Just gotta say as always, dooglus +1 for being clear and explaining things.
It should be obvious to everyone by now that if you were a crook you'd been gone a long time ago. You yourself have already explained how while you can make a reasonably provably fair system for players, it's really hard to make one for investors.
So Mad if you want to be critical that may be a more useful avenue.
Not choosing to implement a system that may further prove you are honest does not make one dishonest.
Good Luck!
Topic: Just-Dice scam - page 2. (Read 3492 times)
It could be found out that the worth of the casino was non-existent while fake bets were being created, additional fake investors could be created in order toe balance everything out since I imagine not every single person checks whether he is on the list.
Bitcoin debt issued out of thin air.
If this was the case, then why does the balance of the cold wallet plus the hot wallet total more then then invested amount? Clearly he has possession of the coins he says he has.Bitcoin debt issued out of thin air.
It could be that the volume of fake bets got so high that people invested themselves, it could be that some investments don't show up on the website after an investor invests.
It could be found out that the worth of the casino was non-existent while fake bets were being created, additional fake investors could be created in order toe balance everything out since I imagine not every single person checks whether he is on the list.
Bitcoin debt issued out of thin air.
If this was the case, then why does the balance of the cold wallet plus the hot wallet total more then then invested amount? Clearly he has possession of the coins he says he has. Bitcoin debt issued out of thin air.
But this isn't a flaw in logic at all. It's a decision not to release personal information about JD customers to the public.
Is releasing your public key then considered a compromise on privacy? JD accounts are pseudoanonymous like Bitcoin itself, please help me distinguish the parallels.
I don't see the relevance. JD is provably fair. Whether or not there are "fake" bets on the site is unrelated to whether the site plays fair with the "real" bets.
But to answer your question, "no". You're not a scammer if you make a non-provably fair game. Almost no fiat gambling site in the world is provably fair. What makes you a scammer is if you are scamming people, not the absence of proof of the absence of scam.
But to answer your question, "no". You're not a scammer if you make a non-provably fair game. Almost no fiat gambling site in the world is provably fair. What makes you a scammer is if you are scamming people, not the absence of proof of the absence of scam.
I was taking an example to an extreme and even then you fail to answer it, most fiat casino are under the supervision of some organization which is ridiculous to begin with. Had I proposed to chose the "roll" myself in an honest manner the probability of me not being a scammer is so minuscule that assuming that I am one would be a question of logic for the average intellectual.
Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one. You can think what you want. Others might be tempted to share your opinion if you could present it in a way that makes sense to them.
If there's a flaw, please describe it and how it could be exploited? What's the worse that could happen if I was some evil MySQL/PHP-fueled genius with a fake bet machine? What's the doomsday scenario here? You seem to be comparing JD to MtGox, but JD is provably solvent, and whether or not Gox had "fake trades" on their site wasn't related to their eventual demise. So what gives?
If there's a flaw, please describe it and how it could be exploited? What's the worse that could happen if I was some evil MySQL/PHP-fueled genius with a fake bet machine? What's the doomsday scenario here? You seem to be comparing JD to MtGox, but JD is provably solvent, and whether or not Gox had "fake trades" on their site wasn't related to their eventual demise. So what gives?
It could be found out that the worth of the casino was non-existent while fake bets were being created, additional fake investors could be created in order toe balance everything out since I imagine not every single person checks whether he is on the list.
Bitcoin debt issued out of thin air.
In the logs posted, the op strikes me as law enforcement trying to do blockchain analytics on large tx betters using this service as a honeypot.
I knew someone would bring it up, consider the latest openssl bug, now realize that chances are almost all authorities and/or organizations that would want to access this information already have access to it.
The only ones who cannot access it are private organizations and/or people like you or me.
In the logs posted, the op strikes me as law enforcement trying to do blockchain analytics on large tx betters using this service as a honeypot.
I have never played nor ever will play at just-dice, I won't invest either. We have free speech here and I feel as if the community needs people like me more than ever to shed some light on scams before shit hits the fan and everyone is bitching and moaning on the forums like post-Gox again.
Your insults are pointless, discredit my claims don't insult the messenger, plus thanks for re-wording exactly what I've told you and sending it back, I appreciate despite the fact that the way I've said it was more classy.
Me quoting your insults are meant to shed some light on the kind of degeneracy that looms those chats, not as a compliment, but take it however you will.
Clearly you haven't a fucking clue who I am.
If you can't take the degen heat. Stay out of the degen den.
(will address doogluses long post in a second)
My point was that if someone leaves out this huge potential flaw in the logic of their website in exchange for little to no (supposed) gain then it is incredibly suspicious.
If I theoretically decided to run an online casino but not integrate any provable fairness at all and assure players that I will choose a random number from 0 to 10 on every bet in an honest manner, am I then a scammer despite the players having no concrete evidence showing that I am favoring one of them?
My opinion is that dooglus is a scammer until proven otherwise, the fact is that there is a huge flaw which could potentially be exploited.
My point was that if someone leaves out this huge potential flaw in the logic of their website in exchange for little to no (supposed) gain then it is incredibly suspicious.
If I theoretically decided to run an online casino but not integrate any provable fairness at all and assure players that I will choose a random number from 0 to 10 on every bet in an honest manner, am I then a scammer despite the players having no concrete evidence showing that I am favoring one of them?
My opinion is that dooglus is a scammer until proven otherwise, the fact is that there is a huge flaw which could potentially be exploited.
I will not argue your logic, I will leave that up to Dooglus. All that I still want to say is: innocent until proven guilty, NOT the other way around.
I'm with you on this. I've followed Dooglus for a long time now and I haven't seen anything suspicious. We can all make up things and come up with stories as to why he's running a scam, but that's all they are.
My point was that if someone leaves out this huge potential flaw in the logic of their website in exchange for little to no (supposed) gain then it is incredibly suspicious.
But this isn't a flaw in logic at all. It's a decision not to release personal information about JD customers to the public.
If I theoretically decided to run an online casino but not integrate any provable fairness at all and assure players that I will choose a random number from 0 to 10 on every bet in an honest manner, am I then a scammer despite the players having no concrete evidence showing that I am favoring one of them?
I don't see the relevance. JD is provably fair. Whether or not there are "fake" bets on the site is unrelated to whether the site plays fair with the "real" bets.
But to answer your question, "no". You're not a scammer if you make a non-provably fair game. Almost no fiat gambling site in the world is provably fair. What makes you a scammer is if you are scamming people, not the absence of proof of the absence of scam.
My opinion is that dooglus is a scammer until proven otherwise, the fact is that there is a huge flaw which could potentially be exploited.
Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one. You can think what you want. Others might be tempted to share your opinion if you could present it in a way that makes sense to them.
If there's a flaw, please describe it and how it could be exploited? What's the worse that could happen if I was some evil MySQL/PHP-fueled genius with a fake bet machine? What's the doomsday scenario here? You seem to be comparing JD to MtGox, but JD is provably solvent, and whether or not Gox had "fake trades" on their site wasn't related to their eventual demise. So what gives?
Edit: dooglus was faster posting the log
it's mostly tl;dr though because it's basically repetition
btw: I also don't like people behaving like they just crawled out of a dumpster *looking at KLYE and friends* but that's the internet, period.
edit2: just saw that your bitcointalk reputation is negative, while dooglus' is positive. Really? WTF were you thinking when accusing people from an account like this?
it's mostly tl;dr though because it's basically repetition
btw: I also don't like people behaving like they just crawled out of a dumpster *looking at KLYE and friends* but that's the internet, period.
edit2: just saw that your bitcointalk reputation is negative, while dooglus' is positive. Really? WTF were you thinking when accusing people from an account like this?
(will address doogluses long post in a second)
My point was that if someone leaves out this huge potential flaw in the logic of their website in exchange for little to no (supposed) gain then it is incredibly suspicious.
If I theoretically decided to run an online casino but not integrate any provable fairness at all and assure players that I will choose a random number from 0 to 10 on every bet in an honest manner, am I then a scammer despite the players having no concrete evidence showing that I am favoring one of them?
My opinion is that dooglus is a scammer until proven otherwise, the fact is that there is a huge flaw which could potentially be exploited.
My point was that if someone leaves out this huge potential flaw in the logic of their website in exchange for little to no (supposed) gain then it is incredibly suspicious.
If I theoretically decided to run an online casino but not integrate any provable fairness at all and assure players that I will choose a random number from 0 to 10 on every bet in an honest manner, am I then a scammer despite the players having no concrete evidence showing that I am favoring one of them?
My opinion is that dooglus is a scammer until proven otherwise, the fact is that there is a huge flaw which could potentially be exploited.
I will not argue your logic, I will leave that up to Dooglus. All that I still want to say is: innocent until proven guilty, NOT the other way around.
Please post the logs, one second you disappear because "someone is hacking the cold wallet" another second one of your other moderators supposedly bans me accidentally. Just that fact alone should make players cautious.
The bit about the cold wallet was meant as a joke. Someone said:
Quote
12:43:58 (759608) hell he has access to all the invested btc , if he was looking to scam
12:44:10 (759608) he might as well do it like how inputs.io did
12:44:10 (759608)
to which I replied:
Quote
12:44:23 (1) <@dooglus> oops. I think I see a hacker in the cold wallet!
12:44:24 (1) <@dooglus> brb
12:44:26 (1) <@dooglus> etc
12:44:24 (1) <@dooglus> brb
12:44:26 (1) <@dooglus> etc
Sorry if you didn't get that. You see, hackers can't get into the cold wallet. Because it's cold (ie. offline). Funny, right? Sigh.
Anyway, here's the full unedited log:
Quote
12:33:51 (755992) Dooglus
12:33:56 *** vinton (757025) [#1194409853] bet 1.57 BTC at 49.5% and won 1.57 BTC ***
12:33:59 (755992) if your website is indeed not a scam
12:34:07 (755992) why not add the deposit txid to every bet?
12:34:17 (755992) this would prove that the user has actually made a deposit and is real
12:34:31 (755992) not some bot running queries on your mysql database
12:34:44 (1) <@dooglus> biggest 4 weeks: Oct 14 2013 7.09% | Jul 29 2013 7.56% | Oct 7 2013 7.69% | Jan 13 2014 7.82%
12:35:00 (739766) wow
12:35:05 *** vinton (757025) [#1194411350] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:35:07 *** vinton (757025) [#1194411374] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:35:07 *** vinton (757025) [#1194411385] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:35:07 *** vinton (757025) [#1194411404] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:35:08 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: what are you asking?
12:35:19 (756608) raylene I thought about that
12:35:20 (650660) what txid?
12:35:23 (1) <@dooglus> I expect most of the bets are made by bots, but don't think that's a problem
12:35:31 (755992) When a person has made a bet
12:35:41 (756608) he means your system creating fake bets I think
12:35:45 (755992) why not display the transaction id that he used to deposit to his account
12:35:50 (650660) many people run bots on their accounts
12:35:56 *** vinton (757025) [#1194412413] bet 0.7 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:35:58 (755992) not those kind of bots
12:36:00 *** vinton (757025) [#1194412473] bet 0.7 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:36:07 (755992) those would be appropriate
12:36:11 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: if you deposit 1 BTC ten times, so your balance is 10 BTC, which txid should I put next to all your bets?
12:36:15 (650660) I know what youe mean
12:36:18 (755992) the kind of bots dooglus runs on his myself database without real accounts
12:36:28 (755992) it's just a php script inserting queries into a myself database
12:36:29 (737389) she means where's the proof that nakowa actually deposited and wasn't just a figment of your imagination
12:36:40 *** vinton (757025) [#1194413226] bet 1.07 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:36:40 (755992) to create the apprearance of a busy casino
12:36:40 *** vinton (757025) [#1194413261] bet 1.07 BTC at 49.5% and won 1.07 BTC ***
12:36:41 *** vinton (757025) [#1194413280] bet 1.07 BTC at 49.5% and won 1.07 BTC ***
12:36:47 (1) <@dooglus> you're suggesting I use PHP? that's offensive
12:36:58 (755992) no
12:37:03 (650660) I see what yoe mean
12:37:03 (755992) I'm suggesting that you're a scammer
12:37:05 (737389) hey php isnt that bad if you use Symfony
12:37:19 (755992) you could link us to a page with all the 10 txids
12:37:27 (755992) the question is how bad do you want it
12:37:27 (1) <@dooglus> if I wanted to make fake bets, having to make fake deposit transactions to back them up wouldn't be a problem at all
12:37:34 (1) <@dooglus> each deposit could make a million bets...
12:37:35 (755992) the answer is not at all
12:37:46 (755992) Yes
12:37:54 (755992) but in this case you create volume as well
12:38:00 (755992) you could make a fake 250BTC bet
12:38:03 (756608) raylene.. most of the big betters.. talk in the chat /end
12:38:03 (755992) for publicity
12:38:08 (650660) so how should someone proof that this is not a scam?
12:38:15 (755992) when in fact you're a homeless person without a dime on your ass
12:38:33 (755992) I already answered that question
12:38:39 (755992) say I deposit 10BTC to this account
12:38:39 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: there was a big bet (something like 200 BTC) recently. a couple of them I think. did you see me posting *anywhere* about it?
12:38:42 (755992) I then make a bet
12:38:55 (737389) wish i knew some homeless node.js developers, I'd take them in
12:38:57 (1) <@dooglus> if it was a fake bet for publicity, would I - uh - publicise it?
12:39:02 (755992) it would link you to a page next to my bet where there are all the transaction ids that I deposited to my account with
12:39:19 (584175) doog loves to give free btc to investors, confirmed =)
12:39:19 (755992) doesn't matter
12:39:31 (759608) basically you just want the address of high rollers ?
12:39:33 (755992) just the fact that you're displaying information which isn't true is bad enough
12:39:35 (1) <@dooglus> a txid doesn't prove anything other than that coins moved from one address to another. I can make txids if I want to fake stuff
12:39:39 (650660) I think he suggests, that you scam a 200 btc WIN, so we loose our investment
12:39:50 (755992) doog loves running ponzis, confirmed
12:39:56 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: I don't mind discussing this with you, but let's stick to the facts shall we? there's no need for you to make stuff up
12:40:00 (759608) raylene you really dumb bro
12:40:09 (743316) raylene, maybe u will have better luck at the slots 
12:40:12 (1) <@dooglus> I never ran any kind of bot here, not to play, and not to make fake bets
12:40:15 (743316) get on a plane to vegas
12:40:46 (650660) I understood raylene that he is asking about it. So for me these where just hypthetical thoughts
12:40:46 (755992) you could make txids up but eventually you'd get caught when someone posts the private key for an address which you claimed belongs to your website
12:41:06 (650660) no, raylene
12:41:16 (1) <@dooglus> you make no sense. if I claim an address belongs to me, it would. they're free to create. how would someone else get the key?
12:41:22 (759608) raylene how stupid are you ?
12:41:24 (650660) he just needs to shift money from his accounts to other accounts
12:41:39 (372683) lol, raylene thinks doog would create a collision
12:41:40 (755992) keep on being sheeple and learn critical thinking or else I've got a bridge to sell you
12:41:57 (650660) two things:
12:42:06 (755992) Look doog
12:42:12 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: if you can make a coherent argument, please do so. name calling isn't helping you here
12:42:21 (650660) 1. @doog: he means, you take big transaction and claim it went here
12:42:29 (759608) honestly first you try to get your facts straight , understand the concept behind bitcoins and this site properly and then present your lame ass theory
12:42:32 (756608) raylene is making a pretty valid point doog
12:42:39 (759608) you are just making yourself look stupid
12:42:42 (372683) raylene, one thing to point out a potential problem, another to accuse doog
12:42:47 (1) <@dooglus> maybe she has a point, but it's muddled
12:42:49 (755992) you claim that you could potentially make up txids which aren't really deposits in this site is this correct?
12:43:11 (650660) 2. @raylene: you may ask critical question. What is not ok, is to say that doog is a scammer, just because you think he might be
12:43:12 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: I claim that anyone can create bitcoin transactions. that's not controversial
12:43:13 (759608) he can send bitcoins from his personal address to this site
12:43:27 (743316) raylene, its a free market
12:43:35 (759608) he has access to the seeds
12:43:41 (743316) u can play at any site u want
12:43:43 (759608) he can make 200 btc
12:43:44 *** vinton (757025) [#1194421667] bet 0.32 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:43:47 *** vinton (757025) [#1194421693] bet 0.32 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:43:48 *** vinton (757025) [#1194421740] bet 0.32 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.32 BTC ***
12:43:58 (759608) hell he has access to all the invested btc , if he was looking to scam
12:44:05 (1470) Doog could infact win the entire bankroll for himself.. But he isn't karp[
12:44:06 (650660) I understand how you think doog could scam here. But saying he does is like calling everyone with a knife a morder
12:44:10 (759608) he might as well do it like how inputs.io did
12:44:08 (1470) karpeles
12:44:16 *** vinton (757025) [#1194422268] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:44:20 (1470) Bahahah
12:44:20 (756608) He has a valid point and it could be indeed true but my opinion is that it's not.
12:44:22 *** vinton (757025) [#1194422379] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:44:23 (1) <@dooglus> oops. I think I see a hacker in the cold wallet!
12:44:24 (1) <@dooglus> brb
12:44:22 (1470) Poor TF
12:44:25 *** vinton (757025) [#1194422449] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:44:26 (1) <@dooglus> etc
12:44:38 (1470) I don't think TF scammed to be honest.. I talked to him in here and he was trying to sell his JD UID
12:44:45 (743316) raylene, just put all ur money at mtgox ,
12:44:46 (759608) TF did fucking scam
12:44:51 (755992) If you published the txids for all the deposits for each account it would add many additional requirements for you to make fake bets, one among them is to actually have access to large amounts of untainted BTC or else we'd be onto you
12:44:58 (1470) You got proof? No? Shut your talking cock hole
12:45:01 (605159) dooglus when u will make a poker site?
12:45:09 (755992) hacker right
12:45:16 *** vinton (757025) [#1194423397] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:45:18 *** vinton (757025) [#1194423439] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:45:19 *** vinton (757025) [#1194423450] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:45:19 *** vinton (757025) [#1194423468] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:45:21 (759608) raylene doog has over 5k bitcoins to his name
12:45:22 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: these fake accounts are presumably going to win a little for me, right?
12:45:24 *** vinton (757025) [#1194423551] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:45:28 (136) <@sqwerty> just-poker would be amazing
12:45:30 (1470) A man who would have stolen 4000 or whattever coins would not be in here firesaling his UID
12:45:33 (1) <@dooglus> so I could withdraw from one, and deposit into another?
12:45:36 (650660) @raylene: just if he does not have much money. Since this website runs for a while he has enough btc, whether it is a scam or not
12:45:56 (605159) dooglus u will make just-poker.com?
12:45:57 (755992) No, they would be here to create action, make the site seem busy so people invest
12:45:57 (372683) just-draw, a simple 5 card draw gambling site
12:46:03 (584175) just-21
12:46:09 *** vinton (757025) [#1194424359] bet 0.97 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:46:09 (372683) just-*
12:46:11 *** daphne (44070) [#1194424398] bet 0.117128 BTC at 90% and won 0.0117128 BTC ***
12:46:11 (650660) @doog as fas as I understand raylene, she thinks you might not have enough money for the self-transaction scam
12:46:15 *** vinton (757025) [#1194424461] bet 0.97 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:46:15 *** vinton (757025) [#1194424477] bet 0.97 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:46:18 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: also I have no incentive to make the site look busier than it is. I don't care if people play here or not to be honest
12:46:27 (755992) Yes
12:46:31 (755992) but this is your claim
12:46:33 (755992) not a fact
12:46:41 (650660) yes
12:46:42 (750722) well you got financial incentives commission etc.
12:46:37 (755992) I am discussing facts here
12:46:45 (1) <@dooglus> it's both
12:46:45 (755992) what you could potentially do to steal from your players
12:46:49 *** vinton (757025) [#1194425068] bet 0.97 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.97 BTC ***
12:46:48 (91380) i think doog would be very happy if people stopped playing and he could close the sites
12:46:57 (759608) raylene you think doog cant make a deposit from one of the JD to address to his new deposit address
12:46:58 (1) <@dooglus> I'd quite like to close the sites, yes
12:47:14 (755992) kelvinnia we would then detect the taint
12:47:14 (759608) why doog ?
12:47:15 (1) <@dooglus> they take up too much of my time, are too stressful, and I already have plenty of BTC
12:47:17 (739766) seuntije
12:47:17 (152565) λ WARNING! 739766:Homer seems to be impersonating 757646:Homer λ
12:47:19 (372683) I would rather not have my deposit address publicized everytime I make a bet ok
12:47:20 (650660) @raylene: no, you were not discussing. You could ask about it. Why we got a bit angry is, because you SAID the IS a scammer
12:47:27 (737389) if you gambled and won you could have so much more
12:47:35 (755992) you already have too much btc from running this scam
12:47:37 (755992) or so you claim
12:47:45 (739766) 757646 is djarno, he is the 1 impostering "homer" can you change it @ seuntije
12:47:51 (755992) you are losing your credibility by the second
12:47:52 (759608) raylene you have issue no one is asking you to stick along
12:48:01 (1) <@dooglus> could you help me out and tell me what you think I've done that's scammy? it is just making the site look busier than it is? or something else?
12:48:03 (743316) doog, i understand the busy part, but what is the stressful part?
12:48:03 (326399) raylene, you are the only one losing here.
12:48:04 (91380) no i don't manage the list
12:48:07 (739766) who does?
12:48:13 (759608) not like you existence matters to anyone in here
12:48:14 (91380) !s notice
12:48:14 (152565) λ Please contact Wilco, Warren or Arrogant with your new JD deposit address. All JD addies have been removed from the list at 7:30 PM UCT, on 04/23/2014 λ
12:48:17 (91380) they do
12:48:20 (743316) BANHAMMER time for raylene !
12:48:20 (136) <@sqwerty> doog let me know if you ever want to make a poker site. i could/would be interested in helping
12:48:21 (650660) raylene, please for the peace, can you say "you could" instead of "you are"
12:48:22 (739766) ok thanks
12:48:40 (755992) you could call me an altruist I guess, I help you sheeple fight darwinism by protecting you from scams
12:48:41 (650660) it is the difference between proofless accusations and discussions
12:48:49 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: please?
12:48:52 (759608) theo dont you get it already he is just a dumb troll
12:48:58 (743316) sqwerty, just ban this troll already
12:49:19 (755992) look doog
12:49:21 *** vinton (757025) [#1194427719] bet 2.07 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:49:26 (755992) say if I have a website
12:49:32 (755992) no provable fairness what-so-ever
12:49:37 (755992) I just ask people to trust me
12:49:38 (750722) talking about safety is totally legit though, always gotta be careful in the bitcoin world see gox etc.
12:49:40 (755992) PLEASE TRUST ME
12:49:43 (91380) raylene i've had coins invested in this site for months i've withdrawn multiple times and has always received all of my coins. Nothing about this page points to a scam
12:49:47 (755992) I won't steal your BTC, promise
12:49:48 (650660) ok, let me ask you directly: do you have any reasons beside the possibility, that this is a scam?
12:49:52 (91380) so please stop accusing the site without proff
12:49:55 (91380) proof*
12:50:04 (759608) raylene you dont trust doog then leave man , Stop pissing off everyone in here
12:50:09 (755992) but you don't have any proof of me actually scamming but you have this huge gaping hole in my casino
12:50:15 (755992) am I then not a scammer?
12:50:20 (650660) in my eyes, it is valid to ask
12:50:25 (91380) where is the whole?
12:50:25 (756608) I don't agree with nobody here.. all I know is that betting here if fair if you are a casual gambler not investor
12:50:32 (1) <@dooglus> what hole?
12:50:33 (756608) so I can win or lose just my luck
12:50:33 (136) <@sqwerty> just use /mute userid if you dont want to listen
12:50:51 (4764) <@G.Wilco> doog will mute when he gets bored
12:50:54 (605159) is a big hole in just dice
12:50:56 (136) <@sqwerty> sorry... /ignore userID
12:51:09 (755992) the whole concept is flawed because you don't add all the deposits for all the accounts next to each bet
12:51:14 (136) <@sqwerty> then later you can /unignore all to clear the list
12:51:12 (755992) and you never will
12:51:15 (756608) jk
12:51:16 (1) <@dooglus> lol
12:51:21 (755992) because it would then make it impossible for you to fake bets
12:51:22 (650660) @raylene:
12:51:26 *** vinton (757025) [#1194429989] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:51:30 (91380) that makes fuckoll sense....
12:51:31 (755992) you don't have access to those kind of amounts of untainted BTC
12:51:36 (755992) you never will
12:51:40 (650660) I don't want the people see how much money is going through my account
12:51:43 (650660) or from where
12:51:46 (755992) Seuntjie what doesn't make sense?
12:51:49 (1) <@dooglus> even if i was faking bets, how does that let me scam anyone?
12:51:57 (755992) your account is psuedoanonymous though
12:52:03 (755992) you could even be behind Tor
12:52:03 (91380) your whole argument....
12:52:07 (650660) it makes sense WHAT you say, but not HOW you do it
12:52:10 (758624) freeroll
12:52:29 (756608) <@dooglus> even if i was faking bets, how does that let me scam anyone? well thats that
12:52:43 (1) <@dooglus> step 1 should be to describe the scam
12:52:48 (750722) i think raylene has a good point BUT thats the same in the whole bitcoinworld. you earn trust over time. no regulation by gov also means no safety sometimes
12:52:48 (755992) Because A) you can run a ponzi on investors by issuing more "on-site" BTC than actual BTC in your system
12:52:51 (650660) I got it
12:53:07 (750722) gox was behaving weird so people asked questions
12:53:11 (1) <@dooglus> check the faq for 'ponzi'
12:53:12 (605159) bitcon and just dice are 2 ponzi schemes
12:53:13 (750722) imo JD never behaved weird in any way
12:53:34 (755992) B) you can create "fake bets" to lie to investors about the worth of your business and the traffic it gets
12:53:35 (756608) raylene I heard theres a paranoid convention down the road.. go take a look
12:53:55 (743316) doog, whats the most stressful part of jd, besides trolls like raylene?
12:53:58 (1) <@dooglus> investors see their returns
12:54:00 (755992) you also make your site look more credible to potential bettors because they wouldn't bet here otherwise get free publicity etc
12:54:06 (650660) @raylene, thanks for using "can" not "are"
12:54:11 (755992) Not all of them at once
12:54:12 (650660) don't stop with this, here
12:54:22 (755992) you could still pay them their returns at the expense of others
12:54:23 (1) <@dooglus> flux: im not a big fan of the responsibility
12:54:51 (756608) ever think about dropping that responsibility?
12:54:53 (759635) doog why do you wanna close the site ?
12:54:53 (750722) raylene: thats the same with almost anything up to a certain point. see cyprus. government fucked them. you just have to go the place that you trust the most
12:54:56 (605159) doog when u finnish answer raylene and can answer my question?
12:55:02 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: check the proof of solvency stuff
12:55:12 (650660) but txids would not change it
12:55:14 (755992) Theo doog is a scammer unless proven otherwise,
12:55:18 (650660) not any more
12:55:27 (650660) that is something for a new website
12:55:32 (759635) or maybe doog is not a scammer unless proven otherwise
12:55:32 (1) <@dooglus> i prove solvency every sunday
12:55:47 (1) <@dooglus> ie. non-ponzi-ness
12:55:55 (650660) no
12:55:56 (755992) the whole point of crypto is that you don't need to trust people based on their word
12:56:03 (650660) you can say, he might be a scammer
12:56:05 (759635) all you have pointed out is just "maybe"
12:56:06 (372683) but you can if you choose to
12:56:14 (650660) it is not a scam not to proof everything
12:56:18 (759635) you have no proof of any sorts that he is actually doing it
12:56:18 (750722) raylene: if JD was a scam or behaved weird in any way the majority would have stopped playing in a post-gox world
12:56:32 (755992) if he wasn't a scammer he wouldn't leave such a gaping flaw in his concepts to exploit freely, that is my conclusion
12:56:39 (605159) raylene if u dont trust dooglus dont invest or gamble here,
12:56:45 (750722) you DO need trust in the cryptoworld. a lot actually
12:56:48 (755992) I don't need to catch one of the board members balls deep in kids assholes to know that he is a pedo
12:56:57 (372683) wtf?
12:57:01 (750722) even if you only use full blockchain wallets
12:57:04 (4764) <@G.Wilco> if dooglus is losing credibility by the second then why does invested amount keep growing?
12:57:11 (755992) same thing with scammers like dooglus
12:57:14 (650660) raylene: why not just ask here. we would happily discuss everything. Why directly claim that he is a scammer?
12:57:14 (1) <@dooglus> i was looking for something i had lost
12:57:19 (755992) because sheeple that's why
12:57:26 (755992) or he keeps creating fake investments as well
12:57:29 (134004) <@SJ> lol
12:57:35 (134004) <@SJ> time for your medication raylene
12:57:45 (759635) lol raylene did you lose your btc in here ?
12:57:51 (755992) never
12:57:52 (750722) dooglus: cant you just show him the wallet addresses
12:57:53 *** vinton (757025) [#1194437183] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:57:53 (4764) <@G.Wilco> you can check hot wallet/cold storage if you want
12:57:56 (134004) <@SJ> he probably lost 0.000001 btc
12:57:56 (759635) i think you are just another sore loser
12:57:57 (755992) I don't gamble like a degenerate
12:57:57 (733758) fake investments? you can see balances in wallets, wtf?
12:57:59 (1470) Raylene. Kill yourself
12:58:04 (650660) no, I want my privacy
12:58:04 (755992) not even "invest" in shit like this
12:58:10 (134004) <@SJ> fuck off then
12:58:17 (1470) To spare the world having to hear your delusional bullshit
12:58:23 (750722) why do you spend your time here then
12:58:24 (755992) most people on here aren't nearly intelligent enough to comprehend the matters at hand
12:58:26 (650660) nobody forces you to do so
12:58:30 (755992) except Theo apparently
12:58:31 (1) <@dooglus> may: i pointed him at the faq twice where it is all linked. he 'knows' the truth already, and cant think further
12:58:46 (372683) not really "investing" but "bankrolling"
12:58:51 (605159) dooglus when u will answer me
12:58:55 (1470) Most people aren't paranoid schizophrenics like you either raylene.. It's not an advantage you have.. It's a sickness
12:58:56 (650660) maybe, but nobody wants to listen to you, because you are just impolite
12:59:04 (372683) raylene just a troll
12:59:05 *** vinton (757025) [#1194438666] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:59:11 (372683) ban already
12:59:11 (134004) <@SJ> mega troll
12:59:13 (372683) ban hammer
12:59:21 (755992) because I am an altruist that is concerned about your BTC don't bitch and moan on bitcointalk when this shit hits the gox fan again
12:59:23 (1470) *gives doog the nod*
12:59:27 (1470) altruist?
12:59:28 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: the mods are squabbling over who gets to mute you
12:59:36 (1470) Isn't that the cult from GTA5?
12:59:41 (750722) thinking about how dooglus could be scamming is valid and good and just critical thinking. but dont just claim stuff you cant prove
12:59:50 (1470) Doog isn't a scammer.
12:59:54 (650660) raylene, it would be okay to point out where you see the possibility for a scam
12:59:54 (743316) klye , good call.
13:00:09 *** vinton (757025) [#1194439828] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
13:00:03 (759481) raylene has ass burgers
13:00:03 (152565) λ WARNING! 759481:wynter seems to be impersonating 421101:wynter λ
13:00:05 (1) <@dooglus> like i say im willing to discuss all this stuff
13:00:05 (1) <@dooglus> but raylene doesn't seem to be
13:00:05 (755992) may look
13:00:08 (1470) And the 20 Million isn't enough for him to run with yet. 
13:00:13 (1) <@dooglus> she makes little sense, and won't listen to reason
13:00:17 (650660) but claiming this without evidence...I'm sorry to say so, that is trolling
13:00:20 (759635) raylene if you consider yourself this smart . tell us this why would someone spend so much of time and effort to make their investments seem higher to scam when doog can just take the btc and run
13:00:24 (737389) maybe somebody's attempting to hack the servers tonight and sent a troll into the chatroom to distract you
13:00:24 (743316) doog, u are expecting fact and reason
12:33:56 *** vinton (757025) [#1194409853] bet 1.57 BTC at 49.5% and won 1.57 BTC ***
12:33:59 (755992)
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12:34:31 (755992)
12:34:44 (1) <@dooglus> biggest 4 weeks: Oct 14 2013 7.09% | Jul 29 2013 7.56% | Oct 7 2013 7.69% | Jan 13 2014 7.82%
12:35:00 (739766)
12:35:05 *** vinton (757025) [#1194411350] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:35:07 *** vinton (757025) [#1194411374] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:35:07 *** vinton (757025) [#1194411385] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:35:07 *** vinton (757025) [#1194411404] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:35:08 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: what are you asking?
12:35:19 (756608)
12:35:20 (650660)
12:35:23 (1) <@dooglus> I expect most of the bets are made by bots, but don't think that's a problem
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12:35:56 *** vinton (757025) [#1194412413] bet 0.7 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:35:58 (755992)
12:36:00 *** vinton (757025) [#1194412473] bet 0.7 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:36:07 (755992)
12:36:11 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: if you deposit 1 BTC ten times, so your balance is 10 BTC, which txid should I put next to all your bets?
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12:36:40 *** vinton (757025) [#1194413226] bet 1.07 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:36:40 (755992)
12:36:40 *** vinton (757025) [#1194413261] bet 1.07 BTC at 49.5% and won 1.07 BTC ***
12:36:41 *** vinton (757025) [#1194413280] bet 1.07 BTC at 49.5% and won 1.07 BTC ***
12:36:47 (1) <@dooglus> you're suggesting I use PHP? that's offensive
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12:37:27 (1) <@dooglus> if I wanted to make fake bets, having to make fake deposit transactions to back them up wouldn't be a problem at all
12:37:34 (1) <@dooglus> each deposit could make a million bets...
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12:38:39 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: there was a big bet (something like 200 BTC) recently. a couple of them I think. did you see me posting *anywhere* about it?
12:38:42 (755992)
12:38:55 (737389)
12:38:57 (1) <@dooglus> if it was a fake bet for publicity, would I - uh - publicise it?
12:39:02 (755992)
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12:39:35 (1) <@dooglus> a txid doesn't prove anything other than that coins moved from one address to another. I can make txids if I want to fake stuff
12:39:39 (650660)
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12:39:56 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: I don't mind discussing this with you, but let's stick to the facts shall we? there's no need for you to make stuff up
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12:40:12 (1) <@dooglus> I never ran any kind of bot here, not to play, and not to make fake bets
12:40:15 (743316)
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12:41:16 (1) <@dooglus> you make no sense. if I claim an address belongs to me, it would. they're free to create. how would someone else get the key?
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12:42:12 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: if you can make a coherent argument, please do so. name calling isn't helping you here
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12:42:47 (1) <@dooglus> maybe she has a point, but it's muddled
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12:43:12 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: I claim that anyone can create bitcoin transactions. that's not controversial
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12:43:44 *** vinton (757025) [#1194421667] bet 0.32 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:43:47 *** vinton (757025) [#1194421693] bet 0.32 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:43:48 *** vinton (757025) [#1194421740] bet 0.32 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.32 BTC ***
12:43:58 (759608)
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12:44:16 *** vinton (757025) [#1194422268] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:44:20 (1470)
12:44:20 (756608)
12:44:22 *** vinton (757025) [#1194422379] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:44:23 (1) <@dooglus> oops. I think I see a hacker in the cold wallet!
12:44:24 (1) <@dooglus> brb
12:44:22 (1470)
12:44:25 *** vinton (757025) [#1194422449] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:44:26 (1) <@dooglus> etc
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12:45:16 *** vinton (757025) [#1194423397] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:45:18 *** vinton (757025) [#1194423439] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:45:19 *** vinton (757025) [#1194423450] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:45:19 *** vinton (757025) [#1194423468] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:45:21 (759608)
12:45:22 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: these fake accounts are presumably going to win a little for me, right?
12:45:24 *** vinton (757025) [#1194423551] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:45:28 (136) <@sqwerty> just-poker would be amazing
12:45:30 (1470)
12:45:33 (1) <@dooglus> so I could withdraw from one, and deposit into another?
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12:46:09 *** vinton (757025) [#1194424359] bet 0.97 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:46:09 (372683)
12:46:11 *** daphne (44070) [#1194424398] bet 0.117128 BTC at 90% and won 0.0117128 BTC ***
12:46:11 (650660)
12:46:15 *** vinton (757025) [#1194424461] bet 0.97 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:46:15 *** vinton (757025) [#1194424477] bet 0.97 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:46:18 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: also I have no incentive to make the site look busier than it is. I don't care if people play here or not to be honest
12:46:27 (755992)
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12:46:45 (1) <@dooglus> it's both
12:46:45 (755992)
12:46:49 *** vinton (757025) [#1194425068] bet 0.97 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.97 BTC ***
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12:46:58 (1) <@dooglus> I'd quite like to close the sites, yes
12:47:14 (755992)
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12:47:15 (1) <@dooglus> they take up too much of my time, are too stressful, and I already have plenty of BTC
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12:48:01 (1) <@dooglus> could you help me out and tell me what you think I've done that's scammy? it is just making the site look busier than it is? or something else?
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12:48:20 (136) <@sqwerty> doog let me know if you ever want to make a poker site. i could/would be interested in helping
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12:48:49 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: please?
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12:49:21 *** vinton (757025) [#1194427719] bet 2.07 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
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12:50:32 (1) <@dooglus> what hole?
12:50:33 (756608)
12:50:33 (136) <@sqwerty> just use /mute userid if you dont want to listen
12:50:51 (4764) <@G.Wilco> doog will mute when he gets bored
12:50:54 (605159)
12:50:56 (136) <@sqwerty> sorry... /ignore userID
12:51:09 (755992)
12:51:14 (136) <@sqwerty> then later you can /unignore all to clear the list
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12:51:16 (1) <@dooglus> lol
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12:51:26 *** vinton (757025) [#1194429989] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
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12:51:49 (1) <@dooglus> even if i was faking bets, how does that let me scam anyone?
12:51:57 (755992)
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12:52:43 (1) <@dooglus> step 1 should be to describe the scam
12:52:48 (750722)
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12:53:11 (1) <@dooglus> check the faq for 'ponzi'
12:53:12 (605159)
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12:53:58 (1) <@dooglus> investors see their returns
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12:54:23 (1) <@dooglus> flux: im not a big fan of the responsibility
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12:55:02 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: check the proof of solvency stuff
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12:55:32 (1) <@dooglus> i prove solvency every sunday
12:55:47 (1) <@dooglus> ie. non-ponzi-ness
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12:57:04 (4764) <@G.Wilco> if dooglus is losing credibility by the second then why does invested amount keep growing?
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12:57:14 (1) <@dooglus> i was looking for something i had lost
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12:57:29 (134004) <@SJ> lol
12:57:35 (134004) <@SJ> time for your medication raylene
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12:57:53 *** vinton (757025) [#1194437183] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:57:53 (4764) <@G.Wilco> you can check hot wallet/cold storage if you want
12:57:56 (134004) <@SJ> he probably lost 0.000001 btc
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12:58:10 (134004) <@SJ> fuck off then
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12:58:31 (1) <@dooglus> may: i pointed him at the faq twice where it is all linked. he 'knows' the truth already, and cant think further
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12:59:05 *** vinton (757025) [#1194438666] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
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12:59:11 (134004) <@SJ> mega troll
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12:59:28 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: the mods are squabbling over who gets to mute you
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13:00:09 *** vinton (757025) [#1194439828] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
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13:00:05 (1) <@dooglus> like i say im willing to discuss all this stuff
13:00:05 (1) <@dooglus> but raylene doesn't seem to be
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13:00:13 (1) <@dooglus> she makes little sense, and won't listen to reason
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