Topic: Legal Advice / Answering Legal Questions (Read 4089 times)

I'm an American attorney (like NOLO) who is quite knowledgeable on Securities regulations and understand the cryptocurrencies. Knew to this site but been watching BTC and other since the inception. Also licensed in Ireland, so understand EU directives and policies. I can try to answer EU questions to the best of my knowledge or research them if needed and provide a general overview  (if needed) of US ones to supplement NOLO (who has been spot on for 5 min summaries so far). I don't want to overstep, so I'll let NOLO keep up on the US aspect unless i need to chime in with something additional.

Anyone know of anyone around here who is an expert in similar topics as the OP but is familiar with EU law?

Good question.  I'll mostly address the bASIC issue, since I know the most about that issue, and the principal place of business is in the U.S.  WARNING: What I am describing below is a 30,000 feet overview of the process, and what most commonly happens. Do NOT assume that everything that has to be done is listed below. Seek counsel in your own state. 

First, with any type of lawsuit you have a statute of limitations you have to be aware of.  With bASIC you are primarily dealing with a breach of contract case.  Sure there are some possible tortious fraudulent activity out there, but most judges don't like when you try to confuse a breach of contract case with torts.  So let's assume we're suing under a breach of contract theory.  Each state is different, so you have to check with your own, but the majority of jurisdictions is 6 years.  So no hurry here. 

So now we want to file a lawsuit.  Where do we do it?  Most commonly if you were under $25,000 in pre-orders, your looking at small claims court or what is commonly referred to as "General Sessions" by many states.  (It is called something different in many states though.)  Some states limit you to $5,000, some states limit you to $15,000.  You just have to check with your state, and for that matter each county in a particular state might have a different limit.  To file the suit all you have to do is pay the court costs (typically around $150) and file your "complaint".  There are countless examples of complaints on the internet, but they typically do not have to be very detailed to be sufficient.  You will have to serve him though.  You'll have to pay someone in NY to do that for you. 

Do you need an attorney?  It's up to you, but most of you are probably intelligent enough to meet the basic filing requirements to get into court yourself.  Tom almost certainly isn't going to show up to defend his actions.  You'll get a default judgment against him.  Then you have to take that default judgment to NY and execute it there.  I would sue him personally and in the names of bitcoinasic.com and btcfpga.com.  Research needs to be done to see if those companies were ever incorporated.  But either way, if you sue him personally, and he doesn't defend, you'll get a personal judgment against him.  Take it to NY and have it executed.  You can file it with NY banks, and they will freeze his funds, and send them to you in the amount of the judgment.  Or you can have the sheriff actually show up at his house and start taking his stuff.  As far as executing it, no you don't personally have to go to NY to try to collect.  There are companies you can hire in NY to actually do that for you.  You just have to file the judgment with the NY courts. (They have to comply under the Full Faith & Credit Clause of the Constitution).

And for anyone wondering about suing Tom in federal court, you can't do it.  It would have to be in state court.  The only way to sue him in federal court, would be if he owed you over $75,000 in refunds and you were from a different state than NY. 

Don't call the police, they don't care.  This is a civil matter.
Don't harass his family.  They didn't screw you over, and worst case, you could get in trouble doing that.
Secret Service doesn't care. 
Debt collection will take any case for the right price, but I don't see them getting anywhere in this case.  If Tom can ignore all of you, he can ignore their phone calls and letters just as easily.
The only possible people I would report him to would be the US Attorney's Office for NY and the NY Attorney General's Office.  They might care enough to do something.  But even if they did that will NOT help you get your money back.  That will only cause them to prosecute him based on some type of criminal activity.  If they win you still get nothing.

(Like I said, I typed this out in 5 minutes.  I'm sure I missed something.  Don't rely on it.  It's just a general overview of what I would do.)

Nolo, still here ?
I'm familiar with two cases:
CryptoXChange (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cryptoxchange-gone-broke-126724 )  - basically stopped services and severed communication - owners/company are Australian
bASIC ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=143496.0;topicseen ) - ASIC mining device - project failed, pre-order money taken and not returned, communication  stopped In this case, BTCFPGA/Tom is American.

They're similar with the Trendon Shavers case, not a ponzi scheme, but in that a larger group of people are affected, and each is owed a smaller sum (probably not worth hiring a lawyer for). Together the damages are quite large, but people inflicted are from all over the globe, didn't know each other before and have a hard time putting a fight together.

Maybe we can build a 'how-to' for such cases, they seem to pop-up from time to time in the BTC industry, which is still pretty much not regulated.

Basically, from your experience, what should the people do in such a case ? What I'm thinking of ?
1. Which kind of actions are worth taking into consideration ? I'm thinking:
a) laywer/case
b) direct contact (parents ? e. g. Trendon family contact- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109126.80 )
c) report to police
d) report to a regulatory institution (Money Laundering, Fair Trade, Finance  or something like this)
e) report to secret service
f) debt recovery agency (legal ways) - commission based

2. Which from 1. has the most chance to get your money back ?  Or what would be a top 3/5 ?

3. What would be the best first step / second step /third ?

Thanks,
Baboon

I obviously know very legal about the legal system in the Philippines and even less about the new Cybercrime law, so I decided to look it up.  Basically, it looks like a disaster.  Vast overreaching by the government.  It is almost blatantly obvious that it's real goal is to stifle speech, and not protect those that have been injured by false statements. 

I would hope that any attempt to pass something similar here in the U.S. would met with harsh criticism, and a Constitutional challenge. 

Hi again,

Recently, the world may have noticed the Philippines again with its new Cybercrime law, and online libel. Have you looked into it, and what are your opinions? Almost everyone is very vocal about it, the penalty for online libel is very much higher than if you had mentioned it in print or traditional media (radio, TV.)

Of course, that's not stopping anonymous libel. (so easy to make a blog and it goes viral, and you stay anonymous, just don't be stupid.)

I'm getting great questions from you guys in PMs.   Thanks again! 

Bump!!!  

I'm considering it.  In order to meet my ethical standards of "competency" I still feel I have a ways to go as far as education on the whole cryptocurrency type of transactions.  So don't want to go public until I feel fully qualified to handle those types of matters. 

But I am very grateful for the tip   Thank you! 

And thanks to everyone else for the kind words. 

I know... that's why I at least sent a tip his way!

Honestly, it'd be great to have a lawyer who was quite familiar with Bitcoins, and would be willing to defend/prosecute Bitcoin-related cases in court.  Not sure if that's something you're interested in Nolo, but "specializes in Bitcoin-related cases" might be a great thing to add to your or your employer's website.

What bitcoin needs is a league of lawyers, just incase uncle sam gets a wild hare up his ass and decides go all out guns ablazin'. When the day comes, and it will, we will need a collection of legal representatives to go at bat for bitcoin, which the community could fund (and its for damn sure they will donate if they want their precious bitcoins to keep their value).

As for the talk of constitutionality, being a fellow U.S citizen we both know our government, with its all knowing unchallenged wisdom, has already shat all over our constitution time and time again. All it takes is the words "national security" or "funding terrorist organizations", or anything along those lines and the debate is over, the doors are closed, and the war begins.

If you guys had any idea how much you should have paid for all this OP has posted so far...

I think it's great of you to offer this advice, and do it basically free. But I don't really understand why you bother, since you cannot even redeem the goodwill, since you will have to stay anonymous since you are not allowed to give this advice here as an attorney....

Anyways, carry on!

Agreed.  I think I said all of that.   

The reason Liberty Dollars were illegal was because of their design. Specifically they had phrases and words on them that were too close to actual government currency, things like the use of the word "dollar" and "In God We Trust" and $ signs and busts of women that looked governmental, things like that. The guy that mints "physical bitcoins" could get into trouble if he made them look too similar to actual government coins.

There are lots of "local" currencies that don't use any of these phrases that are perfectly legal. Bitcoins, being virtual, don't even come close to having the same problems that Liberty Dollars did. Not only that, Liberty Dollars were part of a larger anti-government conspiracy. They were going to take down Liberty Dollars no matter what.

If the gov't wants to shut you down, they can find a reason. Silk Road might put a target on Bitcoin's back, but it seems more likely that they'd go after Silk Road first. Besides they can't shut down Bitcoins as it's widely distributed on an on international network basis. Even a trial ruling in the USA would have no jurisdiction outside the USA.

I'll be honestly harsh.  I believe it is very difficult to have a fair criminal trial without a jury.  That is such a fundamental principle of American justice, that I have an incredibly difficult time with the idea of not having one.  

I know nothing of the judicial system in the Philippines other than what you have just told me.  So I'll move on to your next couple of questions, self-defense, justifiable homicide, and the 2nd Amendment.  I believe that the 2nd Amendment is a civil liberty the drafters of the Bill of Rights found necessary.  But this doesn't mean that this right is inviolate, and cannot have restrictions placed on it.  Just as the 1st Amendment, has restrictions (the most frequently invoked example is "You can't yell fire in a crowded theater"), so does and can the 2nd Amendment.  Clearly the Drafters did not envision fully automatic assault weapons.  Is the government within its right to ban such weapons?  In my opinion, absolutely.  Can the government restrict ownership to those it deems fit to grant a license to?  In my opinion, absolutely.  Can the government ban all firearms?  In my opinion, absolutely not.  Not until the Constitution is amended anyway, and that isn't happening anytime soon.  Now on to justification defenses.    


Self-Defense
If a person has a reasonable belief that he is in imminent danger of unlawful bodily harm, he may use that amount of force which is reasonably necessary to prevent such harm, unless he is the aggressor.

An aggressor is one who strikes the first blow or commits a crime against the victim.  The aggressor can regain the right of self-defense in either of two ways:
1) upon complete withdrawal perceived by the other party; or
2) escalation of force by the victim of the initial aggression.

The majority view of the states is that there is no duty to retreat.  In jurisdictions that do follow a retreat rule, one need not retreat unless it can be done in complete safety, and retreat need not be made in one's home.

Defense of Others
A defendant is justified in defending another person with reasonable force only if he reasonably believes the victim had a right to use such force.  Some jurisdictions limit this defense to situations where a special relationship exists between the defendant and the victim, while other jurisdictions view the defendant as "standing in the shoes" of the person defended.

Defense of Property
Reasonable non-deadly force is justified in defending one's property from theft, destruction, or trespass where the defendant has a reasonable belief that hte property is in immeidate danger and no greater force than necessary is used.  Non-deadly force is also proper when used to re-enter real property or regain prossession of wrongfully taken personal property upon immediate pursuit.

Deadly force is that which threatens death or serious bodily harm.  Non-deadly force threatens only bodily harm.  

The use of non-deadly force is improper where a request to desist would suffice.  (Example:  "Put down my book now!"  If this would suffice, then the use of force is not allowed.  This is viewed from a reasonably prudent person standard.  What would a reasonable person believe under the circumstances?)

Deadly force may NEVER be used merely to defend property.  However, by virtue of other defenses (self-defense, defense of others), deadly force may be used where unlawful interference with property is accompanied by a threat of deadly force or where the defender reasonably believes an entry will be made or attempted in his home by one intending to commit a felony.  

Law Enforcement Defenses
Police:  A police officer may use that amount of non-deadly force that he reasonably believes necessary to effect a lawful arrest or prevent the escape of the arrestee.  Deadly force may not be used to arrest or prevent the escape of a misdemeanor offender.  A police officer may use deadly force to prevent the commission of a dangerous felony or to effectuate an arrest where it is reasoanbly believed the person has committed a felony and the force is reasonably necessary to effectuate the arrest.  

Private Citizen: A private citizen is privileged to use that amount of non-deadly force that reasonably appears necessary to prevent the commission of a felony or a misdemeanor amounting to a breach of the peace.  A private citizen may use non-deadly force to make an arrest if the crime was in fact committed and he reaosnably believes the person against whom he uses the force committed the crime.  A private citizen may use the same amount of deadly force as a police officer only if a dangerous felony is involved and the person against whom he used the force is actually guilty of the crime.  (In other words, really bad idea to try this.  Let the police do their job.  If you do it, and you make a mistake, you're going to jail.)

Resisting Unlawful Arrest
A defendant may use reasonable non-deadly force to resist an unlawful arrest.  An individual may only resist a lawful arrest by a police officer where the individual does not know that the other person is a police officer.  (Once again, just don't do it if you know it is a cop)

Necessity
Even deadly force is justified to avoid imminent injury resulting from natural forces or where an individual reasonably believes that his criminal conduct is necessary to avoid a "greater harm".  (For example, Mark kills Sam to save Jane and Jill.)  There is no defense of necessity where the defendant is at fault in creating the perilous situation.  


If this summary of the law of justification has been helpful for you, please feel free to contribute to: 15vdQBqJ3FrVWAnkPTAUERVaco2ozsn3Ss
I do quite a bit of pro bono work, and any extra I can earn online providing legal advice, allows me to spend more time during the day assisting and providing high quality legal services to the indigent and those that simply can't afford high priced attorneys.

What country are you from again? United States / America? How much different is law from there and the Philippines for example? We have courts, but we do not have juries. The cases are decided by a judge. You do not get tried by 12 peers because there are no jurors.

Sometimes, you get tried in public by media, and sometimes media seems to have an effect on the judge. Also, some judges have refused certain cases because of who it involves (like some big time corrupt government official who has the means to kill the judge, which is not an uncommon event here.)

Recently we impeached our Chief Justice and appointed a new one who should sit there for the next 18 years. Some cases get special courts which are judged by Senators (like the recent impeachment of the previous Chief Justice.)

I am particularly interested in self defense and justifiable homicide, in the event it happens, while hoping it will ever happen, at least to me. An opinion on your thoughts about the 2nd amendment would be appreciated.

I have read about cases where an entire jeep was robbed, but a good samaritan killed the robber while disappearing.

I'm just messing with you.  I appreciate your honesty.  All you have as a lawyer is your reputation.  Pretty much the same way online. 

Hah, I bet!  Thing is, I hold myself to my word, and think it is despicable when others do not do the same.

I don't have a lot of money (certainly not compared to a lawyer's salary!) but I will give you a tip at least!

Lol if I had a BTC for every time a client has told me the check is in the mail 

Good answers, thanks for the insight Nolo.

I keep meaning to send you a tip, but forget every time I am at the computer actually holding my coins.  I will get to it someday though, I promise.