Topic: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game - page 215. (Read 435362 times)
I agree with you Bug. However, just trying to make it more palatable to everyone. Hey maybe if we do the rollback, Doog will give back the 120 himself out of his own coins and take that smaller loss. 120BTC loss better than the current 1050BTC which he is prepared to take. We just need to come to some sort of fair resolition, not just for Doog, but for the investors who made no errors.
I think he should roll it back. Provided he actually can. And that he can demonstrate that those bets were stolen and not actual bets.
1300 BTC were not stolen. Bets were stolen and those bets put 1300 BTC into the bankroll. Without Doog's mistake the investors would be down another 1300 BTC. I think that is fair because that is what should have happened.
1300 BTC were not stolen. Bets were stolen and those bets put 1300 BTC into the bankroll. Without Doog's mistake the investors would be down another 1300 BTC. I think that is fair because that is what should have happened.
well actually only needs to give 1050 BTC back since he got 130 BTC as a 10% investor and celeste returned 120 BTC
If a roll-back is performed he should probably return celeste's donation as well.
I would like celeste to keep playing, TBH. His expected return over the last 2 days was -1700 BTC. He just got lucky.
I think he should roll it back. Provided he actually can. And that he can demonstrate that those bets were stolen and not actual bets.
1300 BTC were not stolen. Bets were stolen and those bets put 1300 BTC into the bankroll. Without Doog's mistake the investors would be down another 1300 BTC. I think that is fair because that is what should have happened.
1300 BTC were not stolen. Bets were stolen and those bets put 1300 BTC into the bankroll. Without Doog's mistake the investors would be down another 1300 BTC. I think that is fair because that is what should have happened.
well actually only needs to give 1050 BTC back since he got 130 BTC as a 10% investor and celeste returned 120 BTC
My concern is currently J-D is not doing well for investors and now the operator. It is only doing well for the players. I would hate to see Dooglas shut down the site or not put the effort into it to make it suceed. I also want to see the most fair solution which I believe would be to clawback the funds - noone has divested yet (of any significance). If some investors leave since they lost BTC that do not belong to them, then they will be replaced with others eventually.
Having individual donations, individual pledges, etc is messy and not efficient. Besides, you won't even have to give everything back since celeste did give Dooglas back 120 BTC plus he got about 130 BTC from his 10% ownership - so that 250BTC there, suntract from 1300 and that 1050 BTC. Still a lot but only if you view those ill-gotten gains as your own.
Once investors start withdrawing their investments, a clawback will no longer be feasible so he needs to decide asap what to do.
Having individual donations, individual pledges, etc is messy and not efficient. Besides, you won't even have to give everything back since celeste did give Dooglas back 120 BTC plus he got about 130 BTC from his 10% ownership - so that 250BTC there, suntract from 1300 and that 1050 BTC. Still a lot but only if you view those ill-gotten gains as your own.
Once investors start withdrawing their investments, a clawback will no longer be feasible so he needs to decide asap what to do.
My only problem with this is that those who give the coins back to Dooglas are actually punished by having their total percentage of the pool diluted. Those who keep the coins benefit twice - first directly by keeping the coins and then secondly by having an inflated ownership to what they actually invested since their percentage goes up and the "honest" investors goes down.
Investors should not be punished here either. The right solution would be for Dooglas to debit the ill gotten gains from those investors who received them and credit it back to himself - not make it optional where the honest people are now double punished.
Can we just do that? It makes the most sense - I am down as it is and do not want to further compound it. Yet, I do not feel Dooglas needs to pay so harshly for his error since no harm was truly done to investors. Return the donations, take back the ill-gotten profits and let's just move on. Oh, and can we decrease the max profit please;)
Investors should not be punished here either. The right solution would be for Dooglas to debit the ill gotten gains from those investors who received them and credit it back to himself - not make it optional where the honest people are now double punished.
Can we just do that? It makes the most sense - I am down as it is and do not want to further compound it. Yet, I do not feel Dooglas needs to pay so harshly for his error since no harm was truly done to investors. Return the donations, take back the ill-gotten profits and let's just move on. Oh, and can we decrease the max profit please;)
I'm ok with an across the board roll back of those bets as well.
I think he should roll it back. Provided he actually can. And that he can demonstrate that those bets were stolen and not actual bets.
1300 BTC were not stolen. Bets were stolen and those bets put 1300 BTC into the bankroll. Without Doog's mistake the investors would be down another 1300 BTC. I think that is fair because that is what should have happened.
1300 BTC were not stolen. Bets were stolen and those bets put 1300 BTC into the bankroll. Without Doog's mistake the investors would be down another 1300 BTC. I think that is fair because that is what should have happened.
what about a 1300BTC loan or series of loans? that would fill the hole and not break dooglas' wallet/spirit?
if he even hints at rolling it back, then all the investors will, and any investors that stay would have been either not paying attention, or the same people that would have volunteered to cover the losses...right?
Noone has divested yet - at least nothing significant. He can still do it - you cannot divest without Dooglas manually processing it. Almost no bitcoins are on the hot wallet, all in cold storage. Not too late for a roll back and noone will have significantly divested before then. If he is going to do so though, he would need to do so asap.My only point is it needs to be fair and to everyone. Not fair for good samaritans to get their investments diluted by those who decide to keep the ill-gotten gains. I just do not think Dooglas should have even given a choice. He should have rolled it back at the time, explained it and noone would have divested - at least nothing significant.
also, once JD gets back even, whats the estimation on how long until dooglas is back in the black?
At average velocity over the site's lifetime: 135 BTC / day is the expected site profit. (I took this thread's creation date as the start of the site.)Doog makes up 10% of the site: 13.5 BTC / day
+ 5% of the other 90%: 6 BTC / day
Assume some growth for ease of numbers: he'll make 20 BTC / day and be in the black in 50 days.
Except, commission won't be paid on most investments until we get back over the previous high, so it's more like 2 months.
(I feel like I made some embarrassing error there...)
also, once JD gets back even, whats the estimation on how long until dooglas is back in the black?
At the avg betrate sofar, around 338000 BTC per month Dooglus should earn on avg 169,2 BTC per month in commission and 321,1 BTC on his investments in the house if he's at 10% so he should make back 490,3 BTC per month or 49 030 USD at 100 USD per BTC. If the avg bets is higher like it has been the last week, well then proportinally more ofc. So depending on how much will be donated and/or if Dooglus will get the coins back from celest it could be anything from days to maby 1,5 months to make back his loss.
I don't really understand why the bets which shouldnt have been made weren't just reversed? if there was no extra withdrawal, why was there a shortfall?
celeste had an extra 1300 BTC left in his JD account to bet with that was already directly paid to him from doog. he proceed to lose this 1300. this 1300 would have been part of the bank roll had things gone right. however, celeste lost the 1300 so then it showed up as "profit" to the investors when it really should have just been nothing (capital sitting at JD that was waiting for its normal cycling of bets)
also, once JD gets back even, whats the estimation on how long until dooglas is back in the black?
if he even hints at rolling it back, then all the investors will, and any investors that stay would have been either not paying attention, or the same people that would have volunteered to cover the losses...right?
I agree Coinbomb, the solution is not for good samaritans to return funds and disadvantage themselves to those who keep them. Just roll it back, they coins were never going to be able to be withdrawn anyway. Anyway, it up to Doog at the end of the day. Lots of respect for him, very few others would be as honorable. One could say Dooglas is provably fair. 
I don't really understand why the bets which shouldnt have been made weren't just reversed? if there was no extra withdrawal, why was there a shortfall?
I will donate 20% of my overall investment gains, up to (1300-120)BTC * my percentage invested at the time of the error.
Thanks Bugpowder. I somehow missed this post before.
I'm so sick and tired of this whole thing at the moment, but I'll carry on with it and see how it goes. I just don't feel good about any of it any more.
You have literally the best bitcoin site on the planet right now. It will monetize you if you give it time and energy.
I will donate 20% of my overall investment gains, up to (1300-120)BTC * my percentage invested at the time of the error.
Thanks Bugpowder. I somehow missed this post before.
I'm so sick and tired of this whole thing at the moment, but I'll carry on with it and see how it goes. I just don't feel good about any of it any more.
Carry on man. If you persist, over time your gains will overshadow the error and you will see it as cost of business or cost of education.
Aim for 13000 coins, not 1300.
My only problem with this is that those who give the coins back to Dooglas are actually punished by having their total percentage of the pool diluted. Those who keep the coins benefit twice - first directly by keeping the coins and then secondly by having an inflated ownership to what they actually invested since their percentage goes up and the "honest" investors goes down.
Investors should not be punished here either. The right solution would be for Dooglas to debit the ill gotten gains from those investors who received them and credit it back to himself - not make it optional where the honest people are now double punished.
Can we just do that? It makes the most sense - I am down as it is and do not want to further compound it. Yet, I do not feel Dooglas needs to pay so harshly for his error since no harm was truly done to investors. Return the donations, take back the ill-gotten profits and let's just move on. Oh, and can we decrease the max profit please;)
Investors should not be punished here either. The right solution would be for Dooglas to debit the ill gotten gains from those investors who received them and credit it back to himself - not make it optional where the honest people are now double punished.
Can we just do that? It makes the most sense - I am down as it is and do not want to further compound it. Yet, I do not feel Dooglas needs to pay so harshly for his error since no harm was truly done to investors. Return the donations, take back the ill-gotten profits and let's just move on. Oh, and can we decrease the max profit please;)
I will donate 20% of my overall investment gains, up to (1300-120)BTC * my percentage invested at the time of the error.
Thanks Bugpowder. I somehow missed this post before.
I'm so sick and tired of this whole thing at the moment, but I'll carry on with it and see how it goes. I just don't feel good about any of it any more.
Well, I've revised my original position. What dooglus did was basically donate 1300BTC to investors, since if the whale had won and tried to withdraw again he surely would have noticed something is amiss and debited 1300BTC from him, and all would have been fine. The only other option for the whale was to lose, which is what happened obviously. So I'll be paying my part back, it is his money after all. Hopefully some other investors do the same.
Regardless...
...I support this anyway. Just because the situation is a bit grim now, it doesn't mean it will be in a week or two. The site isn't that much down any more, it just needs a day or two (32,4k BTC wagered) to reach upside again, if we have normal luck. Of course we may get raped by whales again, but such is the nature of the game. Eventually even the whales will lose.
Just make the higher comission an option, and you could have the 1.3k back pretty quickly at this rate.
Regardless...
I will donate 20% of my overall investment gains, up to (1300-120)BTC * my percentage invested at the time of the error. Thus I don't take a terrible immediate hit for an error that was not my fault, and Dooglus has an incentive to keep the site humming along so we can earn his coins back.
Perhaps other investors could take a similar approach? As profits roll-in in the future, carve a slice off until your 'ill-gains' are balanced out.
Ultimately, we don't want to kill the golden goose that is Just-Dice. And I trust that Doog will take steps to ensure errors like this don't happen again.
Perhaps other investors could take a similar approach? As profits roll-in in the future, carve a slice off until your 'ill-gains' are balanced out.
Ultimately, we don't want to kill the golden goose that is Just-Dice. And I trust that Doog will take steps to ensure errors like this don't happen again.
...I support this anyway. Just because the situation is a bit grim now, it doesn't mean it will be in a week or two. The site isn't that much down any more, it just needs a day or two (32,4k BTC wagered) to reach upside again, if we have normal luck. Of course we may get raped by whales again, but such is the nature of the game. Eventually even the whales will lose.
Just make the higher comission an option, and you could have the 1.3k back pretty quickly at this rate.
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