Topic: Large Weekend Sell on off hours = Manipulation (Read 1948 times)
And nobody mention the 1 million dollars surprise bid as the start of manipulation.
Interesting article talking about last weekends manipulation: http://blog.coinsetter.com/2013/06/03/bitcoin-market-manipulators-strike-on-the-weekend/
Bitcoin “Market Manipulators” Strike on the Weekend
After weeks of relative stability in the Bitcoin market, this weekend saw a rapid and unnatural drop in the Bitcoin price. Breaking from the $130 level where it had hovered for the prior week, strong selling pressures forced the Bitcoin price to $120 over the course of just seven hours. The price movement coincided with a gigantic jump in volume that had no apparent purpose. We also noticed multiple “clog sales” (i.e. small transactions of the same size in rapid progression). In all, $5.3 million of bitcoins were sold off during the seven hour period. This equated to more than 40,000 BTC of trading volume, which was returned to the market as buy orders about an hour later. Our prognosis: possible market manipulation.
The chart below displays trading activity on Mt. Gox on June 2, 2013. One can see that trading volume was light (almost non-existent) before the price drop occurred. Then, without explanation, one or multiple sellers overloaded the market with sell orders. There were several large orders placed, the largest trade being for 1,000 BTC.
As has already been widely discussed, market manipulation is easier to accomplish in markets with low trading volume. This ability is due to the ease of reaching lower orders in the orderbook with relatively little capital on hand. Given that Bitcoin’s displayed and perceived current price is based on the “last price”, big selling on a small orderbook can make it appear that prices are dropping for a more legitimate purpose. Contrary to this weekend’s downward price movement, Bitcoin’s future is just as strong as it was before the weekend. If this drop caused a setback in your outlook for Bitcoin, read our article on Bitcoin’s future (in short: it has never been brighter). http://blog.coinsetter.com/2013/05/30/a-letter-from-coinsetters-ceo-the-future-of-bitcoin-has-never-been-brighter/
Coinsetter to the Rescue!
We believe our platform can reduce the effect market manipulators have on Bitcoin prices. By aggregating the feeds of multiple exchanges, we dilute the power they can have on prices by diversifying systemic market liquidity. It’s also worth noting that higher trading volume on a well-built platform will make it increasingly difficult for any single dollar to move the market. Fickle exchanges have created a fickle market, but it won’t always be this way.
Bitcoin “Market Manipulators” Strike on the Weekend
After weeks of relative stability in the Bitcoin market, this weekend saw a rapid and unnatural drop in the Bitcoin price. Breaking from the $130 level where it had hovered for the prior week, strong selling pressures forced the Bitcoin price to $120 over the course of just seven hours. The price movement coincided with a gigantic jump in volume that had no apparent purpose. We also noticed multiple “clog sales” (i.e. small transactions of the same size in rapid progression). In all, $5.3 million of bitcoins were sold off during the seven hour period. This equated to more than 40,000 BTC of trading volume, which was returned to the market as buy orders about an hour later. Our prognosis: possible market manipulation.
The chart below displays trading activity on Mt. Gox on June 2, 2013. One can see that trading volume was light (almost non-existent) before the price drop occurred. Then, without explanation, one or multiple sellers overloaded the market with sell orders. There were several large orders placed, the largest trade being for 1,000 BTC.
As has already been widely discussed, market manipulation is easier to accomplish in markets with low trading volume. This ability is due to the ease of reaching lower orders in the orderbook with relatively little capital on hand. Given that Bitcoin’s displayed and perceived current price is based on the “last price”, big selling on a small orderbook can make it appear that prices are dropping for a more legitimate purpose. Contrary to this weekend’s downward price movement, Bitcoin’s future is just as strong as it was before the weekend. If this drop caused a setback in your outlook for Bitcoin, read our article on Bitcoin’s future (in short: it has never been brighter). http://blog.coinsetter.com/2013/05/30/a-letter-from-coinsetters-ceo-the-future-of-bitcoin-has-never-been-brighter/
Coinsetter to the Rescue!
We believe our platform can reduce the effect market manipulators have on Bitcoin prices. By aggregating the feeds of multiple exchanges, we dilute the power they can have on prices by diversifying systemic market liquidity. It’s also worth noting that higher trading volume on a well-built platform will make it increasingly difficult for any single dollar to move the market. Fickle exchanges have created a fickle market, but it won’t always be this way.
Who starts a large sell order late Saturday, early Sunday morning?
Maybe somebody who knows the news early Monday:))))Haven't you heard?
Hmm... is it time to crash BTC exchange rates yet?
Speculative Bubbles: Unexplored Opportunities in Bitcoin Development
Oh yeah, and there's that poison pill!... in case the miners were to decide that I'm bluffing about the invitation to negotiate.
Yes, because obviously the best time to trigger a panic is on the weekend in the middle of the night in the US.
It takes a lot less potential buyers to trigger things on a weekend.
On a regular day with more buyers it would take more ammo.
This is just math and common sense...
What are the chances he decides to do so at 5am on a weekend?
It happened around high noon. Your clock is wrong.
Who starts a large sell order late Saturday, early Sunday morning?
Maybe somebody who knows the news early Monday:))))
Haven't you heard?
Hmm... is it time to crash BTC exchange rates yet?
Speculative Bubbles: Unexplored Opportunities in Bitcoin Development
Yes, because obviously the best time to trigger a panic is on the weekend in the middle of the night in the US.
We have reached the bottom, now it's going to raise again, it will take a couple of days until the prices get back up.
You can check out the price recovery live at: http://bitcoin.stoto.net/
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1986074/btt/mtgox.png
You can check out the price recovery live at: http://bitcoin.stoto.net/
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1986074/btt/mtgox.png
Its About Sharing, a seller don't care about the price he might produce if he can sell everything, without slippage.
Would a... oh I don't know... million dollar wall be enough to insure this?
Would a... oh I don't know... million dollar wall be enough to insure this?
What are the chances he decides to do so at 5am on a weekend? There is a reason volume is low on a weekend.
You might be right, you might be wrong. But just by looking at the math, it is probably the latter.
Its About Sharing, a seller don't care about the price he might produce if he can sell everything, without slippage.
Would a... oh I don't know... million dollar wall be enough to insure this?
Would a... oh I don't know... million dollar wall be enough to insure this?
darklight, as BitCoinAshley said, the times of the sales are eye catching.
Another mentioned that the sell time was at 5am US time! STUPID if you want money. SMART if you want to drop prices.
But, we are an anti-fragile technology, bring it on.
Again as Ashley said, we have to spread the coins around and as we do, sell offs like this become less probable. And as we get more known, orders like this will just be absorbed.
We are still in the very very early stages of BTC. Big drops in prices are just time to buy. A Black Swan like BTC does not come along that often. When it does, you take a chance as much as you can.
Another mentioned that the sell time was at 5am US time! STUPID if you want money. SMART if you want to drop prices.
But, we are an anti-fragile technology, bring it on.
Again as Ashley said, we have to spread the coins around and as we do, sell offs like this become less probable. And as we get more known, orders like this will just be absorbed.We are still in the very very early stages of BTC. Big drops in prices are just time to buy. A Black Swan like BTC does not come along that often. When it does, you take a chance as much as you can.
Yes, Its About Sharing, it is incredibly obvious that this was an act of deliberate price-moving rather than a "big player cashing out" after becoming disillusioned with the Bitcoin Scam. Yet there are still plenty of people who, despite all signs pointing to the contrary, foolishly believe that this was someone cashing out or early adopters who see "the end is near" for bitcoin and want to get back into fiat and pay their capital gains like a good sheep on the tax farm.
If someone with 25000 coins wanted to cash out, selling them ALL AT ONCE, in the middle of the night on a weekend in U.S. time zone, and then transferring fiat out through an exchange, getting smacked with 10-20% capital gains tax or however much it is - well, let's just say NO ONE in their right mind would do it that way.
Obvious price troll is obvious. Someone with 2.5 million dollars wants to turn it into 2.7 million dollars. Not "big player cashing out," not "early adopter realizes downtrend is coming and sells all his coins." Just "Rich person wants to get richer."
As time goes on, we will see these uber-concentrated positions become less and less concentrated. And of the millions of coins still waiting to be mined, these will be distributed far more equally since it's not quite as easy for one person to get 500,000 coins in one shot as it was in 2009. Simply having the fiat to do it is not enough. You can certainly TRY to buy a massive amount on an exchange all at once, but the slippage would be so great as to guarantee buying at a huge loss.
Oh, about time zones:
I don't know how much of the market is in the U.S. - I assume not an overwhelming majority or anything, since BTC is a global market. But I have noticed a good amount of the "big pump/dump" sales that have started rallies or crashes in the last few months have occurred at around 3-4AM EST (GMT-5). Not sure if this means the manipulator is the same person or group of people, or if they have decided that this is when demographically, most of the market is asleep.
If someone with 25000 coins wanted to cash out, selling them ALL AT ONCE, in the middle of the night on a weekend in U.S. time zone, and then transferring fiat out through an exchange, getting smacked with 10-20% capital gains tax or however much it is - well, let's just say NO ONE in their right mind would do it that way.
Obvious price troll is obvious. Someone with 2.5 million dollars wants to turn it into 2.7 million dollars. Not "big player cashing out," not "early adopter realizes downtrend is coming and sells all his coins." Just "Rich person wants to get richer."
As time goes on, we will see these uber-concentrated positions become less and less concentrated. And of the millions of coins still waiting to be mined, these will be distributed far more equally since it's not quite as easy for one person to get 500,000 coins in one shot as it was in 2009. Simply having the fiat to do it is not enough. You can certainly TRY to buy a massive amount on an exchange all at once, but the slippage would be so great as to guarantee buying at a huge loss.
Oh, about time zones:
Quote from: darklight
You do realize that different countries are in different timezones?
I don't know how much of the market is in the U.S. - I assume not an overwhelming majority or anything, since BTC is a global market. But I have noticed a good amount of the "big pump/dump" sales that have started rallies or crashes in the last few months have occurred at around 3-4AM EST (GMT-5). Not sure if this means the manipulator is the same person or group of people, or if they have decided that this is when demographically, most of the market is asleep.
You do realize that different countries are in different timezones?
you guys blew it. you could have made an extra $2 on each coin. price is going up. all is lost.
$2 profit on each coin?
Ummmm, what is 2$ when we are talking game changing technology?
Time to...
you guys blew it. you could have made an extra $2 on each coin. price is going up. all is lost.
Who starts a large sell order late Saturday, early Sunday morning?
I just don't see that being a good way to unload coins, even if there is a large bid wall there to take most of it.
This will certainly be a good test of our true value come Monday.
IAS
I just don't see that being a good way to unload coins, even if there is a large bid wall there to take most of it.
This will certainly be a good test of our true value come Monday.
IAS
Maybe somebody who knows the news early Monday:))))
Very good point, but minus that?
What da f** do you need more , a bear took a dump , and the price went to 115$.
Face reality , FOR NOW , the price is going down without a major reason.
Imagine what will happen if we really got one !
LOL Mt Gox needs verification now. People are heading for the exits. You going to pay capital gains?
Who starts a large sell order late Saturday, early Sunday morning?
I just don't see that being a good way to unload coins, even if there is a large bid wall there to take most of it.
This will certainly be a good test of our true value come Monday.
IAS
I just don't see that being a good way to unload coins, even if there is a large bid wall there to take most of it.
This will certainly be a good test of our true value come Monday.
IAS
Maybe somebody who knows the news early Monday:))))
Very good point, but minus that?
What da f** do you need more , a bear took a dump , and the price went to 115$.
Face reality , FOR NOW , the price is going down without a major reason.
Imagine what will happen if we really got one !
Um, Earth to Niothor, come in Niothor, do you read us?
The point is that NO ONE with half a brain places a large sell order on a weekend unless they WANT to bring the price down.
We know what we are in with BTC, this doesn't phase us. Will just by more.
Who starts a large sell order late Saturday, early Sunday morning?
I just don't see that being a good way to unload coins, even if there is a large bid wall there to take most of it.
This will certainly be a good test of our true value come Monday.
IAS
I just don't see that being a good way to unload coins, even if there is a large bid wall there to take most of it.
This will certainly be a good test of our true value come Monday.
IAS
Maybe somebody who knows the news early Monday:))))
Very good point, but minus that?
What da f** do you need more , a bear took a dump , and the price went to 115$.
Face reality , FOR NOW , the price is going down without a major reason.
Imagine what will happen if we really got one !
Who starts a large sell order late Saturday, early Sunday morning?
I just don't see that being a good way to unload coins, even if there is a large bid wall there to take most of it.
This will certainly be a good test of our true value come Monday.
IAS
I just don't see that being a good way to unload coins, even if there is a large bid wall there to take most of it.
This will certainly be a good test of our true value come Monday.
IAS
Maybe somebody who knows the news early Monday:))))
Very good point, but minus that?
Who starts a large sell order late Saturday, early Sunday morning?
I just don't see that being a good way to unload coins, even if there is a large bid wall there to take most of it.
This will certainly be a good test of our true value come Monday.
IAS
I just don't see that being a good way to unload coins, even if there is a large bid wall there to take most of it.
This will certainly be a good test of our true value come Monday.
IAS
Maybe somebody who knows the news early Monday:))))
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