Topic: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement - page 101. (Read 452224 times)

oh really??? Feck off

You purchased bonds, not shares.

Seems like all the bonds now are pretty much worthless or at least junk bond status. Companies like this have to stop folding or they'll continue to pull down cryptocurrency with it.

Mark Twain - “A gold mine is a hole in the ground with a liar on top.”

If Lab_rat things he is going to get away with all this... then he is as dumb as me who put money on him...

So what will happen when you eventually add more hardware? Will each bond still be deisngated for dividends at 300mh/s a share??

Thirdly, we have asked you about this before to no avail.  You have had plenty of time to act responsibly on this matter.

Also, Maryland corporation allows zero corp tax, as long as we don't host or sell bitcoin in their state.  It's easy peasy stuff.  Since bitcoin is being distributed as divs.

This is my opinion not legal advise.
Ok. I've been quietly watching this.  I have to call bullshit.  I don't know who your lawyer is, but this is complete crap/bullshit.

The solution here is to form a proper corporation with proper shares that pay profit dividends.  This is fully legal and within the financial capabilities of this group.  This is compliant with FinCEN and US law as to how to handle the profits of a company structured like LRM.  Please read the FinCEN administrative rulings closer.  It would also give the additional benefit of putting profits into capital gains.


Seriously, there is no reason we can't continue with the intend purpose of this consortium.


Source:
http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/rp/rulings/pdf/FIN-2014-R001.pdf  Page 3 paragraph 1


I see no reason for this current discussion to continue in the manner state by LRM.


In my understanding, the same structure we have can continue legally as a corporation with the following share structure:

Class A shares (commonly refered as founder shares or voting shares) can be held by LRM/Partners who currently control the company.
Class B & C shares (non-voting shares) can be distributed to other share holders.


this effectively creates the same thing we currently have and conforms to FinCEN/US law, as I understand it.  Of course you would want to pass this through a lawyer, but that's what we need to be pursuing, even if we hold some divs to pay for the process.   Anything else, and your just completely stealing from the promise you gave us coming into this and have effectively defrauded us of future growth/income promised.

Forming a proper corp, is not very expensive.  

Anyone remember Philip Moustakis, the senior SEC attorney who charged Trendon Shavers (pirateat40) with defrauding investors? https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/trendon-shavers-philip-moustakis-united-states-securities-exchange-commission-120759

Paraphrasing part of the OP in the above link: As per US securities law: if LRM ever made any misrepresentation or material omission to investors, on which they relied to make an investment decision in LRM's bitcoin securities offering, then securities laws were violated and SEC may be able to pursue civil prosecution. That's exactly what happened in the Shavers case.

LRM is peanuts compared to the scale of pirate's "Bitcoin Savings and Trust", but if people feel LRM is a case of investment fraud then Philip Moustakis would be a good starting point. He is easy to talk to and can be contacted by email ([email protected]) or phone (212-336-0542); his contact information is in the link above. At the very least, Philip can give an opinion on whether this situation warrants the SEC's attention.

I have no opinion on whether LRM defrauded investors or not; I am not an investor so I haven't been following all of LRM's promises from Day 1. But as a general statement I will say this: Whatever the scale, people must learn to realize that scams and frauds won't be tolerated by the bitcoin community; we've had way too many of them already. We continue to have them because people think they can get away with it; that scamming and defrauding is easy; that there won't be any repercussions. Pirateat40 was one of those people, and he won't be the last unless we, the community, continue to send strong messages that this type of behavior will not be tolerated.

Found an almost exact analogy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Shared_Agriculture

The way those work here is you buy a "share" in the commodities produced by the farm and each week you get your share of production. The people who buy shares don't own the farm, just it's output.

Find legal basis for those, structure LRM accordingly.

Price for Dave on PicoStock is lower... see here : https://picostocks.com/stocks/view/19

Price drop a lot because he announced lately than they don't add anymore Hashrate...

Labrat.

See this post and reply please.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5600207

I'm not sure how you did the math. But the basis of how much Labrat bought GH for is not as important as how much it can be sold for.
Current examples:

CEX.IO market shows 1 GH selling for ~BTC0.02
https://cex.io

Dave is leasing 1 GH for BTC0.04
https://megabigpower.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=68

If things are not easily resolved, then the solution is to operate the company with the cap, and use the bitcoin earned to start buying out bonds at some "fair" rate.  In this model, the number of bonds outstanding will always shrink which will help against shrinking divs, and the folks who are more patient will get these extra dividends as less patient people exit. LRM should be able to keep adding hardware with the 25%, so after extended time, everyone would be bought out.  This could be done by posting low asks in the trade forum, and keep raising it as more bitcoin is available.  The longer people are willing to wait, the more btc they can get for their bonds.  It's not perfect, but it means at least some people can get out.  Those willing to take the most risk and wait longer are rewarded with higher exit payouts, if LRM survives that long.

I would not agree with liquidating in hand hardware to pay off bondholders when there is a pile of BFL equipment coming and presumably a pile of BF equipment coming that bondholders SHOULD benefit from.

No one wins in that situation.  There would be heaps of drama with that situation and I think we can all work on a solution that doesn't involve drama.

I'm hoping LR is still looking for a way for the inbound equipment to benefit bondholders.

Lab Rat is paying around $4/GH for the 150TH of bitfury hardware....

Which makes bonds worth $0.40 each...

It also doesn't earn what it would have in May 2013... 6 month projections at 20% difficulty rise have 300Mh earning about 0.002 BTC total. Faced with this practically certain knowledge, bondholders would be highly delighted to cut out the risk of your further non-performance and attempt to get "in hand" prices on current hardware, which have been known to exceed 6 month earning projections.

As everybody should have realized after reading the last few pages:

LabRat; you will get sued (not by me or many others wo invested, but by investors who paid large amounts of BTC for a lot of SHARES); so fixing the "shares" at 300MH/s has to be out of option.
Also you would probably lose that lawsuit, because everything at this 173 page long thread indicates: "You are buying a share/stock or lets call it a "mining contract" in this company(LabRat), which intends to increase its value."
and not "You are buying a product which gives you xxx mh/s"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Offiicial Announcement for LabRat:
"It is intended installments in the operation will continue to occur which will provide more value to the company as well as more value to each individual bond as the company matures.
These expansions, if they occur, will likely grow the company and our mining capacity in size which will provide further expanded payouts in the form of dividends (or increased dividends to investors).
It is currently intended a portion of the money the company receives in revenue from bond sales and mining will be used to expand the operation which will further increase dividends per bond.
It is currently intended the company will be adding to the bondholders hashrate on a regular basis as the company expands so one should expect to receive greater dividends than those explained above."

There is also written this sentence: " it is intended these bonds will increase in hashrate per bond over time as an additional added bonus to the purchasers (although this is not guaranteed)."--->
this basically gives you the right to fix the hashrate per share, but everything you wrote after the ipo gives the expression that you will continually increase the hashrate( e.g. keeping 25% for increasing the hashrate)
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But honestly; nobody wants to get involved in a lawsuit, so we need to find another option and at the moment i see only two options:

1. LabRat continues business with another legal structure, where every bond holder now gets a shareholder from the former Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC.
    But this requires that LabRat really wants to continue this business;
   
    I personally believe that this is the best option; when all shareholder pull together, this can really be a profitable business.

2. LabRat steps aside and someone else continues this business, maybe in another jurisdiction, while Lab_Rat still keeps his shares in the new company.



Either way, as already said: Fixing the hashrate per share is not an option, because nobody will get lucky this way; not the shareholders because they will never get their money back and not LabRat because he will get sued, this is guaranteed.

Issues for you maybe, understand that this is how we will get the courts to take everything from you if you cannot come up with a better solution.