Topic: Just wait, this is coming down the pipe. (Read 3721 times)

I love reading posts that I know could have come from me, there is such a concrete sense of oneness that just flows out from this idea. If a year ago you had told me that I'd be obsessively reading about a new currency AND getting goose bumbs from doing so I would have laughed and said "man, you don't know shit about me. I don't give a damn about economics, currency, or any kind cryptography anything."

To me Bitcoin is a what a currency should have been in the first place. I can certainly relate to the martyr argument because I cannot go back to the idea of being happy using a fiat dead currency like USD. I won't give up on Bitcoin because I believe in the core reason for it's creation. At this point there is no going back for me because the way I think about money has changed completely. Not just because of Bitcoin being introduced to me per say, but it's been a long yearning in my mind that finally found an answer to bring change to the current failing system.

Many people here who consider themselves early adapters likely share the same sentiment. Getting rich is one thing, but having the chance to stop the thievery form the Banking industry altogether for the long haul is the real reason why I'm invested in Bitcoin and mining operation. If my investing in Bitcoin proves to be the correct choice, I will surely be rewarded for my faith and support of the currency. I'm confident that I'm correct to bet on Bitcoin here. Even in the worse case scenario, it would have been worth it to be part of the solution in an attempt to fix a broken system that can changes the lives of billions.

Gavin, it's good to see you pop in and offer your perspective. I think we are all very grateful to have you as a level-headed spokesmen for Bitcoin. Listening to you in the interviews, I've heard you say how you'd be much more comfortable to continue coding and working instead of constantly doing public appearances and talks on it.

I think that proves that you are the person for that role. It has been thrust upon you and not seized or even necessarily wanted by you. We can all argue that Bitcoin is completely unstoppable. We can talk about bringing down the banking system. The truth is that at this stage, we just don't know what the future of Bitcoin holds.

It's a revolutionary idea, and it has the power to change lives. However, it has its weak points. The usability needs to improve for further adoption by the general population. The security needs to improve to be taken seriously by big investors. The biggest hurdle we face right now is playing the game and showing the legitimacy and beneficial nature of Bitcoin to government and politicians.

It is in the best interests of Bitcoin for all of us to play nice with others, or at least pretend to do so.

Obviously this person didn't read the link posted above.  Here it is again for your viewing pleasure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking

+1

"All the forces in the world are not so powerful as an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo

It's not so much that I'm wanting to to be militant and subvert the system etc etc. I'm just in AWE of Bitcoin. I'm trying to understand it. I don't think it can be stopped, and I'm interested in the ways that this will pan out, and how we can facilitate its path being as peaceful and beneficial as possible. This might be the biggest Black Swan for a long time, sailing by invisibly under everyone's noses right now.

Jessy, I'm not going to quote any of your specific quotes. But i will point out something that may not have occurred to you. Yes, bitcoin may be able to be stopped by a great big government attack, technology wise unlikely, negative publicity more so. However, what you may be failing to realize is the martyr factor - alot of people have had their lives changed by this idea, changed in a way unimaginable. the powers that be know this. these people who have been touched in a deep even spiritual way by the implications of this system will not pack up and go home and just give up. We just had a man set himself on fire and die(in the US) in protest of how unfair fathers are treated in custody battles/child support cases. don't underestimate for a second that the power behind this movement. if bitcoin is squashed, people will just use it as a lesson. we see the holy land and we are headed towards it, obstacles will be circumvented. no amount of negativity by anyone could have stopped the automobile, the internet, or now, free(as in liberated) money.

+1

It's posts like this opening post that get me completely excited about Bitcoin! You know how sometimes you get some doubts about what you're doing, but things are going to be big!

Oh crypto-currency is here to stay. Best anti-counterfeiting tech to come along in centuries.


Whoops! My apologies.

Bitcoin's technology is unstoppable, like p2p filesharing has proven to be unstoppable. But "the Bitcoin Project" could fail in a bunch of different ways.

If mainstream people think "Oh, bitcoin is that internet thing used by criminals", that is bad for bitcoin. It might be bad enough to kill the project (note that I said "the project", not "the technology").

If bitcoin really does turn into an internet thing only used by criminals then I'll personally consider it a failed experiment and will find something else to do.


PS: the cbsnews interview was with Jeff, not me, and my last name is "Andresen"

Everything in that post is right on the mark.  It should be posted as a sticky.  New members should have to read it and sign it like a microsoft license agreement.  

Watch this interview with Gavin Anderson bit coin programmer/administrator. It's eye opening, especially what he says about working with the government,  using bitcoin is not anonymous, the exchanges are registered with the government and complying with all laws.  This guy also gave a talk to the CIA this week. You can find the link for that yourself.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7368784n

Wikileaks- is redundant, largely static, with fallbacks, an insurance package, and a small number of individuals outside of the US to take legal action against.

Bitcoin- an interconnected, dynamically updated open system subject to cascade failure, with a huge number of users just sitting there posting about their crimes openly on a US server just waiting to be plucked. It's robust, it's not bulletproof and the Developers never said it was.

I get where you are coming from, I know that no matter where this goes you won't believe me. So email the above to Gavin and ask him if it's unstoppable. Ask him if it could withstand a coordinated nation-class cyberattack. If we can really do "anything we want and they can't stop us". That sort of Government action is almost unprecedented so Bitcoin can still be successful- it will just need to be more civilized than some members wish to be. What do you think Gavin has been trying to do in all those interviews?


Well whatever you've seen you should tell the developers because they've been insisting the opposite and trying to put a good face on Bitcoin. Once they realize that they were wrong and it's "unstoppable" maybe they won't have to bother.

If Bitcoin is not unstoppable from a technical point of view, then it's already dead in the water. Has anyone really claimed this?

We are talking about the ENTIRE bitcoin network here.

I think we are all aware that a person can potentially be arrested, jailed, tortured, raped for having bitcoins (if a law were made against them).

Likewise, I think we are all aware that our rights are being destroyed.

Also just look at wikileaks, this was supposedly the biggest fucken national security leak EVER. Yet, to this very day I could go online AND EASILY find all the leaked cables on THOUSANDS of mirrored servers. Seems to me like the government couldn't do jack to stop wikileaks, just throwing twigs at wikileak's steal plated armor. The wikileaks team probably just laughs at it.

Lets get this straight, if the US government or any other government can't stop the biggest fucken national security leak ever, what makes you think they can stop a massive p2p currency exchange network? Which has tens of thousands, potentially hundreds of thousands of nodes operating in every single country in the entire world. The ONLY way bitcoin can be stopped is if EVERY SINGLE country works together to stop it. We've all seen how great these countries are at negotiating. Iran would jump on bitcoin in a second if they knew it could collapse the dollar.

From what I've seen the government can't do jack to stop bitcoin except throw a twig ever now and then.

Easily. If there is one persistent fallacy that is repeated over and over again on these forums, that needs to be put to rest it's this "Bitcoin is unstoppable" and "we don't need anyone" foolishness. The Developers don't think it's unstoppable- and they know the code back to front.

Buh buh... Bittorrent! Bittorrent is a copyright issue, currency is potentially a National Security Issue. There is a world of difference between Judicial Enforcement (taking your domain away) and National Security Enforcement. We have seen the US government take limited judicial action against cybercrime- yet people judge their capabilities by that. Only one time have we seen them use tactical measures against a cyber-threat. These are the people who brought us Stuxnet- pardon me for unladylike language but they get the nod and they will f*ck your sh*t up.

Tough talk aside, push comes to shove you are not going to take on USCYBERCOM from your living room couch.

Every lawyer I have asked has insisted there are a dozen ways under interpretation of CURRENT laws Bitcoin could be made illegal for all practical purposes. Then all they have to do is scare off enough users that there are too few remaining for the currency to be viable for trade.

There are already illegal forms of data, already laws governing the legal use of encryption, already warrentless search and seizure of data carrying devices during traffic stops and border crossings- you have VERY few privacy rights on your data storage devices. Asset forfeiture laws already put the burden on YOU to prove where your assets come from. The IRS is already imposing it's will on foreign banks around the world- and getting compliance. Bitcoin is compliant with Islamic banking law- no usury, what do you think is going to happen when the Arabic forum goes live here? You think the Feds are going to be wringing their hands wishing they could do something but we're just too clever for them?

Don't care if they make it illegal? Going to fight the power? Okay, lets hope every last one of you had been on Tor or an overseas proxy every single time you logon- because the Bitcoin.org server, with it's entire membership database and IP logs are located in the US and could be subpoenaed in a heart beat.

Make people scared to use bitcoin? No problem. All they have to do is drop a few USB sticks in the evidence box next time they bring down a KP ring and every soccer mom in the country will be screaming "won't somebody think of the children!". No one is going to use and trade a currency if it means getting dragged into court for possessing ChildRapeCoins and becoming a registered sex offender. Oh sure- they don't have a case, you're right- but no prosecutor is going to let that loss go on his record (soft on KP, the guy got off on a technicality) and 100k USD later you'll plead it down after your mugshot has been plastered all over the web. People are getting jailed for possessing cartoons- it can happen.

So can it with the "unsinkable ship" "they can't stop us" talk. Yes. They. Can. That does not mean they will- but it's pure hubris of the most ignorant sort to think it can't.

Not necessarily. Because of the free nature of Bitcoin, your 'bitcoin bank' might be a geek friend down the road. Or a community lending scheme that you trust. Or an independently audited fund (like the Sprott silver fund). These things become possible with Bitcoin.

Its not essentially the same thing, you are not aware of how our banking system works. You are right with what you said above but the key difference is another:

A BTC-bank can only lend what it possess, no matter if own funds our customer savings. If the webwallets/accounts of customers + own funds add up 100k btc (e.g.), the btc-bank can only lend 100k btc maximum, because each bitcoin is unique.

A Dollar/Euro/etc.-bank can lend 20+++ times the money it possess in own funds and customer accounts. 100k$ in funds+accounts lead to millions of loans.

Think of btc as of gold. A gold-bank can only lend whats physically in their safe. They cannot create 100k ounce of gold out of 5k.

Easily be stopped? Hardly. You have to realize that the government is slow to react. Even if the US outlaws bitcoins or another countries does then there are still 200+ other countries where it is legal. The bitcoin economy in those countries could still be growing and it might get to the point where the US wants a piece of this action so they legalize bitcoins again.