Kentucky Derby Winner fails drug test

South Park

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Quote from: Lanatsa on May 18, 2021, 03:27:13 PM

Quote from: South Park on May 18, 2021, 03:14:43 PM

Quote from: kotajikikox on May 14, 2021, 10:29:00 PM

This is a proof that every sports either Human is in act or animal will is always prone to cheating and being rigged.

this really ends the games losing fans and trust.

I may choose separate game now, because i al a fan of Horse racing in my college time but since then there are rumors about having not fair in the system.

It is such a shame because people keep thinking only on their personal gain, however if it is to be believed those people love the sport it is incredible they do not understand that by doing this they are killing the interest people may have on the sport, after all the Kentucky Derby is not only another race, it is an event that people use to have fun and even show their hats and other ridiculous stuff like that, the fact that one of the trainers cheated will without a doubt affect the attendance and the ratings for the event during the next years.

Its already tainted not only into this sports but also with other sports as well where there are rigged proven games but its really hard that we would tell that no one would really be interested anymore in future years because these kind of situations aren't really that often to happen.

Yes, it happened but later on it would be forgotten or simply the issue would just pass away and move on but still impressions does really last and whenever people are aware
about possible rigged games then that cant really be removed once known.

This is really pulling out the entertainment and interest because we know the tendency for it to be rigged or not real.

I am not saying that it will kill the interest on the race completely but just to give an example, not long ago a horse won the triple crown, 40 years have passed since the last horse achieved that feat which meant that every single year there was a great interest from the people that love the sport to know when this will happen again, since this happened in such an important race those that have an interest on the sport but that are not die hard fans will probably not give too much attention to the next race, decreasing the ratings and the attendance to the sport just when they need it the most as the pandemic was hard on everyone.

Lanatsa

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Quote from: South Park on May 18, 2021, 03:14:43 PM

Quote from: kotajikikox on May 14, 2021, 10:29:00 PM

This is a proof that every sports either Human is in act or animal will is always prone to cheating and being rigged.

this really ends the games losing fans and trust.

I may choose separate game now, because i al a fan of Horse racing in my college time but since then there are rumors about having not fair in the system.

It is such a shame because people keep thinking only on their personal gain, however if it is to be believed those people love the sport it is incredible they do not understand that by doing this they are killing the interest people may have on the sport, after all the Kentucky Derby is not only another race, it is an event that people use to have fun and even show their hats and other ridiculous stuff like that, the fact that one of the trainers cheated will without a doubt affect the attendance and the ratings for the event during the next years.

Its already tainted not only into this sports but also with other sports as well where there are rigged proven games but its really hard that we would tell that no one would really be interested anymore in future years because these kind of situations aren't really that often to happen.

Yes, it happened but later on it would be forgotten or simply the issue would just pass away and move on but still impressions does really last and whenever people are aware
about possible rigged games then that cant really be removed once known.

This is really pulling out the entertainment and interest because we know the tendency for it to be rigged or not real.

South Park

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Quote from: kotajikikox on May 14, 2021, 10:29:00 PM

This is a proof that every sports either Human is in act or animal will is always prone to cheating and being rigged.

this really ends the games losing fans and trust.

I may choose separate game now, because i al a fan of Horse racing in my college time but since then there are rumors about having not fair in the system.

It is such a shame because people keep thinking only on their personal gain, however if it is to be believed those people love the sport it is incredible they do not understand that by doing this they are killing the interest people may have on the sport, after all the Kentucky Derby is not only another race, it is an event that people use to have fun and even show their hats and other ridiculous stuff like that, the fact that one of the trainers cheated will without a doubt affect the attendance and the ratings for the event during the next years.

Fortify

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Quote from: harizen on May 11, 2021, 03:37:14 PM

Quote from: Fortify on May 09, 2021, 03:50:51 PM

I wonder how this affects bookmakers and gamblers who have paid out winners, because these sort of annual competitions can drive many tens of millions of bets? Will people be expected to pay winnings back? Are people who bet on the real non-cheating winner going to be compensated? Are the event organizers going to try and hide this so these difficult questions will not have to be answered?

As far as the common terms of a gambling site are concerned, there will be no compensation for those who bet on the losing side as the bets are already finished and the winnings are distributed properly fair and square.

However, gamblers might hesitate to bet again on the horse involved.

As per the article, the trainer is shocked at what happened so we can judge things right away. Remember that the winning horse in the subject and its trainer already has an established name in the world of Derby.

That's a good point, how all bets are final but if you think of it another way - it's really not fair when discovering the winner actually cheated. Considering it is held in America, I wonder if the trainer or maybe even the event organizers can be sued by gamblers who would have won when the result ends up in the winner being changed. Considering it is the second time this trainer has had a horse disqualified from an event, you might have expected them to do extra anti-cheating checks prior to the event to ensure the integrity of the result. It appears something has to happen or hopefully people will stop throwing their money away on the Kentucky Derby.

michellee

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Quote from: mediaBuzz on May 15, 2021, 09:36:21 AM

Quote from: michellee on May 15, 2021, 08:51:19 AM

Quote from: kotajikikox on May 14, 2021, 10:29:00 PM

This is a proof that every sports either Human is in act or animal will is always prone to cheating and being rigged.

this really ends the games losing fans and trust.

I may choose separate game now, because i al a fan of Horse racing in my college time but since then there are rumors about having not fair in the system.

Yes, but even if the sports getting cheat and being rigged, the audience and the bettor seem not to care because as long as they can enjoy the sports and make money from the betting, they will not complain. They will not stop betting and if they see that the sports are rigged so hard, they will search for the other sports and continue to bet. That will happen to the audience and they will not have a problem finding out the other sports and enjoy the game.

I think he meant the fan audience, not the betting audience. As a former addicted sports fan who spent a lot on match tickets and branded merch, I can confirm that any cheating in a competitive sports competition causes hate from both the opponent fans and the team's own fans as well.

If the sports lose their audience, they will need more work to get their trust to come back to the sports. And if the game getting rigged, they need to clean the mess and show it to the audience, now they are clean and the audience can back to the game and watch the show. When the audience is gone, it will not be easy to rise and give a good performance because the audience is everything to the sports. Without the audience, sports will not be popular.

Rengga Jati

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In fact, this is not the first time this kind of unfair ways conducted by players to win championships.
And that deception is also commonly about using prohibited drugs.
Well, this may seem strange because commonly players will do some medical tests before playing. Or how they could pass it?

And about this case. Sure. The gamblers will feel unfair and also disapointed with this bad news because they fall into something wrong. However. i am not sure that the winning gamblers will give the rewards to the opposites because of this kind of fraud.

mediaBuzz

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Quote from: michellee on May 15, 2021, 08:51:19 AM

Quote from: kotajikikox on May 14, 2021, 10:29:00 PM

This is a proof that every sports either Human is in act or animal will is always prone to cheating and being rigged.

this really ends the games losing fans and trust.

I may choose separate game now, because i al a fan of Horse racing in my college time but since then there are rumors about having not fair in the system.

Yes, but even if the sports getting cheat and being rigged, the audience and the bettor seem not to care because as long as they can enjoy the sports and make money from the betting, they will not complain. They will not stop betting and if they see that the sports are rigged so hard, they will search for the other sports and continue to bet. That will happen to the audience and they will not have a problem finding out the other sports and enjoy the game.

I think he meant the fan audience, not the betting audience. As a former addicted sports fan who spent a lot on match tickets and branded merch, I can confirm that any cheating in a competitive sports competition causes hate from both the opponent fans and the team's own fans as well.

michellee

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Quote from: kotajikikox on May 14, 2021, 10:29:00 PM

This is a proof that every sports either Human is in act or animal will is always prone to cheating and being rigged.

this really ends the games losing fans and trust.

I may choose separate game now, because i al a fan of Horse racing in my college time but since then there are rumors about having not fair in the system.

Yes, but even if the sports getting cheat and being rigged, the audience and the bettor seem not to care because as long as they can enjoy the sports and make money from the betting, they will not complain. They will not stop betting and if they see that the sports are rigged so hard, they will search for the other sports and continue to bet. That will happen to the audience and they will not have a problem finding out the other sports and enjoy the game.

kotajikikox

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This is a proof that every sports either Human is in act or animal will is always prone to cheating and being rigged.

this really ends the games losing fans and trust.

I may choose separate game now, because i al a fan of Horse racing in my college time but since then there are rumors about having not fair in the system.

uneng

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Check this site for more informations: What Happens If A Result Changes After A Bet Has Been Settled?

Once the official game result is announced and the gamblers who made the correct predictions are paid there is no turning back. The result may change later due to an issue like cheating, but the prizes won't be paid to the real gamblers winners and the bookmakers won't get the money back from the previously paid gamblers.

In horse racing there is a particularity though, because if the horse you bet is the winner, but for some reason the official result declares another horse as the winner you will still get paid by bookmakers. But the point here is that the official result comes after the results change. With cheating it's the opposite, the results change after the official result is released, after so much time of the race, so it isn't included on the particularity I mentioned and nobody else is going to be paid in this case anyway.

Darker45

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As to the gambling side of this, I think there will be no paying back. There will be no revocation of results because it is futile to do so. Funds have already been released. There is no point demanding the money back because it cannot be expected to be returned by the winners either.

I think there will always be a presumption of regularity among matches, so on the betting site's side they cannot be blamed as well. They have no prior knowledge whatsoever of the real deal. And as soon as winnings and prizes are already released, things are already beyond their control.

South Park

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Quote from: Timelord2067 on May 12, 2021, 08:22:16 PM

Lance Armstrong's whole career was based on the lie of being a Mr. Good Guy of the cycling profession only to have his wins exposed years later as being on the end of a needle filled with a chemical concoction.

In this instance, Horses are the innocent bystanders who are defenseless to whatever is injected into them. Armstrong consciously choose to put out his arm and be injected with chemicals; a horse doesn't give consent.

Any trainer/owner/physician/other who knowingly administers banned substances to any animal used in gambling should be banned for life.

Agreed, while the Armstrong scandal was huge in the sense that he won so many times before he was discovered and this damaged the reputation of the sport. this case is different in the sense that Armstrong knew he was cheating and did everything he could do to hide it, so at the end of the day that was his decision, in this case the horse was administered enhancing drugs which from that perspective makes this case worse as the horse cannot consciously cheat and was injected a bunch of stuff that most likely will have an effect over its overall health and life expectancy that it never asked for.

imstillthebest

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Quote from: South Park on May 10, 2021, 05:08:33 PM

This is such a sad news for me, one of the reasons why I like horse racing has to do with the fact the horse is never going to cheat, the horse just loves running and they are there making the best they can, it is the people that train them that cheat and I find it ironic that one of those horses that was found with some irregularities is called charlatan as this is the case for the trainer of the “winner” of this race, this without a doubt raises big questions about his previous wins, after all how many trainers can say they have won the Kentucky Derby 7 times? So I really hope there is an investigation about all of this, because not only this proves he cheated this time but there could be evidence he cheated every single time he won before.

7 times won is not much and a good trainer can achieve this record without the need to cheat but for this trainer that cheat he is not confident with what he can do that's why he ask help for illegal drugs .
it's not the horse fault but I feel sorry for it because it was abused and named charlatan that has a bad meaning but this name could fit better in its trainer .
The Name charlatan is suspicious and the trainer could have been investigated since the beginning but trainer could be good at hiding his illegal activities

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Lance Armstrong's whole career was based on the lie of being a Mr. Good Guy of the cycling profession only to have his wins exposed years later as being on the end of a needle filled with a chemical concoction.

In this instance, Horses are the innocent bystanders who are defenseless to whatever is injected into them. Armstrong consciously choose to put out his arm and be injected with chemicals; a horse doesn't give consent.

Any trainer/owner/physician/other who knowingly administers banned substances to any animal used in gambling should be banned for life.

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: Fortify on May 09, 2021, 03:50:51 PM

I wonder how this affects bookmakers and gamblers who have paid out winners, because these sort of annual competitions can drive many tens of millions of bets? Will people be expected to pay winnings back? Are people who bet on the real non-cheating winner going to be compensated? Are the event organizers going to try and hide this so these difficult questions will not have to be answered?

I hope the people who look after the Kentucky Derby deal with this fairly, openly and honestly - even if it will be an administrative nightmare to rescind the winner. Their reputation might suffer greatly if it is not handled well.

There wont be such changes and i dont believe that those winners would be giving out back those winnings on bookies which is impossible to happen.I dont know on whats the set-up on this one

yet they had already know that those bets were not really as it should be.Just like mentioned above about nullfying the results which is unlikely.So this is just an another

bad day that did really affect specially on to those losers and winners.

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What a nightmare. Surely there’s precedent for this sort of thing though. I occasionally hear about fighters being disqualified for positive tests after the event. I never really thought about how gambling houses handle issues like this though considering they can’t take back paid rewards.

YOSHIE

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To my knowledge, Baffert has stated that the test results received from Kentucky are positive, although, at this time Derby has not disqualified him, it needs further processing, Baffert claims his horse is great and brave in the race, Baffert does not accept any of that against allegations of cheating.

From the Baffert talks he will provide all the paperwork all of that in the day-to-day activities, but for now the Kentucky Derby is still investigating the win against Baffert, but if one day it is found cheating, the Kentucky Derby will immediately cancel the victory and declare Mandaloun the sole winner in this horse race, but it is not certain, if it is found.

And vice versa Baffert will do whatever is necessary to prove that the bet this time is a really fair and positive real official win without any elements of cheating, I think the win for Baffert is the final without any cancellations in the future.

dothebeats

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I don't think they will nullify the end result of the event, though, especially if the event is already long past. Organizations that handle these races would just impose fines at best, and would set an example for those who are caught using performance enhancement drugs on their horses. See how low the fine is for the previous instance of infraction? They don't care that much even though the evidence already presents itself in front of them.

As for the bets, everything is settled almost immediately, and I don't even think they would even nullify the event on their end as it's a lot of hassle for sure.

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In my opinion, this should be expected at times where performance enhancement drugs have been used not just by humans but also injected to animals and the conspiracy is so well established that almost everybody is involved. Another thing that almost surprised me is that we are talking about this, happening on the Kentucky Derby which is a prestigious horse race. This issue with the performance enhancement drugs will definitely leave a bitter taste to the reputation of the said Derby.

Ryker1

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Well, based on my study and research about this bookmaker and horses, I know that these happened since then. It started with a lot of different illegal drugs and there are times that the owners of the racing horses are playing too dirty in a way that they would sometimes sabotage their opponent’s horses and secretly make their horses injected with illegal drugs before drug testings. Some of the owners were found guilty of negotiating with the drug tester's doctors or veterinarians to give false results from the papers to ruin their opponent’s reputation as they could not fix the game because of it.
These are things that possibly happened here. Based on the articles, Baffert never admitted the result of the drug test and keeps on saying that it did not come from them or someone made it to them. But there is a chance that this might be true.

Topic: Kentucky Derby Winner fails drug test (Read 264 times)