Topic: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement - page 37. (Read 452224 times)

This is incorect... you are assuming Zach is not going to sell future contracts diluting our payouts and that future hardware purchases will continue to pay a bonus to us... it wont... by this time next year... the Bitfury miners we just got will not operate at a profit against power costs.

The only savior in all this is when LRM finally gets their damn Imperial Monarchs, if that is the choice Zach made.

Very nice spreadsheet, thanks!

Bottom line: we've made 18.7% of IPO investment over 9 months of dividends. That's an average return rate of 25% per annum. At this rate, we're right on track to 100% ROI by August 2017 

Yeah...  I don't see a tip address.....



grnbrg.

I've got a note from Zach...  Divs may be late this week, possibly as late as Monday.  I guess he's on another of his secret missions, and we all know how well things work out if he has someone else do the divs....


grnbrg.

Spreadsheet with divs per bond going back to day 1.  Also has approximate hashrate, div increase/decrease week over week, and profit % based on .15 BTC IPO.

If any one sees any glaring mistakes,  let me know.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YnYihk2iWoxyD4fYMhwDbeVaQJRjBU_NVARqMXUIOd4/edit?pli=1#gid=0

Isn't it fun being pissed on when you're trying to help? 

We have a group that meets Tuesday evenings....




grnbrg.

Damn, you're a jerk.

Lots of "trying" around this thread and not a lot of finishing.

I'm going to try.

This might be of interest as well:  http://www.grnbrg.org/bitfunder-assetlist/assetlist-2013-09-28-18:00.txt

It's later than you were asking about, but it's the earliest copy of the bitfunder assetlist that I've got.



grnbrg.

Are you going to post an updated list for all divs since IPO?

grnbrg.

Anyone have divs per bond for 09/07/13  and 09/21/13?

And this is why answering even simple questions tends to be an exercise in beating one's head against the wall.

The short version is that (to my knowledge) LRM is not actively selling "new" contracts.  When people have asked about buying, I have pointed them at the trading thread.  If a buyer insisted on buying directly from LRM, I'm reasonably sure that Zach would accommodate, but less certain about price.  My guess is that he would ask slightly above market ask, so as not to disturb things.  If it was a significant purchase, perhaps somewhat below market ask.  The last time (in December) that contracts were offered, they were priced at about 10% above the current market rate.

So again.  If you want to buy direct from LRM, let me know, and I will get a price for you.


grnbrg.

Vince is exactly correct, which is more evidence for my point that LRM should NOT sell shares above market value if they actually want to sell contracts.

Offering contracts above market is a bad business decision and shows zach did not learn from his mistake the last time he tried it. I have no problem with bonds being valued at what they are valued, and it is possible LRM can buy at $1/gh/s. He still should not offer contracts for sale above market value because no rational investor will buy them for two reasons:
(1) As MaxwellsDemon pointed out, the marginal gain in equity (buying power, whatever) from an investor purchasing shares over market is diluted by the outstanding shares, so the purchaser is basically donating money to the other shareholders. Why would I do that when I can get the exact same thing from buying on the open market and not give money to other shareholders? Also, Vince pointed out that LR can buy hardware for cheap, so LRM does not need to price contracts above market rates in order to purchase hardware. Offering at market minus 10% will sell significantly more shares than market + 10%, and raise more money for purchasing hardware than market plus 10%. (in theory, infinitely more money)

(2) nothing in the sales contract says that premiums from sale go to new hardware for contract holders, it's possible that it's pure profit, or buys hardware for LR himself. Cheaper, existing contracts, are "safer" than possibly throwing money away into a blackhole. That's another reason why LR has to offer below market.


This is a simple, no brainer, basic securities management concept. Of course this also assumes rational investors, but bitcoin investors don't always follow rationality. A few fools [1] will purchase above market value, but not enough to make a difference.

[1] http://swombat.com/2013/7/22/friends-family-fools see the section on "fools." sounds familiar?

dudes this is clearly what is happening...

Contracts are selling for £30/gh, LabRat can buy hardware probably under $1/gh at this point. The bonds are priced as they are because that is what the market has decided is a fair price based on the bonuses that have been paid.

This is a good point, but it assumes that the price Labrat charges for issuing new 100 MH/s contracts is identical to what it costs him to buy 100 MH/s worth of hardware. He could be overcharging when issuing new contracts, which could actually be good for existing contract holders.

If this is true, labrat should be using LRM funds to buy existing contracts. What you just said means that it is more expensive to go buy new hashrate than it is for LRM to consolidate existing hashrate. However, since Zach gets paid based on total hashrate (and not on share price), it's in his best interest to buy more hardware although it is in LRM's best interest to buy up cheap shares.

Such a conflict of interest is usually managed by the board of directors (company officers have a duty to what's best for the company, and if they do not they are personally liable and sometimes got to jail). However, LRM is set up in such a way that he's protected, and if a conflict like this comes up he wins and investors lose.

I don't think he understands this, probably not even worth discussing except to point out the conflict of interest and illustrate a bad decision (preordering hashrate for more money than it would cost to buy existing hashrate from your own company).

If for some reason you wanted to buy direct from LRM, I can certainly get a price for you.  It is highly unlikely to be better than the price you can get in the trading thread, though.  The current lowest selling price there is 0.006BTC per 100MH/s contract.



grnbrg.