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Topic: Just-Dice.com : now with added CLAMs : Play or Invest - page 227. (Read 454769 times)

sr. member
Activity: 394
Merit: 250
Was this :

Quote
Your investment may also be used to fund promotions, or anything else the site owner considers to be beneficial to the overall growth of the site's bankroll. Given the anonymous nature of investing, it is impossible to gain consent of all investors before making decisions about how to use invested funds, so I am claiming the right to do whatever I consider best for the site with them.

originally present in the description ?

I would like to restrict the usage of my money to funding the pool.

it was not.

Ok, so then I'll add another suggestion : "when people lend you their money you don't get to change the rules underway", which intersects quite nicely with "make a GPG contract that I can review and hold you accountable against".

but somehow it was considered "too complicated."
I call it simple, issue shares, IPO them, problem solved. Shares are an investment in the management, lending money to the pool is a rational gamble.

And that obviously doesn't prevent from using some raised capital to fund the pool (depending on how the IPO is made and the shares issued), at the management's discretion.

Divest, pool has plenty of capital, it doesn't need yours.  Issuing shares is illegal.  GPG contracts are unenforceable.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
User #1758
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1008
1davout
Was this :

Quote
Your investment may also be used to fund promotions, or anything else the site owner considers to be beneficial to the overall growth of the site's bankroll. Given the anonymous nature of investing, it is impossible to gain consent of all investors before making decisions about how to use invested funds, so I am claiming the right to do whatever I consider best for the site with them.

originally present in the description ?

I would like to restrict the usage of my money to funding the pool.

it was not.

Ok, so then I'll add another suggestion : "when people lend you their money you don't get to change the rules underway", which intersects quite nicely with "make a GPG contract that I can review and hold you accountable against".

but somehow it was considered "too complicated."
I call it simple, issue shares, IPO them, problem solved. Shares are an investment in the management, lending money to the pool is a rational gamble.

And that obviously doesn't prevent from using some raised capital to fund the pool (depending on how the IPO is made and the shares issued), at the management's discretion.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
newbie
Activity: 38
Merit: 0
Was this :

Quote
Your investment may also be used to fund promotions, or anything else the site owner considers to be beneficial to the overall growth of the site's bankroll. Given the anonymous nature of investing, it is impossible to gain consent of all investors before making decisions about how to use invested funds, so I am claiming the right to do whatever I consider best for the site with them.

originally present in the description ?

I would like to restrict the usage of my money to funding the pool.

it was not.

a few folks discussed this in the chat before it came up, and i voiced that some would like to have this option, but somehow it was considered "too complicated."

I didn't think this was going to make it in since another agreement was that the commission % was also being made variable to cover these costs... it seems redundant that commission % is subject to change to cover these costs AND the investment can be used to also cover these costs.





legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1008
1davout
So you want the benefit gained by publicity and promotion but without having to pay for it?  Tongue

There are multiple reasons for this view to be incorrect.

Firstly, why would I automatically be interested in a growing pool ? It does not necessarily increase my profits, it just reduces my variance.
Secondly, this idea does not need advertising, just like bitcoiners have a natural incentive to spread bitcoin, investors have an incentive to promote JD.
Thirdly, accounting expenses against the betting pool transforms the value proposition from :
 - Reverse satoshidice (I'm basically betting my investment with a negative house edge) which is predictable on the long run, to
 - Reverse satoshidice, with unpredictable expenses, maybe. So if I'm smart I just divest when the forum auction for advertisement space starts and reinvest when it's done, or I'm buddies with the operator and divest before expenses are charged and reinvest afterwards.

The correct way to do it is to account for expenses against the site profits (the 1% commission on profits), it doesn't matter whether the 1% commission becomes 2%, it just needs to be predicatble. I'm not investing in a company, I am lending money to it. Apples and oranges.

Oh, and last thing, the description sorta contradicts itself :

Quote
Your investment may also be used to fund promotions, or anything else the site owner considers to be beneficial to the overall growth of the site's bankroll.

and

Quote
The site currently charges a 1% commission on net investment profits to cover expenses such as advertising, server hosting, etc.

I would really like to see this cleared up ASAP so I can decide whether I want to throw more money at dooglus or divest.

Oh, and last thing, a proper GPG-signed contract for investors would be nice.

Overall the idea is terrific, I just think it needs some polishing on the edges.
vip
Activity: 756
Merit: 503
Was this :

Quote
Your investment may also be used to fund promotions, or anything else the site owner considers to be beneficial to the overall growth of the site's bankroll. Given the anonymous nature of investing, it is impossible to gain consent of all investors before making decisions about how to use invested funds, so I am claiming the right to do whatever I consider best for the site with them.

originally present in the description ?

I would like to restrict the usage of my money to funding the pool.
So you want the benefit gained by publicity and promotion but without having to pay for it?  Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1008
1davout
Was this :

Quote
Your investment may also be used to fund promotions, or anything else the site owner considers to be beneficial to the overall growth of the site's bankroll. Given the anonymous nature of investing, it is impossible to gain consent of all investors before making decisions about how to use invested funds, so I am claiming the right to do whatever I consider best for the site with them.

originally present in the description ?

I would like to restrict the usage of my money to funding the pool.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
0xFB0D8D1534241423
Quote
Let's break it down: Suppose the house (the site investor) is currently playing with a 90 BTC bankroll and you invest 10 BTC. You will have 10% of the new 'current bankroll'. Each bet that a player makes is played against the current bankroll. As players win and lose, your investment grows or shrinks by 10% of the overall house profit. When you withdraw your investment you get 10% of the current bankroll.

Dooglus - I don't think this wording is what you mean; at least I hope it isn't.  If someone "invests" 100 BTC to take the bankroll up to 200 BTC, and I then withdraw, surely you don't mean I get 10% of 200, i.e. take 10 BTC of the new investor's money?

The wording needs cleaning up.
If someone doubles the bankroll, your percentage halves.
donator
Activity: 668
Merit: 500
Quote
Let's break it down: Suppose the house (the site investor) is currently playing with a 90 BTC bankroll and you invest 10 BTC. You will have 10% of the new 'current bankroll'. Each bet that a player makes is played against the current bankroll. As players win and lose, your investment grows or shrinks by 10% of the overall house profit. When you withdraw your investment you get 10% of the current bankroll.

Dooglus - I don't think this wording is what you mean; at least I hope it isn't.  If someone "invests" 100 BTC to take the bankroll up to 200 BTC, and I then withdraw, surely you don't mean I get 10% of 200, i.e. take 10 BTC of the new investor's money?

The wording needs cleaning up.
member
Activity: 65
Merit: 10
member
Activity: 83
Merit: 10
Nicely done, dooglus Smiley
My user ID is 1778, if you still feel generous Smiley
full member
Activity: 193
Merit: 100
Is there any way to pause the live bets? I am often interested in looking at one bet but it goes away before I can even click it.
full member
Activity: 180
Merit: 100
Looks pretty cool...

User 1764
member
Activity: 68
Merit: 10
Time to invest.

user ID 1760
donator
Activity: 3228
Merit: 1226
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
User ID: 437.

TY  Smiley

Enjoy!

112 2013-06-24 08:19:24 (1) manually crediting user 437 with amount 0.01 lightlord
113 2013-06-24 08:20:20 (1) manually crediting user 1738 with amount 0.01 templerunAI
114 2013-06-24 08:20:53 (1) manually crediting user 1739 with amount 0.01 air1


Yay Tried my Luck Up to 0.03 Bitcents Smiley
Great site, nice and sleek.

Invested some Bitcoins, see how it goes.

Best regards
Lightlord
hero member
Activity: 767
Merit: 500
Hey dooglus,

do you plan to advertise on this forum?

Will
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
User ID: 437.

TY  Smiley

Enjoy!

112 2013-06-24 08:19:24 (1) manually crediting user 437 with amount 0.01 lightlord
113 2013-06-24 08:20:20 (1) manually crediting user 1738 with amount 0.01 templerunAI
114 2013-06-24 08:20:53 (1) manually crediting user 1739 with amount 0.01 air1
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
Set it to invest all just for the lulz, and probably will gamble with it once my brain clears up. Thanks again!

I saw.  We were trying to talk to you in the chat, but I guess you were elsewhere...  Smiley
newbie
Activity: 32
Merit: 0
User: 1738

TY
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