Topic: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement - page 159. (Read 452224 times)

Yeah this is the thing in the entire bitcoin "world". Everything is still calculated against $ or €. Can't blame anyone, I think it will take a longggg time before people stop doing this.
(reminds me of when my old currency got converted to  €, it took many years before people stopped calculating back to the old currency)
I think I've invested something like 12 BTC In shares. However, that was in the $80-$100 times. (so let's say $1200)
Right now the shares are worth roughly half of the original value, but the value went up by factor 10, so if I would sell them I would get like 7-8 BTC which is worth up to $7500
(all just some rough numbers)
But yeah if I would calculate how long it will take to get 12 BTC in dividends from LRM, that's going to take some time.

The question is also, am I doing this to in the end get $ or € to do let's say daily shopping and pay my bills, or am I doing this to actually spend the earned BTC directly on vendors accepting BTC?

I think it's all personal for everybody why he/she is doing this and what he/she is trying to achieve in the end.

It seems one problem with mining is that (some or most or all?) bitcoin mining hardware suppliers are pricing hardware for miners to have the incentive of obtaining a return on dollar value - not a return on bitcoin. Consider LRM, the price of bitcoins have went up about 900% since. If dollars was what you wanted to break even on, then bond holders will probably achieve that pretty easily if it hasn't happened already. But you will be struggling if you want a return on btc - which is what most bond buyers probably intended. This is why to me buying and holding bitcoin seems historically to be the consistent most winning move....with least headaches none-less!

Well said.

When comparing diff increase with hardware delivery and quantity, it appears quite imperative that
LRM get in on an ASIC project as an owner. Delivering ASIC hardware at cost can quite likely get this
PMB back in front of the diff curve and help us reach ROI. ASICMiner is the perfect example of just such
an approach. I'd really like to see our share price trading above 0.15BTC again.

A PMB is not a perpetual motion machine. In order to stay in motion, it must have some input source.
In this case, our "source" is installing hardware at cost rather than at wholesale (or even near retail)
price. Otherwise, in my opinion, we can all go home and watch the clock run down.

With out knowing what stage this ASIC project is at it's impossible to say if it is worth doing, we will just have to wait and see what lab-rat decides in a few weeks time.

All I have to say to that, sir... is...


When I hear LR say that.. it sounds to me like they are well past design and tapeout... and it is time to plunk down the hard cash for the fab to make the run. Needing 4 more weeks before he can go into detail makes it sound like they are in line for the fab run... and that the 4 weeks is to provide enough time to get chips in to verify yield and test in the boards that are probably already in hand (at least a first run).


I am with you here... we are well beyond standing in line for a pre-order or fully assembled miner from any other manufacturer, since LR already has BFs and Monarchs coming in the next few weeks. If we do not already have a spot in line for a 28nm or better ASIC in the coming months... this ASIC chip project is the ticket for LRM.

The extra BTC earned by the pre-mine period before the hashrate started working for us is to purchase equipment... to date... I would assume that means LR would have to place an order now and wait in line.... so... order current gen and wait a few weeks for delivery... or... place those funds into this project, and secure our future hardware at cost for the lifespan of that ASIC... if it is a 28nm or better... we just solidified future growth at cost for about 2 years... tell me where you can beat that and I will give you my 7 shares.

I will offer the dissenting opinion.  

Given the way equipment purchasing and dividends have been going, it appears our current model isn't working.  Labrat has done a fine job, but the progress on getting a return has been slim to none. The only way we will get our IPO bitcoin paid back is if we have some major market advantage and an extremely large mine size.  Granted, going in on an ASIC manufacturer is just as risky as placing preorders, but I agree this is the only solid choice for getting a 100% bitcoin return.  This means dirt cheap ASIC prices and likely the ability to queue jump.  Both of these have immeasurable value for keeping ahead of difficulty and getting miners delivered "yesterday."

Labrat has historically shown pristine judgement in how he allocates funds.  For this reason, I do not have any issues with the sudden shift in direction.  He would not put funds into an ASIC company if he wasn't absolutely confident in company and the return.

>I have a horrible feeling lab_rat is planning on using the two weeks of mining dividends to fund this asic chip idea and when the inevitable delays come from the asic chip this business will be in deep deep trouble.

I couldn't agree more. When I read LR's announcement about the ASIC investment, my stomach turned.

The road to a working ASIC is long and treacherous and its littered with the corpses of the failed. If bondholders could vote, I'd vote no. I didn't invest in an ASIC development company, I thought I was going to mine bitcoins. Mission creep is a killer.

Looking at my meager holding it's maybe double than last div - for me anyways.

Yeah those two weeks of mining dividends had better buy multiples of our total hashrate right now otherwise this venture is going downhill and fast. Doesn't look like all those bonds are gonna be sold either so what that means for the asic chip idea is anybody's guess right now.
I have a horrible feeling lab_rat is planning on using the two weeks of mining dividends to fund this asic chip idea and when the inevitable delays come from the asic chip this business will be in deep deep trouble.

Would you like to persuade me otherwise please lab-rat?

Has anyone done any math to figure out what value might be held with LRM bonds at 100TH? So far, my figures don't look spectacular... as always.. order time and difficulty are the neutralizer. I want to see mathematical reasoning for expecting any sustainability, if not growth.

BTW: I'm estimating dividends will yield ~BTC0.001225/bond this coming weekend... but... decaying down again in following weeks until any new hardware is received (well, after two weeks of separate mining).

How does 0.001225 compare to the best weekly div's to date of all other weeks? I'm going to take a guess that it's higher, but not much better than the next best - despite having 5 times more hashing power.  

So hashrate per share is about ~ 296 Mh/s after adding sales of new shares ?

Thought about it, but one bought 23 with over 570 for sale at 0.85 and 0.89, so no, thats not the answer =) Also paid 2.3 BTC, so no discount either.

Maybe they purchase in big quantities and don't want to go through multiple buyers (and maybe get a slight discount from LabRat for the quantity).

I understand the reasoning behind funding the proyect than buying from a user base, but not very logic to buy 15% over the market price, idk might be me.

I understand your perspective, but if it was a proven investment, that logic might work, so far, 5th and waiting, 25th next week same as the 5th return we were using to mine 2 months ago, a promise of 100th.

My math its simple, my investment on LRM buys 85gh on Cex.io... do i get the same return? so far just promises, but i'm still waiting, no patiently anymore

A reason I can think of is they want to support LRM and it's development.

Let's say you have 1000 shares which gives you 1BTC a week (yes, doesn't make sense, just for the discussion)
Let's say I have 1000 shares which I'm willing to sell for 5BTC.
And let's say LRM has 1000 shares for sale for 6BTC

Option 1 is you buy from me. It will cost you 5BTC, you get double income each week, LRM stays the same and your weekly income will stay at 2BTC
Option 2 is you buy from LRM. It will cost you a little more, you will still get the same double income, FOR NOW. Because here, you gave more money to LRM which allows them to reinvest it in all the big plans they have (their own chips, making larger purchases with suppliers, etc) So in time, if LRM pulls off all the deals, being made possible with your money, maybe your weekly income for 2000 shares will be 3BTC

Got it?

(i know, i know, really unrealistic numbers, but I hope you get the idea of what Im trying to explain)

Well if you come across another interested buyer, shuffle me in and ask them to msg me, if they want to pay 0.10 ill cut them a deal on my 68 shares

For myself, risk isnt a factor since Ive been with LRM from the beginning, and know the process that lead to the forum trading. I have no question in security, and trust 100% that If I want to buy or sell on here that everything will go smoothly. The issue as I see it lies in perceived credibility.

When new BTC investors are looking for places to put their money, having an automated trading process looks much more credible than forum trading. Having an in-house solution would most definitely remedy this. The other issue as I see it is that there are 2 separate forums for LRM. While this is necessary to isolate the trade threads, it makes it difficult for new buyers to see things like historical dividend payments, number of bonds sold, future company plans, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

I have been recommending that buyers contact the sellers in the trading thread.  However, at least one seller was not responding promptly to their PMs.

Other than that, I'm not sure.  I know if I was going to buy, I'd rather buy at 0.085 than 0.1, but who knows...


grnbrg.