Lenders fighting SCAM together - page 2.

altcoinhosting

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Quote from: whywefight on October 08, 2015, 02:28:51 AM

Not sure if this is already reported:

- search does not work
- fetching my data works
- lenders dashboard is blank after login, but i think that current status of development.

tdlr: i want to play with it Cheesy

Indeed, it's in development Wink

I'm looking for a lot of community support before i invest a lot more time (it would be a waste if i spend hours developing, but the community choses a different path)

I can add a couple demo-loans for you directly in the database if you'd like to see something in your dashboard, or i could add the basic submit-form..
I'm still not completely convinced i'll provide delete and edit-functionality... Maybe just an add-form, and a button to indicate the loan has been repayed/defaulted... Just to make it a static ledger...

whywefight

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Not sure if this is already reported:

- search does not work
- fetching my data works
- lenders dashboard is blank after login, but i think that current status of development.

tdlr: i want to play with it Cheesy

TheGr33k

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Quote from: altcoinhosting on October 08, 2015, 01:08:52 AM

Quote from: TheGr33k on October 08, 2015, 12:52:58 AM

Thanks for the acknowledgement of my idear Tongue

and I hope that we can get a working system implemented that'll make this a whole lot easier ASAP because currently it's a lot of investigative work prior to throwing anybody a loan from the lender's point of view. My thread isn't much right now, but I'm sure as more and more lenders throw in their active loans and keep it up to date it'll be a valuable resource to check at the very least prior to lending.

The only thing that worries me about your thread is the sheer amount of work you'll have to put into it to keep it active... As long as you're willing to do that, it might be one of the best sollutions...
I'm just worried one day you won't have time anymore to update the thread Wink

Well... I think i'll open a poll at the end of today's workday, and i'll just follow the majority of the voters... wether it's my system, or any other system that was proposed, i'll go for it. In the end, the scamming has to stop, that's the most important thing Grin

If the thread becomes too much of a hassle, or if my availability suddenly shrinks then hopefully one of the alternative solutions have progressed to a significant degree! I don't mind doing the work for now, it's always nice to have something to do when you're bored and I'll start to make an "Update schedule" so that it'll be updated maybe once at 11AM and again at 11PM or something similar to that.

altcoinhosting

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Quote from: TheGr33k on October 08, 2015, 12:52:58 AM

Thanks for the acknowledgement of my idear Tongue

and I hope that we can get a working system implemented that'll make this a whole lot easier ASAP because currently it's a lot of investigative work prior to throwing anybody a loan from the lender's point of view. My thread isn't much right now, but I'm sure as more and more lenders throw in their active loans and keep it up to date it'll be a valuable resource to check at the very least prior to lending.

The only thing that worries me about your thread is the sheer amount of work you'll have to put into it to keep it active... As long as you're willing to do that, it might be one of the best sollutions...
I'm just worried one day you won't have time anymore to update the thread Wink

Well... I think i'll open a poll at the end of today's workday, and i'll just follow the majority of the voters... wether it's my system, or any other system that was proposed, i'll go for it. In the end, the scamming has to stop, that's the most important thing Grin

TheGr33k

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Thanks for the acknowledgement of my idear Tongue

and I hope that we can get a working system implemented that'll make this a whole lot easier ASAP because currently it's a lot of investigative work prior to throwing anybody a loan from the lender's point of view. My thread isn't much right now, but I'm sure as more and more lenders throw in their active loans and keep it up to date it'll be a valuable resource to check at the very least prior to lending.

altcoinhosting

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Hi Guys, i tried to respond to most of the questions raised during my offline time Grin

Quote from: whywefight on October 07, 2015, 03:19:28 PM

i dont know if you can go with google auth but thats very common, at least for me. email would also be okay, imho. i am fine with all the data around

I can look into getting google 2fa to, it's not a real technical issue

Quote from: masterzino on October 07, 2015, 08:26:33 PM

Look nice!

Now the big question is - How/who will determinate whom should have access to post/modify in it?

My suggestion is users with lenders threads.

I can add a mandatory field: loan thread when assigning a password to your uid... That way, it would be easy to moderate. In case of abuse: check if the loanthread is indeed opened by the person who's uid is intered...

Quote from: TheGr33k on October 07, 2015, 08:49:16 PM

I would do it for the sake of saving everyone headaches.
Honestly I don't see it as much of a hassle if everyone posts the loan on the thread and OP adds it to his log, when the loan is concluded the lender contacts OP to have the loan updated.
Wouldn't be hard, and honestly shouldn't need incentive if it's saving BTC from the wrong hands.

Let's not waste any time : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lenders-log-check-here-prior-to-loaning-1203224

I like your idear, i'll add it to the op, and to the poll i'll open today or tomorrow. Thanks!

Quote from: lottery248 on October 07, 2015, 11:54:15 PM

i agree, but more likely lead to admin abuse.

True... That's indeed a big downside. I could give access to a databasedump to a couple trusted members, in case i'm corrupted, they can restore the database and take me out of the picture. Would that help?

lottery248

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beware of your keys.

i agree, but more likely lead to admin abuse.

TheGr33k

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Quote from: masterzino on October 07, 2015, 08:57:59 PM

Quote from: TheGr33k on October 07, 2015, 08:49:16 PM

Quote from: masterzino on October 07, 2015, 08:46:50 PM

Quote from: TheGr33k on October 07, 2015, 08:31:33 PM

I think it could be as simple as one person starting a thread of "Current Loans" and whatever lender wants to participate can place their public loans in this thread.
Would be as simple as clicking that thread and Ctrl + F the user's Name/UID.

OP would handled keeping things updated, and any new loans would just be posted into the thread so OP can organize.
OP acting as a book-keeper for loans, probably would even get stickied.

It's a nice idea, but what incentive would OP have to do it?
What compensation will have for his time? For example most of the loans are in 0.001-0.01 range. And if you need to pay "attention fee", the fee will eat of of your profit.

I would do it for the sake of saving everyone headaches.
Honestly I don't see it as much of a hassle if everyone posts the loan on the thread and OP adds it to his log, when the loan is concluded the lender contacts OP to have the loan updated.
Wouldn't be hard, and honestly shouldn't need incentive if it's saving BTC from the wrong hands.

Agree. But but it will be much more diligent for be on a DB with search instead of searching a thread with zillion messages. And it will take equal time for the lender to put in on DB instead of thread. Then will be quicker to mark it as paid on DB instead of thread. My thoughts are about simplicity and time consumption.

I'll maintain a thread until this occurs, and hopefully it'll be helpful to some degree in the meantime. Any interested lenders can contact me via pm, or post on the thread and I'll add all their active loans.

masterzino

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Quote from: TheGr33k on October 07, 2015, 08:49:16 PM

Quote from: masterzino on October 07, 2015, 08:46:50 PM

Quote from: TheGr33k on October 07, 2015, 08:31:33 PM

I think it could be as simple as one person starting a thread of "Current Loans" and whatever lender wants to participate can place their public loans in this thread.
Would be as simple as clicking that thread and Ctrl + F the user's Name/UID.

OP would handled keeping things updated, and any new loans would just be posted into the thread so OP can organize.
OP acting as a book-keeper for loans, probably would even get stickied.

It's a nice idea, but what incentive would OP have to do it?
What compensation will have for his time? For example most of the loans are in 0.001-0.01 range. And if you need to pay "attention fee", the fee will eat of of your profit.

I would do it for the sake of saving everyone headaches.
Honestly I don't see it as much of a hassle if everyone posts the loan on the thread and OP adds it to his log, when the loan is concluded the lender contacts OP to have the loan updated.
Wouldn't be hard, and honestly shouldn't need incentive if it's saving BTC from the wrong hands.

Agree. But but it will be much more diligent for be on a DB with search instead of searching a thread with zillion messages. And it will take equal time for the lender to put in on DB instead of thread. Then will be quicker to mark it as paid on DB instead of thread. My thoughts are about simplicity and time consumption.

TheGr33k

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Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: masterzino on October 07, 2015, 08:46:50 PM

Quote from: TheGr33k on October 07, 2015, 08:31:33 PM

I think it could be as simple as one person starting a thread of "Current Loans" and whatever lender wants to participate can place their public loans in this thread.
Would be as simple as clicking that thread and Ctrl + F the user's Name/UID.

OP would handled keeping things updated, and any new loans would just be posted into the thread so OP can organize.
OP acting as a book-keeper for loans, probably would even get stickied.

It's a nice idea, but what incentive would OP have to do it?
What compensation will have for his time? For example most of the loans are in 0.001-0.01 range. And if you need to pay "attention fee", the fee will eat of of your profit.

I would do it for the sake of saving everyone headaches.
Honestly I don't see it as much of a hassle if everyone posts the loan on the thread and OP adds it to his log, when the loan is concluded the lender contacts OP to have the loan updated.
Wouldn't be hard, and honestly shouldn't need incentive if it's saving BTC from the wrong hands.

Let's not waste any time : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lenders-log-check-here-prior-to-loaning-1203224

masterzino

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Quote from: TheGr33k on October 07, 2015, 08:31:33 PM

I think it could be as simple as one person starting a thread of "Current Loans" and whatever lender wants to participate can place their public loans in this thread.
Would be as simple as clicking that thread and Ctrl + F the user's Name/UID.

OP would handled keeping things updated, and any new loans would just be posted into the thread so OP can organize.
OP acting as a book-keeper for loans, probably would even get stickied.

It's a nice idea, but what incentive would OP have to do it?
What compensation will have for his time? For example most of the loans are in 0.001-0.01 range. And if you need to pay "attention fee", the fee will eat of of your profit.

TheGr33k

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

I think it could be as simple as one person starting a thread of "Current Loans" and whatever lender wants to participate can place their public loans in this thread.
Would be as simple as clicking that thread and Ctrl + F the user's Name/UID.

OP would handled keeping things updated, and any new loans would just be posted into the thread so OP can organize.
OP acting as a book-keeper for loans, probably would even get stickied.

masterzino

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Activity: 1218

Merit: 513

Look nice!

Now the big question is - How/who will determinate whom should have access to post/modify in it?

My suggestion is users with lenders threads.

whywefight

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www.explorerz.top

Quote from: altcoinhosting on October 07, 2015, 02:55:07 PM

Quote from: whywefight on October 07, 2015, 01:58:11 PM

looks good so far. yeah css would be nice. also data of defaulted loans should not be deleted. 2fa would be cool.

2fa will go on my todo list Wink

(css is already on there)

What kind of 2fa were you thinking about?
I could send a mail, but in that case the lender should enter his email (making the system less anonymous). Maybe user/pass, and afterwards sign a new login message with the bitcoinaddress in the profile each login?

maybe i should remove the delete-button, so no data will ever be deleted?

i dont know if you can go with google auth but thats very common, at least for me. email would also be okay, imho. i am fine with all the data around

altcoinhosting

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Quote from: whywefight on October 07, 2015, 01:58:11 PM

looks good so far. yeah css would be nice. also data of defaulted loans should not be deleted. 2fa would be cool.

2fa will go on my todo list Wink

(css is already on there)

What kind of 2fa were you thinking about?
I could send a mail, but in that case the lender should enter his email (making the system less anonymous). Maybe user/pass, and afterwards sign a new login message with the bitcoinaddress in the profile each login?

maybe i should remove the delete-button, so no data will ever be deleted?

whywefight

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Quote from: altcoinhosting on October 07, 2015, 08:36:10 AM

I'm developing a small, functioning but limited demo as we speak...

http://www.altcoinhosting.com/ledger/

It looks terrible, and not all functions are already implemented, but it should give a basic idear about my proposal...

Don't worry if you get errors or timeouts, i'm developing it as we speak (i guess i'll finish the demo tomorrow afternoon when i have some more time)

At the moment, no loans can be inserted, edited or deleted... This means you CAN generate a password for yourself, but you cannot add anything, so you'll basically see an empty table when you login with your own uid. I manually added some of my open loans directly into the database, you're free to look at the lenders demo dashboard using my uid (513122) and the password 'test' (no quotes).
I filled in most of the fields when adding my own loans, but only lender and lendee are actually required

Last point of order: it's demo software... The security isn't good yet, please do not enter your personal passwords (they are hashed, but during the session they are stored unencrypted).
Also, i don't do a lot of input verification yet... Embarrassed

My Todo list to transform this demo into functioning software (most of this will only happen if we vote on this subject, and the majority of the lenders choses to use this tool)

Add some .css to make this look nice
Beef up the security (input validation, only cache encrypted passwords
Sort-functionality on the public page
when adding a password to your uid, giving the possibility to add standard values for your uid to the database(like loanthread)
in the dashboard, add the functionality to remove, add and delete loans
in the dashboard, add sorting and searching functionality
in the dashboard, add a nice overview (invested amount, open loans, defaulted loans,...)
pagination
a basic public and private API

looks good so far. yeah css would be nice. also data of defaulted loans should not be deleted. 2fa would be cool.

altcoinhosting

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Activity: 896

Merit: 1006

I'm developing a small, functioning but limited demo as we speak...

http://www.altcoinhosting.com/ledger/

It looks terrible, and not all functions are already implemented, but it should give a basic idear about my proposal...

Don't worry if you get errors or timeouts, i'm developing it as we speak (i guess i'll finish the demo tomorrow afternoon when i have some more time)

At the moment, no loans can be inserted, edited or deleted... This means you CAN generate a password for yourself, but you cannot add anything, so you'll basically see an empty table when you login with your own uid. I manually added some of my open loans directly into the database, you're free to look at the lenders demo dashboard using my uid (513122) and the password 'test' (no quotes).
I filled in most of the fields when adding my own loans, but only lender and lendee are actually required

Last point of order: it's demo software... The security isn't good yet, please do not enter your personal passwords (they are hashed, but during the session they are stored unencrypted).
Also, i don't do a lot of input verification yet... Embarrassed

My Todo list to transform this demo into functioning software (most of this will only happen if we vote on this subject, and the majority of the lenders choses to use this tool)

Add some .css to make this look nice
Beef up the security (input validation, only cache encrypted passwords
Sort-functionality on the public page
when adding a password to your uid, giving the possibility to add standard values for your uid to the database(like loanthread)
in the dashboard, add the functionality to remove, add and delete loans
in the dashboard, add sorting and searching functionality
in the dashboard, add a nice overview (invested amount, open loans, defaulted loans,...)
pagination
a basic public and private API

masterzino

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For me simple things are best.

Inactivity is a problem with all of the ideas - e.g. trust should be removed, record from DB should be removed - in all cases lender should confirm he got his money back.

But simple public interface where to check by username (user id) is best.

Because extension is harder for development and require all of lenders to use same browser?! I may like chrome, firefox or even new IE.

whywefight

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Quote from: monbux on October 06, 2015, 08:13:44 PM

A much easier way to fight this:

Get all lenders (the main ones at least) to REQUIRE the borrower to post his/her loan request publicly on their loaning thread, as well as try and update their current loans section.

yupp ofc, but still you have to check all the places. thats what most ppl do but some users manage to slip thru

altcoinhosting

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Quote from: --Encrypted-- on October 07, 2015, 01:43:36 AM

hrrmmm... I might have found something that will make my own idea have bad consequences in the long run.

basically, my idea requires the lender to remove their feedback once the loan has been repaid. but I forgot to take inactivity into account (a lender might suddenly go silent and never remove their feedback)

for some reason I didn't think of this until now. Undecided

but this can be neutralized to some degree by providing a reference link on all of your feedback so that lenders can check the latest "loan" feedback reference to see if the loan has been repaid or not. in this case, lenders may leave those feedbacks as they are rather than removing it after the loan has been repaid.

Good point, i'm adding this to my overview... I still like your idear, and think it's a good candidate for a community sollution

Topic: Lenders fighting SCAM together - page 2. (Read 4212 times)