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Topic: JOIN OR DIE! United We Stand... Divided We Fall! - page 2. (Read 2635 times)

hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 504

I understand Bitshares perfectly.  Because you use "approval voting", a very small minority of the wealthiest shareholders can effectively rig all the delegate elections in their favor, thus controlling the entire Bitshares ecosystem.  This is Corporatism.  The delegates (aka business interests) of the Bitshares plutocracy are funded by forced wealth redistribution carried out via taxation (aka inflation) without representation.  This is Communism.  Corporatism / Communism is not free market capitalism.


And a very small (but slightly bigger) group of small stakeholders can unite overrule them!

The project is run by the 101 people most trusted by those who own the shares.
The only people who own the shares are those who agree that they want to own something that can fund its own growth.
Those who don't like the direction of the majority are free to sell, and are thus not coerced to have any of their wealth redistributed.
(Votes control what the future dilution rate will be and anyone is free leave in 10 seconds, before it can happen to them.)
... or move into bitAssets which are not affected by the the tiny core asset issue rate (about a quarter percent total over the past 5 months).

Compare that to Bitcoin.  How many small stakeholders does it take to overrule the top two mining enterprises?  What about the 10% annual dilution that is burned unnecessarily by its miners?

How is Bitcoin handling such issues these days?  
BitShares is explicitly designed to avoid the very problems Bitcoin is experiencing right now:

hero member
Activity: 729
Merit: 502
Nice thread, I'm enjoying it Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1042
White Male Libertarian Bro
Actually, companies are generally formed as a way to pool resources so that they can accomplish something bigger than the individual members could do otherwise.  Some bring ideas.  Some bring talent.  And some bring cash.  All are necessary to the success of the company and owning shares is a way to keep track of relative contributions and to proportionally distribute the rewards of success.

Yes, you can build a big company and it can become evil like any human-run institution of any type.  
But the core idea of a company as a way to organize pooled resources is neither good nor evil.

Placing overly-generalized labels on things limits you to the minor leagues in the arena of ideas.

Smiley

Stan, I don't have a problem with corporations.  I have a problem with corporations which attempt to control entire economic systems to monopolistic ends.  Monopoly is the menace of free enterprise.

Then you don't understand the BitShares Ecosystem. 
Every business built on BitShares is independent.
Think of BitShares as a shopping mall that provides common services like utilities, internet, and parking lots for independent businesses who move in to take advantage of an environment in which they can prosper.


I understand Bitshares perfectly.  Because you use "approval voting", a very small minority of the wealthiest shareholders can effectively rig all the delegate elections in their favor, thus controlling the entire Bitshares ecosystem.  This is Corporatism.  The delegates (aka business interests) of the Bitshares plutocracy are funded by forced wealth redistribution carried out via taxation (aka inflation) without representation.  This is Communism.  Corporatism / Communism is not free market capitalism.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 504
Actually, companies are generally formed as a way to pool resources so that they can accomplish something bigger than the individual members could do otherwise.  Some bring ideas.  Some bring talent.  And some bring cash.  All are necessary to the success of the company and owning shares is a way to keep track of relative contributions and to proportionally distribute the rewards of success.

Yes, you can build a big company and it can become evil like any human-run institution of any type.  
But the core idea of a company as a way to organize pooled resources is neither good nor evil.

Placing overly-generalized labels on things limits you to the minor leagues in the arena of ideas.

Smiley

Stan, I don't have a problem with corporations.  I have a problem with corporations which attempt to control entire economic systems to monopolistic ends.  Monopoly is the menace of free enterprise.

Then you don't understand the BitShares Ecosystem. 
Every business built on BitShares is independent.
Think of BitShares as a shopping mall that provides common services like utilities, internet, and parking lots for independent businesses who move in to take advantage of an environment in which they can prosper.

In this case, the common services provided by BitShares include:

The Origin of BitShares
Part 9
What is a SuperDAC?


Quote
SuperDAC - noun - soup-er-dak
A Decentralized Autonomous Company (DAC) providing common services that support layering of other DAC business models onto a common public ledger for the sake of shared network effect.
The need to merge our various DACs into a single "SuperDAC" was based on the realization that they all needed a whole bunch of common services that are much less effective if they aren't common services:

  • A unified basket of stable, robust global currencies (bitAssets)
  • A unified set of well compensated, best-of-breed delegates.
  • A unified name system.
  • A unified secure messaging system.
  • A unified set of on and off ramps - portals to the fiat world.
  • A unified marketing message.
  • A unified consensus-based governing system.
  • A unified family of tools and wallets.
  • A unified way for newcomers to make instant friends with everyone already there.
  • A built-in venture capital system where you can compete for start-up funds - democratically.

New business developers (DAC engineers) shouldn't want to reinvent these things any more than I would want to reinvent my computer's device drivers and operating system.  And what sense would it make to have different competing operating systems, each with a subset of drivers and services?

Gee, I sure wish I could go back in time and invest in MS-DOS. 
Rats. 
An opportunity like that will never come around again.

BitShares took the whole ecosystem into one DAC friendly free-trade zone with all the services that benefit from network effect already in place.

Any developer who wants to build a business would be crazy to stay on the outside and try to replicate that.  Even if they can pick up the toolkit and get all the functions - the network effect doesn't come with the toolkit!  You get that by joining the club.  You still run your own business with its own custom storefront and Internet presence.  You just skipped a year or two of trying to get traffic to stop by!

hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Litecoin Association Director
Loaded poll questions are loaded....
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1054
CPU Web Mining 🕸️ on webmining.io
Why is the snake in pieces if it's supposed to be a united effort?

Because, if the snake doesn't unite against the threat it faces, it will die.

Fair enough. You win this round

legendary
Activity: 2254
Merit: 1290
Actually, companies co-operatives are generally formed as a way to pool resources so that they can accomplish something bigger than the individual members could do otherwise.  Some bring ideas.  Some bring talent.  And some bring cash.  All are necessary to the success of the company co-operative and owning shares is a way to keep track of relative contributions and to proportionally distribute the rewards of success.

Placing overly-generalized specialized labels on things limits you to the minor leagues in the arena of ideas.


ftfy

Cheers

Graham
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1042
White Male Libertarian Bro
Actually, companies are generally formed as a way to pool resources so that they can accomplish something bigger than the individual members could do otherwise.  Some bring ideas.  Some bring talent.  And some bring cash.  All are necessary to the success of the company and owning shares is a way to keep track of relative contributions and to proportionally distribute the rewards of success.

Yes, you can build a big company and it can become evil like any human-run institution of any type.  
But the core idea of a company as a way to organize pooled resources is neither good nor evil.

Placing overly-generalized labels on things limits you to the minor leagues in the arena of ideas.

Smiley

Stan, I don't have a problem with corporations.  I have a problem with corporations which attempt to control entire economic systems to monopolistic ends.  Monopoly is the menace of free enterprise.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1042
White Male Libertarian Bro
Why is the snake in pieces if it's supposed to be a united effort?

Because, if the snake doesn't unite against the threat it faces, it will die.
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1054
CPU Web Mining 🕸️ on webmining.io
Why is the snake in pieces if it's supposed to be a united effort?
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
You mean pump and shilling other coins ? Wow very surprised to hear that.  Grin

Nice name you have, looks like you were the greatest shill for a crapcoin. Or are you a scammy dev?
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Right on bro! Fight the power and support decentralization!

hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 504
Actually, companies are generally formed as a way to pool resources so that they can accomplish something bigger than the individual members could do otherwise.  Some bring ideas.  Some bring talent.  And some bring cash.  All are necessary to the success of the company and owning shares is a way to keep track of relative contributions and to proportionally distribute the rewards of success.

Yes, you can build a big company and it can become evil like any human-run institution of any type.  
But the core idea of a company as a way to organize pooled resources is neither good nor evil.

Placing overly-generalized labels on things limits you to the minor leagues in the arena of ideas.

Smiley

hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
Because you are one of these bitcoin puppets who only shills for their product and fights other altcoins.

Be smarter before trolling, i was involved with a lot of other coins too
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1001
I'm gonna introduce a variant of Godwins Law:
Sooner or later, all BTT discussions will end up as a Monero thread. (or maybe NXT)  Wink

Monero is not the issue here.....the question is: do you want to put your time and investment capital into a crypto system that is structured as a corporation, or do you want to invest in a crypto that has no centralised control systems ?

A corporation is created to benefit/enrich the people who control/own that corporation, whereas a genuinely de-centralised crypto-currency has no such bias built into it. Bitcoin (or NXT, Litecoin, Doge, NEM..etc) is not structured to explicitly benefit any particular group....all users are equal (at least in theory).

Corporatism is often presented as a guarantee that everything will be professional and above board, as compared to a bunch of volunteer devs  working in basements on decentralised projects.....but take a quick look at how Paycoin launched as compared to NEM.  Grin


legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1245
if GTO911 wants this thread deleted i'm pretty sure its a good thread to keep alive.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
You are right we should delete all Monero XMR threads on this forum these would be +1000

How on earth did Monero come in between?

Why are you guys so obsessed (SCARED) of Monero?
full member
Activity: 207
Merit: 100
Smart contracts and atomic transactions will save us  Wink
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1042
White Male Libertarian Bro
Yeah, let's not delete this thread so we can laugh at the hypocrisy of it. Let's unite (centralize) against centralization!

I don't think

Just that pretty much covers it.

Looking at your history of anti-communist post yet you want people to join your group or die and you're down with corporations, want the people to rise up  Huh

So you want to form a one party group, destroy all opposition, get rid of corporations, down with capitalism, let a peoples party run it all.  Grin

Sounds like  Shocked

"Join, or Die" means, if the free cryptos don't unite against the corporatizers / centralizers, we will be overrun.

I have no problem with free enterprise, but corporations should not control the blockchain.

There is no difference between Communism and Corporatism.

You my friend sound like a rebel without a cause clue.

Then you tell me the difference between Communism, which is the state controlling the monopoly, and Corporatism, which is the monopoly controlling the state.
sr. member
Activity: 265
Merit: 250
Yeah, let's not delete this thread so we can laugh at the hypocrisy of it. Let's unite (centralize) against centralization!

I don't think

Just that pretty much covers it.

Looking at your history of anti-communist post yet you want people to join your group or die and you're down with corporations, want the people to rise up  Huh

So you want to form a one party group, destroy all opposition, get rid of corporations, down with capitalism, let a peoples party run it all.  Grin

Sounds like  Shocked

"Join, or Die" means, if the free cryptos don't unite against the corporatizers / centralizers, we will be overrun.

I have no problem with free enterprise, but corporations should not control the blockchain.

There is no difference between Communism and Corporatism.

You have no problem with free enterprise as long as its controlled  Roll Eyes

You my friend sound like a rebel without a cause clue.
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