Lenders fighting SCAM together | Bitcointalksearch.org

altcoinhosting

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Quote from: --Encrypted-- on October 09, 2015, 01:01:56 AM

Quote from: altcoinhosting on October 09, 2015, 12:53:43 AM

No, defenately not... I mean he could use the account to do "bad" things just before it's in the escrow's possession... That way, it might still look clean when the escrow locks the account, but it might be -ve'd while it's locked... Unless the escrow leaves a neutral comment that this account is taken as collateral, and asks the DT member giving out -ve to contact the escrow before giving -ve to the collateral...

ah I see. but leaving a neutral saying that the account is being used as collateral will not prevent anyone from leaving negative feedback. also leaving feedback to the account collateral will cause problems because (1) the neutral need to have a referenced link in order to prevent people from leaving a fake feedback on their own alt. this will lead to (2) privacy issues, the referenced link will contain a post of the borrower's other account.

Indeed, i didn't even think about (2). This is a real issue here Sad

The reason i'm bringing up this topic, is because it happened to me before. Somebody took a loan and gave his account as collateral. Upon inspection, it looked clean. I locked the account and gave him a small loan.
After a couple of weeks, i found out the borrower actually took out 2 non-collateral loans over PM using the account he gave to me as collateral. I had to contact both other lenders and ask them to please not -ve the account since it would render my collateral useless... Luckily, those were good guys that understood my problem, but if they had posted the account as a loan defaulter, it might have been -ve'd.
Even worse: somebody in DT could potentially have -ve'd the account AFTER i sold the collateral (if i didn't find out he had used it to take out other loans)... My good reputation would have been shattered if i sold an account that was later -ve'd...

--Encrypted--

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hee-ho.

Quote from: altcoinhosting on October 09, 2015, 12:53:43 AM

No, defenately not... I mean he could use the account to do "bad" things just before it's in the escrow's possession... That way, it might still look clean when the escrow locks the account, but it might be -ve'd while it's locked... Unless the escrow leaves a neutral comment that this account is taken as collateral, and asks the DT member giving out -ve to contact the escrow before giving -ve to the collateral...

ah I see. but leaving a neutral saying that the account is being used as collateral will not prevent anyone from leaving negative feedback. also leaving feedback to the account collateral will cause problems because (1) the neutral need to have a referenced link in order to prevent people from leaving a fake feedback on their own alt. this will lead to (2) privacy issues, the referenced link will contain a post of the borrower's other account.

TheGr33k

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Quote from: altcoinhosting on October 09, 2015, 12:58:35 AM

Quote from: TheGr33k on October 09, 2015, 12:55:39 AM

My assumption is that the account is held in a trusted, preferably staff escrow. If the borrower hands the accounts over directly to the lender then I agree it should be tagged as well. I would never suggest this, but if that's how people want to handle business then that is their own business.

I give out micro-loans most of the time, and working without escrow happens all the time. I always suggest the lendee picks an escrow to hold his account (or the account he's offering as collateral), but usually they don't want to go trough the hassle, the fees, the tipping,... And they end up sending me the account details.
I'd rather change this to, but for small loans (0.01-0.05) it's actually hard to use an escrow and still make a profit.

Well then I think that both accounts should be tagged with neutral trust in this instance and whoever has claimed ownership over the account publicly would assume responsibility for the actions. It wouldn't seem right, should a lender maliciously use a borrower's account that the borrower be punished, does it? So if the ownership is publicly accountable and verifiable this may aid to combat this scenario.

altcoinhosting

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Quote from: TheGr33k on October 09, 2015, 12:55:39 AM

My assumption is that the account is held in a trusted, preferably staff escrow. If the borrower hands the accounts over directly to the lender then I agree it should be tagged as well. I would never suggest this, but if that's how people want to handle business then that is their own business.

I give out micro-loans most of the time, and working without escrow happens all the time. I always suggest the lendee picks an escrow to hold his account (or the account he's offering as collateral), but usually they don't want to go trough the hassle, the fees, the tipping,... And they end up sending me the account details.
I'd rather change this to, but for small loans (0.01-0.05) it's actually hard to use an escrow and still make a profit.

The collateral is not so valuable either way... For a micro loan, i usually get member or full member accounts with low potential activity... They're worth less than some of the fee's a professional escrow is charging Sad

TheGr33k

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Quote from: altcoinhosting on October 09, 2015, 12:41:09 AM

Quote from: TheGr33k on October 09, 2015, 12:00:51 AM

You would tag whichever account applied for the loan and leave a neutral reputation on the applying account stating the account you are holding for collateral, as the collateral account wouldn't be necessary to tag because it's under an escrow's possession. (The applicant can optionally choose to neutral their own account stating that it's under escrow)

Isn't this dangerous? If you only tag the account that applies for the loan, and not the account in escrow, you are running the risk that the lendee used the account currently in escrow to do some nasty stuff a couple of days before handing it over (take non-collateral loans which haven't been payed back, scamming, trolling,...). In this case, the account might seem clean when you take it as collateral, but somebody on DT -ve's it after it has been locked down for a couple of days...

Quote from: MrPeoples on October 08, 2015, 02:25:55 PM

Has anyone considered or researched the idea of a Reddit style loan bot?

It has been mentioned before, and is one of the choices in the poll Wink

Don't hesistate to cast your vote if this option is your favorite

My assumption is that the account is held in a trusted, preferably staff escrow. If the borrower hands the accounts over directly to the lender then I agree it should be tagged as well. I would never suggest this, but if that's how people want to handle business then that is their own business.

altcoinhosting

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Quote from: --Encrypted-- on October 09, 2015, 12:49:41 AM

Quote from: altcoinhosting on October 09, 2015, 12:41:09 AM

Isn't this dangerous? If you only tag the account that applies for the loan, and not the account in escrow, you are running the risk that the lendee used the account currently in escrow to do some nasty stuff a couple of days before handing it over (take non-collateral loans which haven't been payed back, scamming, trolling,...). In this case, the account might seem clean when you take it as collateral, but somebody on DT -ve's it after it has been locked down for a couple of days...

I don't understand this. are you saying that the borrower might use the account collateral while it's still on the escrow's possession?

No, defenately not... I mean he could use the account to do "bad" things just before it's in the escrow's possession... That way, it might still look clean when the escrow locks the account, but it might be -ve'd while it's locked... Unless the escrow leaves a neutral comment that this account is taken as collateral, and asks the DT member giving out -ve to contact the escrow before giving -ve to the collateral...

ajrah

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Quote from: altcoinhosting on October 09, 2015, 12:41:09 AM

Quote from: TheGr33k on October 09, 2015, 12:00:51 AM

You would tag whichever account applied for the loan and leave a neutral reputation on the applying account stating the account you are holding for collateral, as the collateral account wouldn't be necessary to tag because it's under an escrow's possession. (The applicant can optionally choose to neutral their own account stating that it's under escrow)

Isn't this dangerous? If you only tag the account that applies for the loan, and not the account in escrow, you are running the risk that the lendee used the account currently in escrow to do some nasty stuff a couple of days before handing it over (take non-collateral loans which haven't been payed back, scamming, trolling,...). In this case, the account might seem clean when you take it as collateral, but somebody on DT -ve's it after it has been locked down for a couple of days...

I think there will be no harm if both forum account will be tagged, one will be tagged for asking for loan and the other account will be tagged as used as collateral for a loan reference link will be same.

--Encrypted--

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hee-ho.

Quote from: altcoinhosting on October 09, 2015, 12:41:09 AM

Isn't this dangerous? If you only tag the account that applies for the loan, and not the account in escrow, you are running the risk that the lendee used the account currently in escrow to do some nasty stuff a couple of days before handing it over (take non-collateral loans which haven't been payed back, scamming, trolling,...). In this case, the account might seem clean when you take it as collateral, but somebody on DT -ve's it after it has been locked down for a couple of days...

I don't understand this. are you saying that the borrower might use the account collateral while it's still on the escrow's possession? that shouldn't be possible because the escrow will change the password.

altcoinhosting

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Quote from: TheGr33k on October 09, 2015, 12:00:51 AM

You would tag whichever account applied for the loan and leave a neutral reputation on the applying account stating the account you are holding for collateral, as the collateral account wouldn't be necessary to tag because it's under an escrow's possession. (The applicant can optionally choose to neutral their own account stating that it's under escrow)

Isn't this dangerous? If you only tag the account that applies for the loan, and not the account in escrow, you are running the risk that the lendee used the account currently in escrow to do some nasty stuff a couple of days before handing it over (take non-collateral loans which haven't been payed back, scamming, trolling,...). In this case, the account might seem clean when you take it as collateral, but somebody on DT -ve's it after it has been locked down for a couple of days...

Quote from: MrPeoples on October 08, 2015, 02:25:55 PM

Has anyone considered or researched the idea of a Reddit style loan bot?

It has been mentioned before, and is one of the choices in the poll Wink

Don't hesistate to cast your vote if this option is your favorite

TheGr33k

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Quote from: ajrah on October 08, 2015, 09:26:45 PM

Quote from: --Encrypted-- on October 07, 2015, 01:43:36 AM

hrrmmm... I might have found something that will make my own idea have bad consequences in the long run.

basically, my idea requires the lender to remove their feedback once the loan has been repaid. but I forgot to take inactivity into account (a lender might suddenly go silent and never remove their feedback)

for some reason I didn't think of this until now. Undecided

but this can be neutralized to some degree by providing a reference link on all of your feedback so that lenders can check the latest "loan" feedback reference to see if the loan has been repaid or not. in this case, lenders may leave those feedbacks as they are rather than removing it after the loan has been repaid.

What about those asking for a loan using a different account to post and request like a Newbie or Jr Member then collateral that will be used is a Full Member or a Senior Member, which one do you tag? Both forum accounts?

You would tag whichever account applied for the loan and leave a neutral reputation on the applying account stating the account you are holding for collateral, as the collateral account wouldn't be necessary to tag because it's under an escrow's possession. (The applicant can optionally choose to neutral their own account stating that it's under escrow)

ajrah

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Quote from: --Encrypted-- on October 07, 2015, 01:43:36 AM

hrrmmm... I might have found something that will make my own idea have bad consequences in the long run.

basically, my idea requires the lender to remove their feedback once the loan has been repaid. but I forgot to take inactivity into account (a lender might suddenly go silent and never remove their feedback)

for some reason I didn't think of this until now. Undecided

but this can be neutralized to some degree by providing a reference link on all of your feedback so that lenders can check the latest "loan" feedback reference to see if the loan has been repaid or not. in this case, lenders may leave those feedbacks as they are rather than removing it after the loan has been repaid.

What about those asking for a loan using a different account to post and request like a Newbie or Jr Member then collateral that will be used is a Full Member or a Senior Member, which one do you tag? Both forum accounts?

MrPeoples

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Has anyone considered or researched the idea of a Reddit style loan bot?

altcoinhosting

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Quote from: master sato on October 08, 2015, 05:19:52 AM

Quote from: altcoinhosting on October 08, 2015, 03:50:34 AM

Quote from: master sato on October 08, 2015, 02:51:51 AM

its a lot hardwork from you..i mean just for micro loans though, it can be stopped if taken care at that moment itself.
however keep up the good work.

You're right... It's hard work Wink

BUT, i really hate people that scam, and since i think of this as a one-time job (finding a community concensus, and maybe build a ledger), i'm willing to do it

BTW: i added the possibility to add loans to the ledger!!!
The database will be truncated (swiped) after the demo-phase, so you can add some demo-loans if you wish!

what do you mean demo loans ..?I can loan some amount ...
however ,message me how much you want ....if I can.

No, the system is just a demo... it uses demo data... Meaning that lenders cannot use it to lookup information as long as it's filled with demo data

If the community votes to use my system, i'll implement all features, erase all demo data, and everybody can start filling the database with their actual loans.

master sato

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Quote from: altcoinhosting on October 08, 2015, 03:50:34 AM

Quote from: master sato on October 08, 2015, 02:51:51 AM

its a lot hardwork from you..i mean just for micro loans though, it can be stopped if taken care at that moment itself.
however keep up the good work.

You're right... It's hard work Wink

BUT, i really hate people that scam, and since i think of this as a one-time job (finding a community concensus, and maybe build a ledger), i'm willing to do it

BTW: i added the possibility to add loans to the ledger!!!
The database will be truncated (swiped) after the demo-phase, so you can add some demo-loans if you wish!

what do you mean demo loans ..?I can loan some amount ...
however ,message me how much you want ....if I can.

whywefight

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www.explorerz.top

Quote from: lemipawa on October 08, 2015, 04:13:43 AM

I was hoping to see a google spreadsheet like the ones used by the signature campaign managers of instead of the site altcoinhosting site, but site looks good and might help those who plans to lend coins in the future

so wee would need multiple ppl with write permission, to much hassle in case somoe wipes it all out

altcoinhosting

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Quote from: lemipawa on October 08, 2015, 04:13:43 AM

I was hoping to see a google spreadsheet like the ones used by the signature campaign managers of instead of the site altcoinhosting site, but site looks good and might help those who plans to lend coins in the future

Well, it's just a demo... A lot of features need to be added to make it more user-friendly.... I just wanted to show the community the basic solution i had in my head.
Anyways, thanks for the heads-up

lemipawa

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I was hoping to see a google spreadsheet like the ones used by the signature campaign managers of instead of the site altcoinhosting site, but site looks good and might help those who plans to lend coins in the future

altcoinhosting

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The poll is open!!! https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/poll-lenders-fighting-scammers-together-1203414

altcoinhosting

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Quote from: master sato on October 08, 2015, 02:51:51 AM

its a lot hardwork from you..i mean just for micro loans though, it can be stopped if taken care at that moment itself.
however keep up the good work.

You're right... It's hard work Wink

BUT, i really hate people that scam, and since i think of this as a one-time job (finding a community concensus, and maybe build a ledger), i'm willing to do it

BTW: i added the possibility to add loans to the ledger!!!
The database will be truncated (swiped) after the demo-phase, so you can add some demo-loans if you wish!

master sato

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Quote from: altcoinhosting on October 08, 2015, 02:35:05 AM

Quote from: whywefight on October 08, 2015, 02:28:51 AM

Not sure if this is already reported:

- search does not work
- fetching my data works
- lenders dashboard is blank after login, but i think that current status of development.

tdlr: i want to play with it Cheesy

Indeed, it's in development Wink

I'm looking for a lot of community support before i invest a lot more time (it would be a waste if i spend hours developing, but the community choses a different path)

I can add a couple demo-loans for you directly in the database if you'd like to see something in your dashboard, or i could add the basic submit-form..
I'm still not completely convinced i'll provide delete and edit-functionality... Maybe just an add-form, and a button to indicate the loan has been repayed/defaulted... Just to make it a static ledger...

its a lot hardwork from you..i mean just for micro loans though, it can be stopped if taken care at that moment itself.
however keep up the good work.

Topic: Lenders fighting SCAM together (Read 4212 times)