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Topic: Kremlinbots (Read 759 times)

legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
December 17, 2018, 10:16:14 AM
#47
Quote
“What is clear is that all of the messaging clearly sought to benefit the Republican Party — and specifically Donald Trump,” the report says. “Trump is mentioned most in campaigns targeting conservatives and right-wing voters, where the messaging encouraged these groups to support his campaign. The main groups that could challenge Trump were then provided messaging that sought to confuse, distract and ultimately discourage members from voting.”

Quote
Researchers also noted that the data includes evidence of sloppiness by the Russians that could have led to earlier detection, including the use of Russia’s currency, the ruble, to buy ads and Russian phone numbers for contact information. The operatives also left behind technical signatures in computerized logs, such as Internet addresses in St. Petersburg, where the IRA was based.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/12/16/new-report-russian-disinformation-prepared-senate-shows-operations-scale-sweep/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e7064a2e96bf



Can anyone explain why such "investigations" leak so slowly and so meteredly? As we understand that all info has long been collected and ready to be published.

Yeah, your article behind a paywall is very convincing. "As you understand" you need to understand you have been sold a load of horse shit, and think you have a barrel of apples. Bite into one and see how it tastes.
copper member
Activity: 70
Merit: 2
December 17, 2018, 08:47:51 AM
#46
IRA in action.

They're here too, not just twitter.

Thought you meant the irish IRA. Must be awake working at the IRA for that reason.

It seems to me that this whole russian bot thing is massively over hyped. I doubt their influence is nearly as big as everyone thinks. It was proved recently that russia only spent $4,000 on the US election in 2016
copper member
Activity: 150
Merit: 30
December 17, 2018, 05:39:44 AM
#45
Quote
“What is clear is that all of the messaging clearly sought to benefit the Republican Party — and specifically Donald Trump,” the report says. “Trump is mentioned most in campaigns targeting conservatives and right-wing voters, where the messaging encouraged these groups to support his campaign. The main groups that could challenge Trump were then provided messaging that sought to confuse, distract and ultimately discourage members from voting.”

Quote
Researchers also noted that the data includes evidence of sloppiness by the Russians that could have led to earlier detection, including the use of Russia’s currency, the ruble, to buy ads and Russian phone numbers for contact information. The operatives also left behind technical signatures in computerized logs, such as Internet addresses in St. Petersburg, where the IRA was based.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/12/16/new-report-russian-disinformation-prepared-senate-shows-operations-scale-sweep/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e7064a2e96bf



Can anyone explain why such "investigations" leak so slowly and so meteredly? As we understand that all info has long been collected and ready to be published.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
November 30, 2018, 02:09:50 PM
#44

Actually expected you put some specific names here.
I see here RT&Sputnik links so won't even open it because after a story with a crucified boy, no self-respecting person will ever read this trash. To understand the idiocy level, it's enough to remember that this piece hit the "Motherland" tv series as an extremely clumsy work of Russian propaganda.
For those who missed this beauty
https://vidos.top/v/1802268.mp4?st=6Hu2hxnX5Jgr_AP3UraGMg&e=1543578715




https://off-guardian.org/2016/11/05/ukraine-fascisms-toe-hold-in-europe/
Oleh Tyahnybok is considered a nationalist in Ukraine, but at the same time has been spotted in connections with Russians. I remind you that in 2014 it was his proposal to ban Russian language that was happily taken up by Russian propaganda and provoked violence in Donbas. Nevertheless, in 2014 his party gained 4.71% and now not even on the map.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/29/ukraine-fascists-oligarchs-eu-nato-expansion
Quote
On the 2014 annexation of Crimea, Milne wrote that "western aggression and lawless killing is on another scale entirely from anything Russia appears to have contemplated, let alone carried out – removing any credible basis for the US and its allies to rail against Russian transgressions",[89] and has described the annexation as "clearly defensive",[90] asserting that "the crisis in Ukraine is a product of the disastrous Versailles-style break-up of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s".[89] Oliver Bullough, a journalist who formerly lived in Russia, disagreed with this view, asserting that "the destruction of the USSR was not some Versailles-style treaty imposed from outside.

Srsly? You want me to reply that?

Quote
Svoboda took a strong leadership position in the Euromaidan coup that grew from a non-violent protest to a militant takeover of the country when far-right organizers began attacking, and eventually killing 17 while injuring nearly 300 law enforcement and anti-EU demonstrators.
Let's start with the fact that there were no "anti-EU demonstrators". There were people from the regions who were brought to Kyiv to the paid "rally".
Author for some reason forgot to mention more than a hundred protesters killed by snipers.

Quote
The Donbass War arose in 2014 when the residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk Oblasts took up arms against the Ukrainian junta and declared themselves independent republics
There was no war between the residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk Oblasts and Ukrainian junta(sic). Russian military (personnel and retired) came to the region and began to seize administrative buildings. That's how it started.

I won't continue because the whole article is written in this vein.
I feel like I ate shit.
To summarize, I want to say that you've proved that all you can do is talk rubbish based on dubious sources.

Hey if you can't argue the contents, attack the source. It is a lot simpler. I am not claiming every last word in those sources are reputable, but they also contain documentation of matters of fact, events, quotes, history that can be verified via 3rd party sources. This premise is by no means some fringe conspiracy theory is the point as this is a widely held view outside of the general Western MSM echo chamber. This is covert warfare, nothing is ever going to be clearly outlined, or be exactly what it appears to be. I have nothing else to say on this topic unless you want to start a specific thread related to it, as it is too far off topic for this one.

That said, once again this is yet aanother side issue and red herring to distract from the more relevant point that Crimea was a CRITICAL STRATEGIC MILITARY ASSET for Russia. Without this, their only warm water port, their navy would be largely neutered. Now this is not justification for any of their actions, past the point of maybe an argument for self preservation of the nation. Given the historical relationship between the two nations, I don't see them taking control of the military base/port as completely unexpected or unreasonable.

It would be like if the US had a military base in Puerto Rico forever and it suddenly declared independence, only the US wouldn't depend on a base in Puerto Rico, Russia does depend on controlling their base in Crimea however. In such an instance I don't think many nations would try to stand in the way of the US maintaining its base if it had such a critical relationship to its national security.
copper member
Activity: 150
Merit: 30
November 30, 2018, 06:27:00 AM
#43
^__^

Actually expected you put some specific names here.
I see here RT&Sputnik links so won't even open it because after a story with a crucified boy, no self-respecting person will ever read this trash. To understand the idiocy level, it's enough to remember that this piece hit the "Motherland" tv series as an extremely clumsy work of Russian propaganda.
For those who missed this beauty
https://vidos.top/v/1802268.mp4?st=6Hu2hxnX5Jgr_AP3UraGMg&e=1543578715




https://off-guardian.org/2016/11/05/ukraine-fascisms-toe-hold-in-europe/
Oleh Tyahnybok is considered a nationalist in Ukraine, but at the same time has been spotted in connections with Russians. I remind you that in 2014 it was his proposal to ban Russian language that was happily taken up by Russian propaganda and provoked violence in Donbas. Nevertheless, in 2014 his party gained 4.71% and now not even on the map.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/29/ukraine-fascists-oligarchs-eu-nato-expansion
Quote
On the 2014 annexation of Crimea, Milne wrote that "western aggression and lawless killing is on another scale entirely from anything Russia appears to have contemplated, let alone carried out – removing any credible basis for the US and its allies to rail against Russian transgressions",[89] and has described the annexation as "clearly defensive",[90] asserting that "the crisis in Ukraine is a product of the disastrous Versailles-style break-up of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s".[89] Oliver Bullough, a journalist who formerly lived in Russia, disagreed with this view, asserting that "the destruction of the USSR was not some Versailles-style treaty imposed from outside.

Srsly? You want me to reply that?

http://liberationschool.org/the-roots-of-fascism-in-ukraine/

Quote
Svoboda took a strong leadership position in the Euromaidan coup that grew from a non-violent protest to a militant takeover of the country when far-right organizers began attacking, and eventually killing 17 while injuring nearly 300 law enforcement and anti-EU demonstrators.
Let's start with the fact that there were no "anti-EU demonstrators". There were people from the regions who were brought to Kyiv to the paid "rally".
Author for some reason forgot to mention more than a hundred protesters killed by snipers.

Quote
The Donbass War arose in 2014 when the residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk Oblasts took up arms against the Ukrainian junta and declared themselves independent republics
There was no war between the residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk Oblasts and Ukrainian junta(sic). Russian military (personnel and retired) came to the region and began to seize administrative buildings. That's how it started.

I won't continue because the whole article is written in this vein.
I feel like I ate shit.
To summarize, I want to say that you've proved that all you can do is talk rubbish based on dubious sources.



legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
November 30, 2018, 12:34:03 AM
#42
My thread is still alive but definitely went the wrong way.

put in place actual open fascists...

I know that you like to demand proof so now it's my time to ask. This is quite bold statement, so I'm sure that you got some.



I can prove the fascism, but I think what you are asking is for me to prove that Western intelligence agencies overthrew the elected government. This is always going to be largely debatable due to the very nature of the business of this criminal activity, and the need for plausible deniability, but I think you know this and are taking advantage of this situation. If you want information regarding fascism in the Ukraine let me know I will provide sources.

If you actually have interest in the details of how it was done start a thread about the topic and I will chime in, however I suspect you did this to try to give the impression that I don't meet my own standards of evidence. The difference is this is a related side issue, not the core topic of discussion, and I demand evidence for direct arguments in support of a premise. You are nitpicking a tertiary issue of a somewhat casual discussion.

I won't start anything. You came to my thread with a serious allegation, I expect that you have strong evidence of this since we can't assume that your an empty windbag.
So again please

put in place actual open fascists...


I already responded to your criticism, and stated I am more than willing to discuss it. Due to the inherently speculative nature of how real world intelligence operations operate systematically erasing as much data leaving a trail to them as possible, a discussion about this would be quite expansive to the point of being quite off topic in this thread, something which I am not willing to risk to satiate your demands. If you start another thread to discuss this side topic in more detail I would be glad to there, I will however not be addressing it further here.

Anyways lets start with what is already in the open:

http://liberationschool.org/the-roots-of-fascism-in-ukraine/

https://off-guardian.org/2016/11/05/ukraine-fascisms-toe-hold-in-europe/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/29/ukraine-fascists-oligarchs-eu-nato-expansion

https://medium.com/@gmochannel/us-staged-a-coup-in-ukraine-brief-history-and-facts-898c6d0007d6

https://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/22758-meet-the-americans-who-put-together-the-coup-in-kiev

Obama admitted that the United States “had brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine.”

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/228379-obama-power-transition-ukraine/


https://sputniknews.com/news/201502021017670687/

https://www.rt.com/news/233439-us-meddling-ukraine-crisis/

https://www.rt.com/news/158800-us-biden-ukraine-gas/


​Ron Paul: Western powers fomenting Ukrainian conflict, US should ‘stay out’  

https://www.rt.com/usa/156512-ron-paul-ukraine-war/

copper member
Activity: 150
Merit: 30
November 29, 2018, 12:28:47 PM
#41
My thread is still alive but definitely went the wrong way.

put in place actual open fascists...

I know that you like to demand proof so now it's my time to ask. This is quite bold statement, so I'm sure that you got some.



I can prove the fascism, but I think what you are asking is for me to prove that Western intelligence agencies overthrew the elected government. This is always going to be largely debatable due to the very nature of the business of this criminal activity, and the need for plausible deniability, but I think you know this and are taking advantage of this situation. If you want information regarding fascism in the Ukraine let me know I will provide sources.

If you actually have interest in the details of how it was done start a thread about the topic and I will chime in, however I suspect you did this to try to give the impression that I don't meet my own standards of evidence. The difference is this is a related side issue, not the core topic of discussion, and I demand evidence for direct arguments in support of a premise. You are nitpicking a tertiary issue of a somewhat casual discussion.

I won't start anything. You came to my thread with a serious allegation, I expect that you have strong evidence of this since we can't assume that your an empty windbag.
So again please

put in place actual open fascists...




legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
November 29, 2018, 12:10:30 PM
#40
My thread is still alive but definitely went the wrong way.

put in place actual open fascists...

I know that you like to demand proof so now it's my time to ask. This is quite bold statement, so I'm sure that you got some.



I can prove the fascism, but I think what you are asking is for me to prove that Western intelligence agencies overthrew the elected government. This is always going to be largely debatable due to the very nature of the business of this criminal activity, and the need for plausible deniability, but I think you know this and are taking advantage of this situation. If you want information regarding fascism in the Ukraine let me know I will provide sources.

If you actually have interest in the details of how it was done start a thread about the topic and I will chime in, however I suspect you did this to try to give the impression that I don't meet my own standards of evidence. The difference is this is a related side issue, not the core topic of discussion, and I demand evidence for direct arguments in support of a premise. You are nitpicking a tertiary issue of a somewhat casual discussion.
copper member
Activity: 150
Merit: 30
November 29, 2018, 11:02:37 AM
#39
My thread is still alive but definitely went the wrong way.

put in place actual open fascists...

I know that you like to demand proof so now it's my time to ask. This is quite bold statement, so I'm sure that you got some.

member
Activity: 266
Merit: 42
The rising tide lifts all boats
November 28, 2018, 01:29:44 PM
#38
It seems to me that intelligence operatives within the US and EU establishment cartels moved to overthrow the government of Ukraine and put in place actual open fascists... until that point Russia had no reason to "take Crimea back". However as it is Russia's only warm water port it is of critical strategic military importance, and letting it fall into the sphere of US/EU influence was unacceptable to Russia. Given as how Ukraine was never expected to be divided in this way, I am not at all shocked Russia seized Crimea as the West creeps further East.
And it looks like they (establishment cartels) want no more of the current Ukrainian President.
So they cornered him into this Martial Law mess.
But the fight to return Crimea actually began in 1954 (the decision to transfer it was dissented widely), became critical in 1991, when then President of Russia "gifted it again" along with Sevastopol (which was separate) and temporarily lost in 1994 when Ukraine restored control. However, Ukraine failed to "decommunise" and "derussify" the region, and neglected it's economy, so 20 years later it was possible to seize it.
The only people who miss "Ukrainian times" are those who were using the relative lawlessness of 1994-2014 to their advantage. They had a lot of Ukrainian tourists coming in, but Ukraine was richer and could afford vacations in Crimea in those years. Those business people earned their money during the tourist season and did nothing the rest of the year, which became difficult now.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
November 28, 2018, 01:19:43 PM
#37
They are also pushing the rhetoric of violence and civil war to the point people are physically attacking people just for wearing a MAGA hat.
Same here. Numerous people were attacked in Ukraine for wearing Order_of_St._George ribbon. Originally established November 26, 1769 as the highest military decoration of the Russian Empire by Empress Catherine the Great.
Which is now, in post-Soviet era a symbol of victory in WWII as unifying fact of history for post-Soviet countries. It's officially prohibited in UA unlike MAGA hats in US (yet).
At the same time, you can wave Ukrainian flag in Russia (even in Crimea) and nothing happens (apart from maybe some uneasy looks in your direction - not more). So the level of tolerance is really different.

Interesting also (I was long overlooking this fact in my analysis) that 'gift' of Crimea to Ukrainian SSR was widely rationalised and explained in USSR as 300-years celebrating gift of Union of Pereyaslavl Rada when the successor of Rus of Kiev merged with Moscovy, ending its occupation by Poland/Lithuania. The gift was a "sacrifice" made by Russia in 1954 to immortalise the Union. And neglected politically and economically by Ukraine all the way until 2014 when they suddenly wanted it back.

It seems to me that intelligence operatives within the US and EU establishment cartels moved to overthrow the government of Ukraine and put in place actual open fascists... until that point Russia had no reason to "take Crimea back". However as it is Russia's only warm water port it is of critical strategic military importance, and letting it fall into the sphere of US/EU influence was unacceptable to Russia. Given as how Ukraine was never expected to be divided in this way, I am not at all shocked Russia seized Crimea as the West creeps further East.
member
Activity: 266
Merit: 42
The rising tide lifts all boats
November 28, 2018, 11:40:23 AM
#36
They are also pushing the rhetoric of violence and civil war to the point people are physically attacking people just for wearing a MAGA hat.
Same here. Numerous people were attacked in Ukraine for wearing Order_of_St._George ribbon. Originally established November 26, 1769 as the highest military decoration of the Russian Empire by Empress Catherine the Great.
Which is now, in post-Soviet era a symbol of victory in WWII as unifying fact of history for post-Soviet countries. It's officially prohibited in UA unlike MAGA hats in US (yet).
At the same time, you can wave Ukrainian flag in Russia (even in Crimea) and nothing happens (apart from maybe some uneasy looks in your direction - not more). So the level of tolerance is really different.

Interesting also (I was long overlooking this fact in my analysis) that 'gift' of Crimea to Ukrainian SSR was widely rationalised and explained in USSR as 300-years celebrating gift of Union of Pereyaslavl Rada when the successor of Rus of Kiev merged with Moscovy, ending its occupation by Poland/Lithuania. The gift was a "sacrifice" made by Russia in 1954 to immortalise the Union. And neglected politically and economically by Ukraine all the way until 2014 when they suddenly wanted it back.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
November 28, 2018, 11:30:08 AM
#35
Whatever it takes for you to continue the delusion that Trump was not legally voted in.
Does the legality REALLY matter that much?
Trump is an expression of a social phenomenon, or, rather, a host of phenomena.
They are an effect of certain causes. Better look at the causes, than argue endlessly/fruitlessly about his legitimacy.

I understand the phenomena that brought Trump into office, it is one happening all over the world. It is important because this is the premise by which the establishment chooses to attempt to delegitimize Trump, and deny that his actions are by mandate of the people. They are also pushing the rhetoric of violence and civil war to the point people are physically attacking people just for wearing a MAGA hat. There have also been attempted assassinations and serious life threatening assaults on Republican lawmakers. It is important because their entire argument hinges on the lie that Russia was involved in putting Trump into office, and not the mandate of the people. I agree the argument is counterproductive, but I am not one who agrees with the premise Russia had any serious influence over getting Trump elected.

member
Activity: 266
Merit: 42
The rising tide lifts all boats
November 28, 2018, 08:23:05 AM
#34
Whatever it takes for you to continue the delusion that Trump was not legally voted in.
Does the legality REALLY matter that much?
Trump is an expression of a social phenomenon, or, rather, a host of phenomena.
They are an effect of certain causes. Better look at the causes, than argue endlessly/fruitlessly about his legitimacy.

Color me unimpressed with these "facts." It really sounds like a total stretch to find any and everyone who ever once talked with a Russian or someone that knew a Russian.
Because of the excellent USSR education system (not entirely extinct even by now) and other properties of the Soviet regime many Western elite members have Russian wives. (You may argue that they are examples of Ruth/Jehudith Tanakh narratives, however, that would also be sensible). It usually takes one acquaintance away to get to someone with either wife or girlfriend. A Russian-Jewish one.

Funnily enough if you can pass as "Ukrainian" you get a votum of trust from the West. I may start putting "understand spoken Ukrainian" in the Languages section of my resume, and that would increase my chances with Western employers, I guess. (I hope to be mistaken about this, though). I really understand UA due to really interesting events happening in Ukraine, so I watch hours of TV and listen to radio. The next step up this ladder would be to understand spoken Polish without the subtitles.
legendary
Activity: 3178
Merit: 1363
Slava Ukraini!
November 27, 2018, 08:12:37 PM
#33
I see that Kremlin trolls become more active in recent days when crisis in Kerch strait started. Offcourse, they are blaming Ukraine, Poroshenko, even calling this as provocation from US. But it's very easy to spot fake troll profile - photo taken from internet, empty profile, bad grammar. Their arguments are weak and they can't make constructive discussion with real users. Offcourse, not all of them are trolls - big number of these people are just useful idiots brainwashed by russian propaganda.
I also don`t see why they would invade bitcointalk or just any forum for this matter. Forum is only a platform for people to share their opinions, they don`t even decide anything here.
You're not right. Yes, maybe Bitcointalk isn't their target audience, but as long as we have politics board, we can see some trolls here. I remember they were very active in Bitcointalk in past, but now they are not that visible now. Maybe they got banned or just now focused on other social media platforms.
full member
Activity: 390
Merit: 157
November 20, 2018, 02:23:40 AM
#32

Another additionak information , https://www.google.com.ph/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/mueller-indictment-internet-research-agency/amp
 I hope this link would help to somehow expand or to enchance your knowledge and also your perspective regards on the topic
jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 2
November 18, 2018, 12:21:05 PM
#31
I also don`t see why they would invade bitcointalk or just any forum for this matter. Forum is only a platform for people to share their opinions, they don`t even decide anything here.
As for activity of Russian bots in social media during those events mentioned, it doesn`t come as something surprising. The USA and Russia have always been on the hostile attitude towards one another, now only the methods are changed.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
November 18, 2018, 11:27:36 AM
#30
A few days ago, Twitter posted a database of tweets from a Russian "bot factory". Activity schedule in Russian (orange) and in English (red).
The orange peak is the period of the annexation of Crimea and downing Boeing MH17 over Donbas and the high red activity is the US presidential election.
As we know massive activity spotted at Facebook, Youtube, Reddit etc. 
So I wonder is any kremlinbots being caught here at bitcointalk or nobody cares?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DptlpFEWkAEubSC.jpg

For those who interested:
the whole database is here https://about.twitter.com/en_us/values/elections-integrity.html#data
tl;dr https://twitter.com/benimmo/status/1052545119826706433
Kremlin bots works for politics. What would they do here?
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
November 17, 2018, 04:45:12 PM
#29
....
Do you know how FBI interviews work? It is a crime to lie to them, a felony. Pound me in the ass federal prison time in fact.

Essentially in effect, if you make a material statement that is false in ANY WAY, they can decide to send you to prison.  If they ask you the color of the socks you were wearing and you thought they were white, but they were actually grey, you are in violation of the law. If you thought you had lunch with some one at 2:15 and it was 2:17, you can get sent to prison.

Essentially if they get more than about 5 minutes to talk to you they will be able to find some technicality to prosecute you over, or force you to plead guilty to a lesser charge.....

Anyone that does not believe this can simply google it. This is the way they work.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
November 17, 2018, 03:32:53 PM
#28

What I know for sure is if almost every member of your entourage has been seen in connections with Russians, you just cannot be clean as a whistle. Zero chances. Impossibru.

Quote
Well you are making a claim, yet you refuse to back it up with evidence. This would be quite a convenient cop out for a person with no evidence, but that is not you right? You have all the evidence in the world and presenting it is just beneath you. I mean what kind of heretic asks for evidence anyway right?


Took me 30 minutes.
1. Carter Page ( but admitted that he had worked as an informal adviser to the Russian government.https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/22/carter-page-acknowledges-working-as-informal-adviser-to-russia-735559
2. George Papadopoulos (A young foreign policy consultant whom President Trump once praised as an “excellent guy” is the first aide in the Trump campaign to plead guilty in the special counsel’s investigation into ties between the president’s associates and the Russian government.) https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/politics/george-papadopoulos-russia-trump.html
3. Michael Flynn (But White House officials said that Mr. Trump was merely acknowledging what had happened the day before: Mr. Flynn’s guilty plea for lying to the F.B.I. about his conversations with Mr. Kislyak.) https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/02/us/politics/trump-michael-flynn.html
4. Jeffrey “JD” Gordon (The adviser, Jeffrey “JD” Gordon, said he spoke to Sergey Kislyak at the Republican National Convention in July about Mr Trump’s desire to reset the strategic relationship.) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-adviser-jeffrey-jd-gordon-speak-russia-ambassador-sergey-kislyak-us-relations-isis-a7616436.html
Also let's not forget Jared Kushner and Trump junior.


So the entirety of your evidence is guilt via association? Ok, if that is fair game let us break down the association networks between the Democrat party and China shall we?

Guilt via association is of the flimsiest of arguments.

Do you know how FBI interviews work? It is a crime to lie to them, a felony. Pound me in the ass federal prison time in fact.

Essentially in effect, if you make a material statement that is false in ANY WAY, they can decide to send you to prison.  If they ask you the color of the socks you were wearing and you thought they were white, but they were actually grey, you are in violation of the law. If you thought you had lunch with some one at 2:15 and it was 2:17, you can get sent to prison.

Essentially if they get more than about 5 minutes to talk to you they will be able to find some technicality to prosecute you over, or force you to plead guilty to a lesser charge.

Did you know there is a conviction rate in the high 90%s in federal court? Do you know how they maintain numbers as high as 99.8%? They pile on penalties for everything until they have a choice between dying in prison or pleading guilty to whatever the fuck they tell them too, guilty of it or not. It is not hard AT ALL to manufacture these kinds of convictions, especially in an FBI shown to be ACTIVELY COMPLICIT in many of the crimes these people are going after.
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