Topic: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement - page 59. (Read 452224 times)

Labrat said that equipment starts paying out in two weeks. 

And if the above is true... thats Bitfury gear WE PAID FOR that LRM is mining with all to himself.

I think you are taking statements too literally and not thinking creatively.  Could be wrong though.  I suspect LR has exactly 17.7 TH pointed at CEX.io to create that ticker.  The rest is pointed elsewhere.  Note the readout we see matches the "17.7 TH contracted" bit in LR's signature.

I think originally when all this started, LR received a minirig, some singles, and maybe some other stuff for a total of about 1 - 1.5 TH, then we received a bunch of bitfury equipment in Dec I think that brought us up to 23 and change TH, which is where we have "been" since.  That is the hardware (minus 25%) that has been pointed at CEX.io to generate that ticker we see on LRM's site.

Unless LR got royally screwed over, 150TH or more should have been inbound from bitfury, and half of it is online somewhere judging by comments from today.

ETA: The monarchs were ordered at the same time as the first batch of bitfury gear and iirc, the order was implied as being around $40-60k... so 10-15 originally perhaps?  My memory sucks, and I'm particularly lazy today, someone please help with the numbers.

Why the refund option didn't existed when we "switched" from proportionnal to fixed hashrate ? and how much do you value the "new" contract that is it possible to refund ?
If we choose the new contract ? did we have 7 days to ask a refund ?
Sorry but I feel a little bit screwed ...

Nope.  Labrat said that 55% of the BitFury gear is up and running already.  The current total hashrate is only 17TH, half of which is BFL gear. So that must mean that about 5-7TH of Bitfury gear is left to install.

I think Labrat bought 100 Monarchs. 

LabRat im not asking you to return my BTC but i'd like to get the equivalent amount of bitfury mining gear, so i have 162 shares and i bought them @ 0,15 per pc, that makes 24,3 BTC. Taking todays Bitstamp rate its approx 11k dollars which when looking at bitfuryin price in EU would be about 2,5TH worth of mining gear so you would only have to send me 6 bitfury full kits (H-cards x16, motherboard, rasp, sd card) x6. Please contact me as soon as possible.

Yes, that is how I interpreted it, but that relies on placing trust in a benevolent Lab_Rat who will do what will most benefit the contract holders.  The new contract is a huge step backward from what little transparency we did have.  I personally think Lab_Rat is more likely than a lot of people to willingly pay out a very large portion of mined bitcoin over and above the contracted rate, however, I do not like the lack of guarantees.  The new contract basically reads "100MH/s plus bonus at LR's discretion".  I personally think it is likely the "bonus" will consistently be nice and significantly higher than 100MH/s, but there is nothing to prevent LR from having a bad week, going on a coke binge using what would otherwise be bonus bitcoin, waking up on a beach in a singlet somewhere, and paying out just 100MH/s per contract, and we would have zero recourse and zero knowledge there ever was a pool of bitcoins that could have been used as a bonus.  This seems like a huge departure from the spirit of the original contract.  Worse, LR can't even say what he really intends to do because of legal liabilities.  Maybe he intends to payout a bonus regularly every week based on actual mined bitcoin, but he can't say that is what he intends to do one way or the other because of legal concerns.

I would have much rather seen contracts that split to accommodate increased hashrate rather than relying on fixed + bonus.

Will have to think on this more and read what others are thinking.

This is all BS. It was an implied term of the original contract that contract holders would receive a share of mining proceeds based on the number of contracts (not a fixed hashrate), with a simple reinvestment mechanism.

Original contract holders who choose not to convert to the new fixed hashrate contracts should continue to receive their proper share of mining proceeds and benefit from any reinvestment.  Anything else is a breach of contract.

Might I remind everybody that we forfeited "two weeks" (in practice it was more than that) of mining dividends with our new with LRM's purchased Bitfury gear to be used to purchase further hardware. I was of the opinion at the time that it was a mistake but now it's clear that any value gained from forfeiting these dividends is solely at LR's discretion to do with as he pleases. It's also worth noting that because of difficulty the first "two weeks" of dividends were indeed much fatter than any two weeks since.

I for one am not feeling assured. It's more "make it up as we go" methodology.
The contract nails down some specifics but mostly it informs us how screwed we really are.

I thought the whole point of the "bonus" was so he could pay out the new equipment?   

Exactly.

In this new model... new contract purchases would be rewarded instantly with hashrate dividends... when we all purchased... we had to wait until hardware came in before we could get dividends.

SELLING THIS INCOMING HARDWARE TO NEW CONTRACTS AND ONLY GIVING BONUS PAY TO SAID NEW CONTRACTS IS LIKE GETTING PAID TWICE FOR THOSE CONTRACTS! YOU CAN'T SELL CONTRACTS TO THE HASHRATE WE PURCHASED A SECOND TIME.

Your only option to do this correctly, and give us the hashrate WE provided you funds to purchase, is to increase our contract count to match overall hashrate.

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO SELL FUTURE CONTRACTS TO ANYONE ELSE AT ALL... THOSE ARE OUR CONTRACTS!

Isn't it about 150TH, not ~5-7?

For the life of me I cannot figure out why ~5-7TH of BitFury gear has been sitting in boxes for 1 month.

When the Monarchs arrive how long will it take to hook them up?

My guess is you are having heat problems.  It's going to get much much hotter this summer.

Even if LR is to be honorable the contract does nothing to assure that he will act in good faith. Initial contracts were sold on the promise of growth. True it was stated that contracts would be worth a minimum of 100MH/s and that benchmark was exceeded given the 3 way split. However, there was consistent representation over time from LR that we were growing to more and more MH/s.

Going back on that representation and not contractually assuring dividends from the growth that WE paid for is a betrayal to the initial contract holders. It betrays us in that the destiny of our contracts was misrepresented over the course of several Months. Our funds are not protected under contract to be used as WE intended under the terms originally agreed upon. It's a bait and switch to lock the hash rate.

That is how i read it... the hashrate we have in equipment now is all we will ever get... all this new Bitfury equipment WE PAID FOR can only be reaped by purchasing more bonds... essetially LRM will be mining with it all for his own pocket except that portion that someone else pays for as they buy new contracts. WE PAID FOR THAT BITFURY GEAR, IT IS OUR HASHRATE AND LRM IS FORCING US TO RELINQUISH IT TO NEW CONTRACTS ONLY.

That is all correct, plus we don't know how much hardware is incoming, even in the current BitFury shipment, as the AMA was closed just before my question re-asking this. It is, however, almost a moot point, as neither contract entitles bondholders to any of the proceeds from that equipment.

Many questions remain to be answered...

I understand you have closed the AMA. There is a glaring outstanding question raised by this particular answer.

The new contract specifies a discretionary (read optional) bonus payout per contract, however, that bonus payout will be completely on the honor system without any third party audits.

As was stated earlier even if there were an audit said funds could be diverted to new shares, LR's pocket etc. on a whim.

An additional question is: How has any of this restored faith in LRM or it's contracts?

The price per contract has tanked and unless bonus payouts are both plentiful and consistent I see little hope in recovering more than a fraction of initial contract costs. Additionally anybody buying existing or new contracts would be foolish to value them as worth anything more than the 100 MH/s since the bonus is completely discretionary and can become zero at any time.

Well said. Robbing is the operative word here.

There needs to be a side by side, point by point comparison of current bond definitions to new bond definitions.

From what i gather in this AMA... the only difference is old contracts are not eligible for bonus payouts, and will no longer "grow" in hashrate as it was expressed they would when initially purchased?

Why does it feel like contract holders are being screwed either way? Essentially... the only reason you have MORE hashrate than bonds sold is due to the rise in the price of BTC... so why are we as contract holders not reaping any of that benefit... either we stay and do not grow anymore... or we convert and you sell the extra hashrate to new contracts... hashrate the we original holders essentially paid for.

You are getting your cake and eating it too... right in front of us... and taunting us to boot while you make out like a bandit all because we bought in prior to BTCs value rising. Your sole discresion to deem a bonus is not enough to validate how much you took in since you were still holding BTC when the value jumped... you are essentially robbing us of the extra benefit we should all be getting.