Topic: Ledger hardware wallet offering custody for seed backups - page 2. (Read 398 times)

That means we were all lied to from the beginning.

Of course it is. I never invested in BTC a decade ago because I believed that governments would find a way to fight back against it.

I described the way they would do this as follows:

- Prison sentences for known holders of BTC. There are many varieties to this. For example my EU citizens now have to declare BTC holdings on their tax declaration forms. Not declaring this could have prison sentence as a consequence in the future. Or confiscation of other assets
- Taking down exchanges (lawsuits against Binance and Coinbase now happening)
- Attacking hardware wallet companies. We all thought this was impossible. Now we witness that it is not.

I wonder what Trezor is going to do. It won't be long before governments come knocking on their door. I can't imagine any of those companies surviving their regulations. And if they don't comply now, surely they will be taken out of business in the future.

I'm not tech savvy enough to understand if buying a device (either Ledger or Trezor) allows us to safely store BTC if we do not update any software (ledger live app, for example) for an entire decade. I can't imagine trading to be easy unless you constantly go through exchanges (which are under attack) or you constantly use apps (Ledger Live) which can only continue if you update it.

Many parties were indeed surprised by Ledger's statement via a tweet made by the @Ledger_Support account on May 17, 2023 which has been deleted.
Of course, tweeting will give birth to various negative assumptions because it will have an impact on wallet security. Even other hardware wallets like Trezor have taken a swipe at Ledger for this statement.

Ledger has provided clarification regarding the surprising statement regarding the firmware.
Maybe some of us already know about the news about the contents of Ledger's clarification about the firmware.

Whether you opt to use the service or perform the upgrade isn’t the issue. The issue is that the way the device was designed was poorly because it shouldn’t be possible to extract the seed with a firmware upgrade which gets sent over the internet.

That seed should of never been able to leave the device. But we learnt that it’s not the case here. What if there is some fake software upgrade and people upgrade theirs and get their crypto stolen since it’s possible to extract the seed. What’s the point of the hardware wallet. Might as well stick with electrum.

Trezor is not a perfect hardware wallet too especially you have to spend money to buy Trezor wallet. It's not free at all and it is not much better than Ledger. They cooperated with Wasabi to spy transactions and do censorship. I don't like it with a wallet I have to pay expensive cost to buy.

[LIST] Open Source Hardware Wallets. They are not perfect hardware wallets too but I like them more than Ledger or Trezor.

You can use multi-sig wallets with Bitcoin Core, Electrum as alternatives for hardware wallets.

If you need wallets for tokens, you can use Safe wallet with multi-sig wallet.

^ With this announcement, that is definitely right, never use them at all.
The fact that just a year ago, the company claimed it was impossible for the seed to leave the device, but now they acknowledge its possibility, has further fueled the controversy. However, there is no funds have been stolen so far, but this incident has highlighted the potential vulnerabilities of hardware wallets, which were previously believed to be highly secure and we have a wrong thought.
From now on, I will not recommend that wallet at all.

In as much as I've always considered and recommended ledger and it's competitor company(trezor), to be the best type of wallet to store bitcoin and other crypto currencies since they are offline wallet, I've never owned any of this hardware wallet, and I do not have any plan of buying one any time soon, as I have been using mycelium and electrum wallets since 2016 and never encountered any issues, I simply have not seen a need to purchase a hardware wallet..

And this update of them providing a service that could backup user's seed phrase in the cloud indeed raises concern as to whether the hard ware wallet are truly secure and decentralized as people thought, this is a question only the company themselves can answer.

How can a non custodial hardware wallet perform the function of a custodial wallet and yet expect people to make ise of such, we aren't novice anymore, at least by now the whole experience of what is happening that people are loosing their asset to the hands of custodial exchanges should habe taught us enough lessons to avoid anything that has to do with custody of what belongs to is with another party, I've also seen a centralized exchange claiming they are building a decentralized exchange wallet for it users, what a mistery, we have to be careful because they are painting black as white for us and we should not accept such or fall in for such.

I hope so too.

It's going to put their sales into the pit and downhill if they ever will continue this even if it's visible that the community don't like this update that they've made.

We understand that they're a business but still it's important for them to retain that values that they've started with and the actual purpose why people are buying their products but not with this newest ones that they've got.

Which seems to me a very stupid move by ledger since up to now he has always said the opposite, the fact is that even the other hardware wallets that have open source software actually have the firmware of the closed secure element, this is quite normal because you don't want to reveal the cards on the table to avoid attacks but I repeat that what the ledger wants to do is not scary for me, i.e. the backup or the extraction of the seed which at this point is clear that it can be extracted but the fact that it wants storing seeds on different providers and these are all exposed to the network, so since ledger doesn't have a good reputation in data retention this is what scares me the most

People are making a huge deal about something that is not nearly as big as it is being sold to the misinformed. This added recovery feature, come as a subscription option and you have to pay for that, so not a lot of people are going to opt-in for that extra feature.

We know Ledger were hacked a few years ago.... and a lot of people's information were stolen.. then criminals used that data to launch targeted Phishing attacks on those clients.... so why will people trust them now? 

So this means all the suggestion about using hardware wallet such as ledger is a lie? How come no one audit their product code before it was release to the market. All of the person that advertised it as safe should be penalized in case damage is done? 

JK

I’m prepared that something like this is possible since they can be considered as centralized since no one do an audit to them. That's why air gapped DIY wallet is still the best rather than wallet that being manufactured by somebody since you will still need to trust the manufacturer for the integrity of the product since there is no way for us to check the code or software manually. I have a ledger but it's absurd to crash it now while my funds is safe on it for a long time.

I believe the Ledger company will come to its senses when people start avoiding their Ledger wallets.  It is really absurd offer/upgrade when most of the cryptocurrency gurus advise people to keep their wallets offline.  When veterans are informing people to keep their private key offline and keep away from the internet, ledger offers a service of saving private keys on cloud storage.  Are they nuts?  I think this action will kill the company, I hope it won't be late for them to readjust in the future.


I hope they listen to their community and revert back to the original idea and kick out the person who suggested that idea. 

I've heard about OWNR, how cool is this wallet? I guess it's another Trust wallet like aka hot wallet, it seems the best way is to write down recovery seeds and keep them offline, most hardware wallets are having issues I don't know why, there was one that look like a complete Android phone, so nice looking, I thought it will be the most secured hardware wallet until people start complaining about missing assets in the wallet, some said it's a bug and now I don't have interest in such hardware wallet ever again, if same thing happen with ledger then people will have no choice but to abandon Ledger and buy other hardware wallet.

I think that should not trust financial assets to anyone. There will always be a risk that the custodian, if he has the opportunity, will want to take someone else's.

Big hardware wallet manufacturers are gradually turning into a kind of banks. It looks like you are giving them your crypto for safekeeping and you have to trust them completely. Just for a word.

In the light of recent events (news about Ledger and Trezor), it seems that the time has come for people to reconsider their attitude towards hardware wallets. Where once these were reliable storage devices, security is now at risk. The most unpleasant thing about this is that the danger doesn't come from intruders or hackers, but from the manufacturer itself. It would seem that it sounds like nonsense, but we are all eyewitnesses of what is happening.

Only the owner should have access to the seed phrase and no HW device manufacturer has any right to claim it. It doesn't matter under what pretexts it is served.

AFAIK, this is still on the beta phase and Ledger's community and customers feedback isn't as interesting as it may seem and it's the opposite of the probable respond they'll get.

So by reading the feature on their website, it is not them that will actually do this feature but it's the company named Coincover.

Ledger Recover by Coincover

It's said that those who owns the old version Nano S aren't going to be affected much by only those that owns the newer model which is the X.

That's the service and it's a terrible additional service they've made. The response of the community that has been helping and supporting them all over the years is unwelcoming.

This makes me don't trust my Ledger anymore and will have to switch to Trezor.

Moving coins to a new wallet (not Ledger) and keep your Ledger wallet as a collectible. It might have some higher value in future when people look at history of Ledger and their wallet products.

They can change their minds and build new products, services but if they break basics to keep coins safely, it's bad no matter what types of product and service they want to build and release.

Just not yet. We don't know what will happen but fundamentally and technically, their latest movement is bad and it potentially causes something bad for their users.

Stop using it. Don't buy any new Ledger wallets in future.

What will be the assurance that the change to another hardware wallet won't make same announcement later?
I think this is a more penetrative means by government to get to the root of identifying every individual portfolio and wallets.
One thing that never fails to beat my imagination is that new wallets would be created by genius minds who have come to embrace the anonymity that crypto currency has offered.
Unless, no one is made an example of by the hardware wallet's new policy, then persons would opt for means to prevent their seed from being backed up by the wallet, as a prerequisite for limited storage of their coins.

Thoughts? Simple.

Don't update your firmware if you already own a Ledger, don't buy a Ledger if you don't own one. Buy a Trezor, preferably a Trezor One because it has lower attack vectors.

We can't trust a company which was breached in the past before. Plus how can we verify that they haven't already backdoored their devices?

If you think you are to remain more secured in a well and advanced way, it's better to seek for this security with bitcoincore, download the software and rule the nodes, this is the highest and advanced way to remain free from any form of doubtedness in keeping our asset secured.

If you're using any form of non custodial wallet under cold storage, then esure that's it's on a airgapped device which is not connected to the internet, electrum wallet is another better option in the his category, ensure you download it from their official website, but as for me, I wouldn't armit giving my KYC information to any of this seller of hardware wallet or use their service to secure my private keys or seedphrase.