm aware of.
There's a long list of things which aren't money that are covered by AML legislation. Money laundering very often involves using illicit money to buy items of value which are later sold to establish a "legitimate" trail for the money. What the items are is irrelevant to whether or not they're being used as a means of laundering money. They don't even have to be high value items.
From an AML compliance point of view, it's even more important to verify for Bitcoin withdrawals. In the case of withdrawals to bank accounts, at least the bank should have sufficient KYC information about their customer on record for the money trail to be followed if necessary. There's nothing inherent in a Bitcoin address which identifies it as belonging to a specific person or which easily allows the origin and destination of BTC going to and from that address to be determined.
After several PMs with mtgox_Alex. I was told my Car Insurance with me listed as one of the drivers was sufficient proof. I have submitted it and await my verification.
However, if I cannot notarize for whatever reason, they refuse to allow me to withdraw my BTC.
BTC is not recognized as money by any country in the world so therefore doesn't fall under the purview of any AML laws I'm aware of.
But IANAL. Any one with legal experience want to comment?
If there was a way to sticky a post...
Them asking for your notarized proof of identity to cash out BTC is perfectly reasonable.
However, if I cannot notarize for whatever reason, they refuse to allow me to withdraw my BTC.
BTC is not recognized as money by any country in the world so therefore doesn't fall under the purview of any AML laws I'm aware of.
But IANAL. Any one with legal experience want to comment?
To anyone else. BEFORE you move money to/from Gox, get your account verified!
If there was a way to sticky a post...
In Texas, notaries by law can't charge more than $6.
Them asking for your notarized proof of identity to cash out BTC is perfectly reasonable.
Them asking for your notarized proof of identity to cash out BTC is perfectly reasonable.
From their point of view this is a question of if this money is yours or your mums 
I fail to see why there is a need for residence information in my name as long as the address matches what is on my driver's license.
There are plenty of people in situations where their residence is not in their name.. spouses, siblings, roommates, people whose permanent address is different from their residence... etc.
For example, when I was doing my undergraduate degree, I paid my roommate via my bank account and he wrote out all the checks for the rent.
a notarized copy of the rental agreemant probably would have worked.
To anyone else. BEFORE you move money to/from Gox, get your account verified!
Hi
We received your Mother's ID but there is now way we can prove there is any connection with you, also, you did not forward us any letter from us... Please follow the direction that my colleagues sent you in order to remove any doubts.
Regards
We received your Mother's ID but there is now way we can prove there is any connection with you, also, you did not forward us any letter from us... Please follow the direction that my colleagues sent you in order to remove any doubts.
Regards
Coins are up ~25% since july 29. If coins are frozen, you have extra $$$ to get proper documents.
They were converted to $$$$$ before they were frozen -_-
Coins are up ~25% since july 29. If coins are frozen, you have extra $$$ to get proper documents.
Rules are rules and if we want to continue to offer Dwolla as a service we have to follow their TOS (related to Merchants).
I am not sure what my colleagues told you but have you considered the following : Ask you mother you write you a letter that state that you are living with her and send us a valid Copy or her ID like you did for your account? I am sure this can be done quickly and will solve your problem in a matter or hours.
Regards
I am not sure what my colleagues told you but have you considered the following : Ask you mother you write you a letter that state that you are living with her and send us a valid Copy or her ID like you did for your account? I am sure this can be done quickly and will solve your problem in a matter or hours.
Regards
They want a notarized copy, which I cannot get without paying money.
Have you asked? My bank offers to notarize documents free for account holders. If yours doesn't, ask around, open up a free checking at a bank that does, and voila (assuming MTG Alex's suggestion doesn't work).
Yes, I asked. I use Bank Of America with an eBanking account, and they do not offer teller/notary services for those types of accounts.
I'd rathar not open a bank account and keep a minimum balance and pay monthly fees just so that I can use notary services once every 5 years.
You don't have access to a notary?
If you use dwolla, you use a bank, and most if not all banks have a notary on staff.
If you use dwolla, you use a bank, and most if not all banks have a notary on staff.
Costs money to get things notarized.
Have you asked? My bank offers to notarize documents free for account holders. If yours doesn't, ask around, open up a free checking at a bank that does, and voila (assuming MTG Alex's suggestion doesn't work).
From their point of view this is a question of if this money is yours or your mums
I fail to see why there is a need for residence information in my name as long as the address matches what is on my driver's license.
There are plenty of people in situations where their residence is not in their name.. spouses, siblings, roommates, people whose permanent address is different from their residence... etc.
For example, when I was doing my undergraduate degree, I paid my roommate via my bank account and he wrote out all the checks for the rent.
I totally agree and for most domestic transactions it should be ok. However once you start to play internationally it's a whole different ballgame with rules being rules for the sake of rules. And to some extent that is reasonable enough given the current state of terrorism etc atm.
It sucks getting caught up in it. I'm British but live in China currently in my eighth year here and trust me that makes for a jungle of shitty paperwork I have 10+ kg of shitty aml and other nonsense paperwork sitting in a safe here curtsey mainly the "war on terror". For paperwork here I have to go to a notary then the foreign ministry for "legalization" and then to the embassy etc to submit documents and from what I hear US citizens here have it even worse.
EDIT Looks like Mt Gox beat me to it
move out of your mom's basement and get your own mail in your own name.
Thats just trolling
depends on how old he is...
Starting Jul 29, I've been trying to convert my BTC to Dwolla. I've already been verified with Dwolla for about 2 months now.
Mtgox requires identity and apparently "residence" verification in the US.
I've provided my TX Driver's License and cellphone bill in my mother's name, as she is the one who pays the bills. The address on both match.
Mtgox denied the application saying the names don't match and asked me to get a notarized and signed document saying I live at the address.
I do not have access to a notary and I cannot wait 3 weeks+ for registered mail to my house so I can get that code.
I uploaded my mom's TX driver's license (which match both my driver's license and the cell phone bill's address).
Mtgox has been unresponsive to emails with this situation and when I try to withdraw the coins back into my own wallet, the coins are frozen because my account is under "review".
How else can I prove in a timely fashion that I live in that address and that I'm not a money-launderer?
Mtgox requires identity and apparently "residence" verification in the US.
I've provided my TX Driver's License and cellphone bill in my mother's name, as she is the one who pays the bills. The address on both match.
Mtgox denied the application saying the names don't match and asked me to get a notarized and signed document saying I live at the address.
I do not have access to a notary and I cannot wait 3 weeks+ for registered mail to my house so I can get that code.
I uploaded my mom's TX driver's license (which match both my driver's license and the cell phone bill's address).
Mtgox has been unresponsive to emails with this situation and when I try to withdraw the coins back into my own wallet, the coins are frozen because my account is under "review".
How else can I prove in a timely fashion that I live in that address and that I'm not a money-launderer?
Rules are rules and if we want to continue to offer Dwolla as a service we have to follow their TOS (related to Merchants).
I am not sure what my colleagues told you but have you considered the following : Ask you mother you write you a letter that state that you are living with her and send us a valid Copy or her ID like you did for your account? I am sure this can be done quickly and will solve your problem in a matter or hours.
Regards
From their point of view this is a question of if this money is yours or your mums
I fail to see why there is a need for residence information in my name as long as the address matches what is on my driver's license.
There are plenty of people in situations where their residence is not in their name.. spouses, siblings, roommates, people whose permanent address is different from their residence... etc.
For example, when I was doing my undergraduate degree, I paid my roommate via my bank account and he wrote out all the checks for the rent.
When you submitted id for two different people you raised a redflag in the AML system and they are required to freeze everything until this has been cleared up.
Unfortunately that means requiring documents level "better" than what you initially submitted.
From their point of view this is a question of if this money is yours or your mums And they're required by law to know exactly whose funds they are 
Unfortunately that means requiring documents level "better" than what you initially submitted.
From their point of view this is a question of if this money is yours or your mums
And they're required by law to know exactly whose funds they are move out of your mom's basement and get your own mail in your own name.
I dont live in the basement thanks. I am doing graduate school work here (with a fellowship) and I pay rent.
Wow ... that's interesting. So was your account just fine until you requested to be verified?
If that is the case, then the recommendation for anyone thinking about verifying should first then withdraw funds from Mt. Gox so that there is a zero balance in both their BTC and USD (or whatever) accounts and only then go through the verification process.
If that is the case, then the recommendation for anyone thinking about verifying should first then withdraw funds from Mt. Gox so that there is a zero balance in both their BTC and USD (or whatever) accounts and only then go through the verification process.
Correct. As soon as I started the verification process I could no longer withdraw anything from my account. I would think they would at least have a button to cancel verification and let me get my bitcoins back, but apparently not -_-
Your advice is exactly what I would do if I had to go through verification procedures with another exchange.
You don't have access to a notary?
If you use dwolla, you use a bank, and most if not all banks have a notary on staff.
If you use dwolla, you use a bank, and most if not all banks have a notary on staff.
Costs money to get things notarized.
You don't have access to a notary?
If you use dwolla, you use a bank, and most if not all banks have a notary on staff.
Most of them charge $20 for a stamp, too.If you use dwolla, you use a bank, and most if not all banks have a notary on staff.
What he gave them should have been sufficient.
Thanks for posting this thread. MtGox does not feel like they need to hire more people to deal with their customer service volume. Answer = MOVE TO OTHER EXCHANGES. Enough is enough.
You don't have access to a notary?
If you use dwolla, you use a bank, and most if not all banks have a notary on staff.
If you use dwolla, you use a bank, and most if not all banks have a notary on staff.
move out of your mom's basement and get your own mail in your own name.
Thats just trolling
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