Topic: Latest update on BFL shipping 21/02/13 More Updates 25Th - page 2. (Read 4304 times)

Then, isn't the onus now on BFL to prove that all the pre-order money is in the bank, thus not under said SEC regulations?

According to SEC regulations, people with pre-orders are investors, not customers. Hence they should be treated as such (transparency, information, etc).

Remember: BFL customers didn't make a deposit - they paid fully upfront for the development of a (back then) not existing product -> investors.

Who would have guesses that ASICMiner would have been the first one to fully operates their ASICs?

More crystal ball predictions (my apologies to the real psychics of the world):


13 days and counting...

I honestly doubt that very many Batch 1 customers will cancel, no matter how bad the next estimate is.  I do think that unless they can regain some credibility and prove that they're capable of giving estimates which are at least within the ballpark, they're at risk of losing a lot of later orders, though.  

You'd have to be crazy to have any faith in their delivery estimates for Batch 2 and beyond right now when they can't give reliable estimates for how long the few remaining steps for Batch 1 will take to complete.  Ensuring this kind of clusterfuck doesn't happen again with the next 6 wafers or the 63 following wafers will require pro-active measures on BFL's behalf and if they want people to stick with them until May, June or even later, then they need to be telling people what they're going to do to ensure that their customers don't become stuck in the land of never-ending back-orders.  

BFL is not going to remain the only mass producer of ASICs forever - sooner or later someone will come along who doesn't require pre-orders and who can ship orders within a week of them being placed.  BFL expected to be the first company able to do that, but as the back-orders keep piling up and delivery schedules keep slipping, it seems less and less likely they'll be able to accomplish that before someone else.

You did. You dropped the ball. Stop blaming everyone else.

It's also a lie. Every step of the way, every other company they work with is always the one that won't meet promised schedules. Sooner or later Josh looses all credibility. You can't believe anything he says about dates, because he's just making them up as he goes along. 2 days in bumping becomes 2 weeks. Why? Because that 2-day schedule was all in his mind.

If BFL has enough funds to offer the bumping facility a "blank cheque", then they have enough funds to engage someone to troubleshoot this project.  Josh is clearly out of his depth in terms of managing customer expectations - it's time to hand that job over to someone else because this isn't going to end when Batch 1 ships.  

People want credible reassurances that the schedule for the second 6,000 chips is going to be better managed, and especially that the batch of 75,000 chips is going to be made into actual units and shipped some time this year.  Someone needs to get this project back on track and they need to explain to existing and potential customers how that's going to happen.

Deflecting blame to the bumping facility is unacceptable.  It's up to whoever's in charge of the project to ensure that contractors are chosen wisely, that contracts are locked down, and that contractors are provided with what they need to do their job (if your chip is so dense that creating the mask will take extra time at the fab or that the absence of an alignment wafer will slow down bumping, it's your responsibility to know that).

Even if the bumping facility burns down with the chips, there should be enough insurance on the project to refund customers whose orders are affected.

BFL should cease taking any further pre-orders until this project is back on track and they can offer delivery in a reasonable time-frame.

Edit.  What in the hell is going on that Josh feels it would be inappropriate to disclose publicly?  People with pre-orders are undoubtedly stakeholders, but they're not necessarily entitled to the same level of detail as investors or board members.  Seriously, if you can't provide enough information publicly to reassure your existing customers, then why on earth should they trust you for another day instead of cancelling their orders right now?  And why should any potential customer take a chance on ordering with you?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/1034-february-14th-2012-update-discussion-thread-12.html#post16015

Reassurance needs to be as public as possible right now. 

They've cemented a reputation for themselves that will only be rectified by sufficient market pressures.  I.e. they couldn't run a profitable business in a competitive environment where their product, at this point, is essentially Public Relations.

If this is a scam I have a feeling someone might be getting "bumped" off eventually.

You usually have much to say about BFL.  How would you evaluate this setback for BFL?

D

I'm Keith Apicary at this point.


I've focused on 'the classics' and resigned myself to not think about mining (first, second...whatevs) with shiny new, tasty technology.



*Goes back to playing Galaga*

It's great to say that the bumping facility can't wrap their heads around urgency.  In fact the problem seems to be BFL being unable to wrap their heads around the fact that you can't leave organising these steps until your chips are ready to roll out of the fab because these facilities book slots many months in advance.

And "blank cheque" my ass.  They may have offered to pay over the going rate for urgent orders, but let's not pretend that they're willing or able to pay 10 or 20 million hurry up the bumping.

Thanks for sharing this, Micon. Good find.

Seriously! BFL (Josh) is one bunch of arrogant amateurs! It's like coming 10 minutes after closing hour to a gas station saying: "Hey! Give us 2 fl.oz of gasoline. Pronto! We'll pay you 20 cent extra!".

Anyway ...

I thought February would be the last month where I make good money betting against BFL - but it seems March will be a save bet too.

Looking forward to get my payout from this one: http://bitbet.us/bet/7/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-march-1st/      

I'm not sure that there's any reason to believe that bumping, packaging and board assembly of the second 6000 chips is going to happen any more quickly than the first.  Batch 2 is also going to be a small order which facilities are going to fit in around other work and the likelihood of all the facilities having open slots so the process flows seamlessly is small.

to find the actual latest updates on BFL ASIC status, you must dig:



IMO this is part of the "let the mark down easy" stage, where there will be many delays and very weak excuses.
 

I'm not a huge fan by the amount of trolling that usually goes on in these kinds of threads, but this made me lol.

There is a fair chance BFL still has to find that out.  Fully expect a "oops, now we have the wrong equipment" or "oops, those BGA balls crack without underfill" or "we cant chew bubble gum fast enough to underfill our chips"  post by Josh in the next weeks.

Gotcha.  Missed that update.  Thank you for clarifying.

Enigma.

Yes, BFL said they switched from QFN some time ago, due to some heat issues.