Author

Topic: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement - page 225. (Read 452282 times)

hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do.

"I reserve the option to repurchase bonds at 110% of the highest traded price over the last 15 days."

might be a scam...



RTM Bonds -
Quote
The issuer can buy back the bond at any time at a price equal to 105% of the highest price the asset was traded on BitFunder over the prior 360 hours.

At current math,

a share at .0370 and a dividend at .00034064 (October 1st) will take 108+ weeks to pay off.


As for anyone worried about SEC intervention,

LRM will be the LEAST of everyone's worries if they decide to come full force like you guys are suggesting.
As has been said multiple times, he has retained a lawyer that has cleared him in good faith to operate his business like this. Maybe Zach can get a "legal opinion letter" from his lawyer (Maybe he already has one). Redact what needs redacted and post it here.

There's not much else he can do, this is the risk everyone takes in this uncharted territory, not Zach or Lab Rat Mining alone.

Edit: Realized bittymitty was talking about RTM not LRM (Sorry)
sr. member
Activity: 454
Merit: 252
"This is a privately held, nonpublicly traded company. This company and the PMB's being offered are not regulated by any governmental entities including the SEC or any other agency or board"

This is not regulated by any government entities or the SEC as per the statement above.

Did lab_Rat get confirmation from the government and SEC about this?  Why is it unlikely to happen?  What info have we been given about this apart from the above statement?  



Zach specifically structured LRM and the number of bonds to be a limited offering of a PRIVATE COMPANY. LRM is not intended to be a publicly traded company. He did this in consultation with a legal advisor and was deliberate in the approach in order to avoid the issues that might arise from regulatory scrutiny.

just because you put it in caps doesn't make it legal... Private companies are regulated by the SEC, too.

http://www.sec.gov/info/smallbus/qasbsec.htm#noreg

Quote
Non-public offering (private placement) exemption

Section 4(a)(2) of the Securities Act exempts from registration "transactions by an issuer not involving any public offering." To qualify for this exemption, which is sometimes referred to as the “private placement” exemption, the purchasers of the securities must:

  
  • either have enough knowledge and experience in finance and business matters to be “sophisticated investors” (able to evaluate the risks and merits of the investment), or be able to bear the investment's economic risk;
  • have access to the type of information normally provided in a prospectus for a registered securities offering; and
  • agree not to resell or distribute the securities to the public.


In general, public advertising of the offering, and general solicitation of investors, is incompatible with the non-public offering exemption.

The precise limits of the non-public offering exemption are not defined by rule. As the number of purchasers increases and their relationship to the company and its management becomes more remote, it is more difficult to show that the offering qualifies for this exemption. If your company offers securities to even one person who does not meet the necessary conditions, the entire offering may be in violation of the Securities Act.

Rule 506 provides objective standards that your company can rely on to meet the requirements of the Section 4(a)(2) non-public offering exemption. Rule 506 is part of Regulation D, which is described more fully below.

LRM is arguing that having threads on BFL forums and bitcointalk is not public advertising since it is a closed community of sophisticated investors, that they have made the prospectus available for on bitfunder, and that by keeping it on bitfunder it limits shares to a community of bitcoin experts.

there are really in the grey area of all of these (I've sen plenty of people on bitcointalk with limited to no knowledge or experience in finance or business, the prospectus is missing important information such as what fees actually are, and bitfunder allows anyone in the public to sign up with a bitcoin account), but it would be a difficulty case for the SEC to go after for now, and there are much worse companies that they should be looking in to.

LRM's real saving grace may be that they claim to be selling hardware derivatives. Your security is (in the eys of the SEC) worthless; LRM promises you no rights to assets nor facevalue. It will only generate derivative income off of bitcoin mining and is only worth what someone else is willing to pay you for it.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250

"I reserve the option to repurchase bonds at 110% of the highest traded price over the last 15 days."

might be a scam...

hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
has anyone noticed RTM? I guess he pays 100Mhs per bond and his price is like .02 or .03, Im too tired to do the math. but could someone compare his stock with our stock? Im sure ours is much better, but it would be nice to see what the competition is doing..
BKM
sr. member
Activity: 315
Merit: 250
"This is a privately held, nonpublicly traded company. This company and the PMB's being offered are not regulated by any governmental entities including the SEC or any other agency or board"

This is not regulated by any government entities or the SEC as per the statement above.

Did lab_Rat get confirmation from the government and SEC about this?  Why is it unlikely to happen?  What info have we been given about this apart from the above statement? 



Zach specifically structured LRM and the number of bonds to be a limited offering of a PRIVATE COMPANY. LRM is not intended to be a publicly traded company. He did this in consultation with a legal advisor and was deliberate in the approach in order to avoid the issues that might arise from regulatory scrutiny.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
I just found a post from Lab_Rat on the BFL forum that might be of interest(not FUD)

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bitcoin-business-directory/3712-lab-rat-data-processing-llc-labratmining-official-announcement-46.html

"I'm sorry to say but a good portion of this is inaccurate and incomplete. BFL is a small portion of the purchases made by LRM at this time, and it will not be a significant amount of time before hardware is received. It should be very soon that ~17-18 TH rolls in. That alone will put us at ~331 MH/s net being paid out to bondholders. Not to mention the other orders that should be rolling in 2-4 weeks following pushing past the 400MH/s mark and the 28nm orders later this year hopefully (and likely) pushing past 1 GH/s per bond.

The quantity of shares is correct though. I will sell shares at a rate as to not dilute the hashrate until 100k are sold. I will sell more in the future to expand, but there will be a good resting point at 100k. People will have to just understand that there are things that manufacturers have told me that I can't share and releasing the amount of hardware I have on order could compromise this. I promised a minimum of 100MH/s per bond and I'm shooting for at least 10 times that. What more do you want? "

1 GH per bond is music to my ears.

Lets hope the difficulty is relatively low when we do reach 1 GH per bond. Then again, if we can just keep up with the difficulty now, Id be happy... I have a feeling there are just a couple people snatching up cheap bonds at the .12 rate or lower... If you dont absolutely need the money, keep the price atleast what you spent on the bond. (not you guys that spent .10 either, lol) but if the bond price didn't dip below .15 Id be happy.

On the other hand, ive been thinking about being one of the ones snatching up the cheap bonds, lol.... so, do as you please, hehe...
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
I just found a post from Lab_Rat on the BFL forum that might be of interest(not FUD)

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bitcoin-business-directory/3712-lab-rat-data-processing-llc-labratmining-official-announcement-46.html

"I'm sorry to say but a good portion of this is inaccurate and incomplete. BFL is a small portion of the purchases made by LRM at this time, and it will not be a significant amount of time before hardware is received. It should be very soon that ~17-18 TH rolls in. That alone will put us at ~331 MH/s net being paid out to bondholders. Not to mention the other orders that should be rolling in 2-4 weeks following pushing past the 400MH/s mark and the 28nm orders later this year hopefully (and likely) pushing past 1 GH/s per bond.

The quantity of shares is correct though. I will sell shares at a rate as to not dilute the hashrate until 100k are sold. I will sell more in the future to expand, but there will be a good resting point at 100k. People will have to just understand that there are things that manufacturers have told me that I can't share and releasing the amount of hardware I have on order could compromise this. I promised a minimum of 100MH/s per bond and I'm shooting for at least 10 times that. What more do you want? "

1 GH per bond is music to my ears.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
What no FUD where is the fun in that  Grin 

all I can say is thank fud this is not labcoin
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
"This is a privately held, nonpublicly traded company. This company and the PMB's being offered are not regulated by any governmental entities including the SEC or any other agency or board"

This is not regulated by any government entities or the SEC as per the statement above.

Did lab_Rat get confirmation from the government and SEC about this?  Why is it unlikely to happen?  What info have we been given about this apart from the above statement? 



It's unlikely to happen because there are many bigger fish in the sea for them to go after - that's why they're going for exchanges, it's an all in one move. The individual companies are too much hassle (for now).

Also, if it's not being traded on an exchange then it's just an agreement between people, and no longer a security, right?

Anyway, any legal guesswork is pointless, it is whatever the SEC says it is. They have the lawyers and the money, so they will decide. After all, you don't have to have actually broken any laws to be prosecuted as if you have. One would hope that unless you had that you wouldn't be convicted, but anyone can go after anyone essentially, so let's just cross our fingers, and know that it's even more in LR's interest than it is ours to make sure this doesn't get shut down!

No FUD!
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
"This is a privately held, nonpublicly traded company. This company and the PMB's being offered are not regulated by any governmental entities including the SEC or any other agency or board"

This is not regulated by any government entities or the SEC as per the statement above.

Did lab_Rat get confirmation from the government and SEC about this?  Why is it unlikely to happen?  What info have we been given about this apart from the above statement? 

sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
I do take comfort in the fact that all the main trading stocks on Bitfunder are down not just lab_rat.  

Do you think people are trying to get out of the exchanges after the BTC-T shutdown?

If the SEC is going after the exchanges then Bitfunder could be next?  Also what are the chances of the SEC going after lab_rat for selling bonds on a unlicensed exchange?  At least we are safe while the government is shutdown....

Exchange shutdown is not issue whatsoever, look at ASICMiner post GLBSE. Going after LR himself, that's another issue, but very unlikely IMHO.

EDIT: And, more importantly, in his!
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
I do take comfort in the fact that all the main trading stocks on Bitfunder are down not just lab_rat. 

Do you think people are trying to get out of the exchanges after the BTC-T shutdown?

If the SEC is going after the exchanges then Bitfunder could be next?  Also what are the chances of the SEC going after lab_rat for selling bonds on a unlicensed exchange?  At least we are safe while the government is shutdown....
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Well someone keeps selling and collecting all the bids down to about .12 which is well below IPO.  So someone is selling at a loss and I am guessing this is one or more of the hardware sellers trying to get out.   Not sure why you would buy at IPO then sell at a loss unless you really didn't believe in the future of the mine. 

The volume is still very low though, I don't think this is particularly significant.

And so what if it is anyway? We get the same divs/bond either way, and once the new gear comes in that will improve greatly, and will likely be reflected in the bond price as well. Don't sweat!
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
Well someone keeps selling and collecting all the bids down to about .12 which is well below IPO.  So someone is selling at a loss and I am guessing this is one or more of the hardware sellers trying to get out.   Not sure why you would buy at IPO then sell at a loss unless you really didn't believe in the future of the mine. 
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Gold and Silver price both fell.

With the US government shutdown and the debt ceiling about to be hit again investor confidence is low.  When the US defaults on its debt then the people holding gold and BTC will be the winners.

Not sure why Lab_Rat continues to drop, I guess the large holders are desperate to get out of their positions even at a loss. 

That is not the case. The large holders are virtually all holding - watch the holdings if you don't believe me, they're all public!

The "fall" is a ridiculously low volume one. If many thousands of shares start changing hands at those prices then you can say that large holders are leaving and that price has actually fallen, until then, it's just low liquidity market crap and should be ignored.

If even one really big holder sells the price will plummet. On the other hand, if one equally big investor wants in, the price will rocket - this is what I mean by the fall not actually be representative.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
Gold and Silver price both fell.

With the US government shutdown and the debt ceiling about to be hit again investor confidence is low.  When the US defaults on its debt then the people holding gold and BTC will be the winners.

Not sure why Lab_Rat continues to drop, I guess the large holders are desperate to get out of their positions even at a loss. 
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
It would be interesting to know what discount he could get for a bulk order from KNC and how that would compare to the Bitfury prices. 

Seeing as both the deliveries will be in November it will be the gh/BTC that will make difference.

It think that ship has probably sailed either way...
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
okay, off topic here.. but silver and gold have nose dived the last couple days.. it might be a good time to turn a few coins into silver or gold..

Click the link in my signature if your interested...

They are great to work with and take bitcoins as payment. their prices are the best, even better than monex, if they aren't just call them and they will price match...

Dont know why it nose dived, but i think its a good time to turn a few coins into silver.. I like to diversify a little, not too much, but just a tad...

okay, back to lab rat mining....
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
It would be interesting to know what discount he could get for a bulk order from KNC and how that would compare to the Bitfury prices. 

Seeing as both the deliveries will be in November it will be the gh/BTC that will make difference.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Does this mean that Bitfury will have to drop their price to compete with the 28nm gear coming online soon?

If they dont, im sure Zach will be able to use KnC as ammunition to bring their prices down..
Jump to: