Learning from Imperial Rome - page 6.

Kungfucheez

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Quote from: aminorex on January 09, 2014, 08:02:11 PM

Quote from: minor-transgression on January 09, 2014, 06:10:50 PM

At best, Gresham's law will apply, bitcoins will be hoarded, driven out by fiat
currencies.

I do not believe that fiat will exist as we know it in 10 years. Specifically, debt money inevitably collapses. The can will only kick so far before catastrophe wipes out hubris. There may not be any bad money to drive the good money out of circulation.

I don't believe human beings will exists in 10 years. Instead we will undergo a massive extinction and dinosaurs will start walking the earth again. Also the ocean will turn into chocolate and all the sea animals will get diabetes

aminorex

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Activity: 1596

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Sine secretum non libertas

Quote from: minor-transgression on January 09, 2014, 06:10:50 PM

At best, Gresham's law will apply, bitcoins will be hoarded, driven out by fiat
currencies.

I do not believe that fiat will exist as we know it in 10 years. Specifically, debt money inevitably collapses. The can will only kick so far before catastrophe wipes out hubris. There may not be any bad money to drive the good money out of circulation.

Adrian-x

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1000

Quote from: minor-transgression on January 09, 2014, 06:10:50 PM

"How about restarting blocsoldiers every 49 years, or better yet have older blocks phase out gradually as , wouldnt that create a rolling reboot of the economy."

The economy would need to be in a dire state before enough people agreed to such a measure,
and, as pointed out elsewhere, property would likely have to be returned as part of the deal.
While I'm hopeful that I'm wrong and the global economy rights itself, history suggests that
some form of radical solution may be required, not immediately, but eventually.

While Bitcoin may bring a new paradigm to banking, and make dishonesty more difficult, it will
not alter debt. At best, Gresham's law will apply, bitcoins will be hoarded, driven out by fiat
currencies.

The simplest proposal is for the new cryptocurrency to wipe out its entire blockchain and restart.

As for this idea I believe inflation of fiat is more a sustainable idea. Ultimately Joseph Proudhon nailed it with "property is despotism"

Whatever the reset if it doesn’t reset to the original condition pre-man it is a form of Despotism.

Adrian-x

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Quote from: thaaanos on January 09, 2014, 02:49:05 AM

Quote from: Adrian-x on January 08, 2014, 07:42:47 PM

Quote from: thaaanos on January 08, 2014, 04:27:39 PM

Quote from: Adrian-x on January 08, 2014, 12:07:41 PM

Quote from: thaaanos on January 08, 2014, 09:22:46 AM

Quote from: minor-transgression on January 08, 2014, 03:17:42 AM

No questions on a cryptocurrency that goes to zero?

Howie

How about restarting blocsoldiers every 49 years, or better yet have older blocks phase out gradually as , wouldnt that create a rolling reboot of the economy.

They would have done better to enforce free trade and less tax and universal law. Power shifts were a result of insufficient funding for military staff. Debt forgiveness would only benefit the those who made promises they had no intention of honoring, the ones holding the debt the soldiers would still organize to to get there fair share.

I think the Romans were pretty good at Trade and Law. Modern Law is actualy Roman Law. If you hold a debt for 49 years you may as well write it off, I think 49 years is a sufficient period to try and extract some value out of the debt, if you fail then most propably you made a bad judgement took the Risk and lost.

I know, but you can’t argue their empire is thriving because we carry the torch, or because there empire was founded on cooperative trade, free trade was not stifled with price fixing and there economic engine extinguished because there army provided little protection at an exorbitant cost.
The law and taxes at the time we inequitably enforced, those who were not part of Roam were subject to 100% taxation and enslavement, those who found jobs as mercenaries in the army and promised land in gratitude of service had to take it by force as they were not paid by Rome. They couldn’t wait 49 years to forgive Rome, they needed to eat.

A believe evolution is a damn good indicator of success, So if we now chose roman law, conducts over anything else, and generaly carry the Torch of Rome, it is that we believe that they were at least in the right track. Credit to where its due man.
Little protection, Stiffled economy? Pax Romana, Roads who do you think made those possible? The Roman Army.
And according to OP soldier's salary was pretty much stable, and got what they asked or else ...

It’s more like we kept the bits that worked and called it common law. In Roman law it was OK to have a Coup d'état, so long as you could manage the military.

minor-transgression

sr. member

Activity: 268

Merit: 256

"How about restarting blocsoldiers every 49 years, or better yet have older blocks phase out gradually as , wouldnt that create a rolling reboot of the economy."

The economy would need to be in a dire state before enough people agreed to such a measure,
and, as pointed out elsewhere, property would likely have to be returned as part of the deal.
While I'm hopeful that I'm wrong and the global economy rights itself, history suggests that
some form of radical solution may be required, not immediately, but eventually.

While Bitcoin may bring a new paradigm to banking, and make dishonesty more difficult, it will
not alter debt. At best, Gresham's law will apply, bitcoins will be hoarded, driven out by fiat
currencies.

The simplest proposal is for the new cryptocurrency to wipe out its entire blockchain and restart.

thaaanos

sr. member

Activity: 370

Merit: 250

Quote from: Adrian-x on January 08, 2014, 07:42:47 PM

Quote from: thaaanos on January 08, 2014, 04:27:39 PM

Quote from: Adrian-x on January 08, 2014, 12:07:41 PM

Quote from: thaaanos on January 08, 2014, 09:22:46 AM

Quote from: minor-transgression on January 08, 2014, 03:17:42 AM

No questions on a cryptocurrency that goes to zero?

Howie

How about restarting blocsoldiers every 49 years, or better yet have older blocks phase out gradually as , wouldnt that create a rolling reboot of the economy.

They would have done better to enforce free trade and less tax and universal law. Power shifts were a result of insufficient funding for military staff. Debt forgiveness would only benefit the those who made promises they had no intention of honoring, the ones holding the debt the soldiers would still organize to to get there fair share.

I think the Romans were pretty good at Trade and Law. Modern Law is actualy Roman Law. If you hold a debt for 49 years you may as well write it off, I think 49 years is a sufficient period to try and extract some value out of the debt, if you fail then most propably you made a bad judgement took the Risk and lost.

I know, but you can’t argue their empire is thriving because we carry the torch, or because there empire was founded on cooperative trade, free trade was not stifled with price fixing and there economic engine extinguished because there army provided little protection at an exorbitant cost.
The law and taxes at the time we inequitably enforced, those who were not part of Roam were subject to 100% taxation and enslavement, those who found jobs as mercenaries in the army and promised land in gratitude of service had to take it by force as they were not paid by Rome. They couldn’t wait 49 years to forgive Rome, they needed to eat.

A believe evolution is a damn good indicator of success, So if we now chose roman law, conducts over anything else, and generaly carry the Torch of Rome, it is that we believe that they were at least in the right track. Credit to where its due man.
Little protection, Stiffled economy? Pax Romana, Roads who do you think made those possible? The Roman Army.
And according to OP soldier's salary was pretty much stable, and got what they asked or else ...

Adrian-x

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1000

Quote from: thaaanos on January 08, 2014, 04:27:39 PM

Quote from: Adrian-x on January 08, 2014, 12:07:41 PM

Quote from: thaaanos on January 08, 2014, 09:22:46 AM

Quote from: minor-transgression on January 08, 2014, 03:17:42 AM

No questions on a cryptocurrency that goes to zero?

Howie

How about restarting blocsoldiers every 49 years, or better yet have older blocks phase out gradually as , wouldnt that create a rolling reboot of the economy.

They would have done better to enforce free trade and less tax and universal law. Power shifts were a result of insufficient funding for military staff. Debt forgiveness would only benefit the those who made promises they had no intention of honoring, the ones holding the debt the soldiers would still organize to to get there fair share.

I think the Romans were pretty good at Trade and Law. Modern Law is actualy Roman Law. If you hold a debt for 49 years you may as well write it off, I think 49 years is a sufficient period to try and extract some value out of the debt, if you fail then most propably you made a bad judgement took the Risk and lost.

I know, but you can’t argue their empire is thriving because we carry the torch, or because there empire was founded on cooperative trade, free trade was not stifled with price fixing and there economic engine extinguished because there army provided little protection at an exorbitant cost.
The law and taxes at the time we inequitably enforced, those who were not part of Roam were subject to 100% taxation and enslavement, those who found jobs as mercenaries in the army and promised land in gratitude of service had to take it by force as they were not paid by Rome. They couldn’t wait 49 years to forgive Rome, they needed to eat.

thaaanos

sr. member

Activity: 370

Merit: 250

Quote from: Adrian-x on January 08, 2014, 12:07:41 PM

Quote from: thaaanos on January 08, 2014, 09:22:46 AM

Quote from: minor-transgression on January 08, 2014, 03:17:42 AM

No questions on a cryptocurrency that goes to zero?

Howie

How about restarting blocsoldiers every 49 years, or better yet have older blocks phase out gradually as , wouldnt that create a rolling reboot of the economy.

They would have done better to enforce free trade and less tax and universal law. Power shifts were a result of insufficient funding for military staff. Debt forgiveness would only benefit the those who made promises they had no intention of honoring, the ones holding the debt the soldiers would still organize to to get there fair share.

I think the Romans were pretty good at Trade and Law. Modern Law is actualy Roman Law. If you hold a debt for 49 years you may as well write it off, I think 49 years is a sufficient period to try and extract some value out of the debt, if you fail then most propably you made a bad judgement took the Risk and lost.

Kungfucheez

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Sooooo....Is this thread supposed to be another one of those "America is like the Roman Empire!!!" kinda bullshit threads?

thaaanos

sr. member

Activity: 370

Merit: 250

Quote from: el_Tico on January 08, 2014, 12:20:01 PM

Interesting that you suggest that an economy should reset every 49 yrs.

Ancient Israel maintained a Jubilee Year which occurred every 49/50 yrs. During the Jubilee Year, all property and debts were paid and returned to their original owners. Any slave was also set free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_(Biblical)

You people propably know better Wink

So in order to defuse any zionist conspiracy theory hatching up lets make it 42

el_Tico

member

Activity: 88

Merit: 10

"Fly you fools"

Interesting that you suggest that an economy should reset every 49 yrs.

Ancient Israel maintained a Jubilee Year which occurred every 49/50 yrs. During the Jubilee Year, all property and debts were paid and returned to their original owners. Any slave was also set free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_(Biblical)

Adrian-x

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1000

Quote from: thaaanos on January 08, 2014, 09:22:46 AM

Quote from: minor-transgression on January 08, 2014, 03:17:42 AM

No questions on a cryptocurrency that goes to zero?

Howie

How about restarting blocsoldiers every 49 years, or better yet have older blocks phase out gradually as , wouldnt that create a rolling reboot of the economy.

They would have done better to enforce free trade and less tax and universal law. Power shifts were a result of insufficient funding for military staff. Debt forgiveness would only benefit the those who made promises they had no intention of honoring, the ones holding the debt the soldiers would still organize to to get there fair share.

thaaanos

sr. member

Activity: 370

Merit: 250

Quote from: minor-transgression on January 08, 2014, 03:17:42 AM

No questions on a cryptocurrency that goes to zero?

How about restarting blockchain every 49 years, or better yet have older blocks phase out gradually as , wouldnt that create a rolling reboot of the economy.

thaaanos

sr. member

Activity: 370

Merit: 250

Quote from: minor-transgression on January 08, 2014, 03:16:00 AM

Was there any kind of fractional reserve banking at some point in Rome?
It was a cash society. And I think you need paper money to make
fractional reserve lending work.

I thought you said there were records of Debts burned, doesnt that mean that there were bank-like entities?

oprahwindfury

full member

Activity: 666

Merit: 108

Thanks for the good read. So basically the Romans, well a certain portion of them at least, devalued their own currency until it was worth nothing? Is that the gist of it? What if they hadn't done this and kept the Denarius at a certain percentage of silver? Interesting theories to think about!

minor-transgression

sr. member

Activity: 268

Merit: 256

No questions on a cryptocurrency that goes to zero?

minor-transgression

sr. member

Activity: 268

Merit: 256

"if Rome entered a phase of austerity instead would that extend or shorten the life of the empire?"

Austerity??? For example, selling your wife to the highest bidder in the local
slavemarket and buying a smaller one? I'm not sure that would work ;-)

In 27BC over half the inhabitants of Rome were slaves, and by the mid 300AD's
the elite were passing laws prohibiting freemen from selling themselves, and
presumably their wives and children, into slavery. Does that sound like
austerity to you?

Can you show some graphs with legionaire salary index with wheat and gold?

http://www.kepe.gr/EN_Pages/disc_papers_en.htm Prodromidis - Discussion paper Nr 85 - Another View on an Old Inflation - P-I Prodromidis
Try p27?

Was there any kind of fractional reserve banking at some point in Rome?
It was a cash society. And I think you need paper money to make
fractional reserve lending work.

Bitcoinpro

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1000

Greed, does it every time Cheesy

el_Tico

member

Activity: 88

Merit: 10

"Fly you fools"

Good lesson in history.

-Bad money always chases out good.

-Although he tried, Aurelian couldn't rid the empire of the debased currency.

thaaanos

sr. member

Activity: 370

Merit: 250

Quote from: Adrian-x on January 07, 2014, 03:02:39 AM

An introduction to the history of the Roman empire.

"ROME: Rise and fall of an empire - Part 1/14" on YouTube

An overwhelming theme is the Romans plundered wealth and had huge military expenses, ultimately unsustainable, a 2 week saga if you watch an episode every night. Also not hard to see how the society could have been sustainable with my BTC0.02 education in economics.

lol many seeked the "End" of History, Rome, Genghis, Lui, Napoleon, Hitler, US they all had a Masterplan on how their Empire will live forever. But in nature nothing moves in a straight line, to move forward one must go up and down, up and down.

Topic: Learning from Imperial Rome - page 6. (Read 21758 times)