Topic: Let's finally remove Locked and Self Mod topics from the Marketplace - page 2. (Read 927 times)

I wouldn't be completely opposed to restricting self moderated/locked threads in marketplace for newbies only. It doesn't take very long to rank up. The problem is then they will just rank up and continue anyways so... just basically a slightly higher barrier of entry.

Pretty much, I'd say 99% of newbie sellers using a locked self moderated thread to "sell" stuff are scammers.

And for those defending locked threads in the digital goods section how about posting some here that are not scam threads. I'll be waiting.

Moderators are often slow to act and have very little incentive to clean up everyone's marketplace threads. This was in fact part of the reason it was implemented in the first place to allow users to police their own sales threads and free up moderators for more pressing matters. You don't see a ton of people advocating for this feature BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAVE IT. What would be the point of being like "OH HEY I just wanted to make a post voicing my support for the existing system we already have! its great thank you!" /end thread. ?

I don't have time to do your research for you sorry. Just take my word this has been discussed over and over and over again. Or don't and actually spend the time yourself to dig those threads up. I have no reason to lie about this. This has been a debate since day one of self moderated threads and even before in some contexts. Removing self moderated/locked threads is not going to get rid of fraudulent gift cards or other fraud. It existed before self moderated threads and it will continue to exist no matter what features you strip from the contributing members of this forum.

This hasn't just "been how it always has been", I was around before self moderated and locked topics and market place, and it sucked having to constantly beg moderators who often don't give a fuck about your ability to make a sale ignore your reports perpetually and having every thread shit on with people either posting their own products for sale, trolling, trying to brow beat the price down, or saying stupid shit like "oh Wallmart has it cheaper here "LINK". Nothing is stopping you from negative rating abusers of these features or making threads in scam accusations.

Maybe you think or see a ton of threads I miss where legit users are in need of this feature. Feel free to point them out. The point of this topic was not to dismiss the idea, but bring the discussion centered around this point to one place for review and discussion. Who's to say getting whitelisted wouldn't be a painless process, is the unknown of how the system rolls out enough reason to discredit it before it's trialed?

Feel free to point me to any of the threads that had an indepth discussion about this, and reasoning behind the decision to keep it in place. I looked and couldn't find it. I never stated that I recently had the most original thought and simplest of fixes. I don't get the comparison to sidewalks maybe that works for some but I think we can find enough examples within the marketplace to have this discussion like below.
And given your history and use of the system you would be someone that would look to be whitelisted. I envision a pinned topic where people can post seeking to be whitelisted, might be congested at first but after the initial launch would die down considerably.

Probably a net negative imho if we're talking just the marketplace. It seems to be used majorly by scammers in there. Maybe admins should look at other alternatives. What about only certain ranks can self-moderate threads in the marketplace??? Is there any reason to allow brand new Newbie Members to be able to do so especially when most of them are scammers??? I don't think that would be huge inconvenience to new users and I'd say the majority of new users utilizing the feature will just be scammers in the first place. Maybe make users earn the right to self-moderation??? Perhaps make it so you have to be a Member and up. Not so easy to get your account to Member status but anyone can create a new disposable Newbie account which they will abandon if it gets red tagged. Scammers may be less inclined to waste their precious Member accounts and the ten merit it takes to be one.
 

Sparta may have been real but that film was mostly fantasy.

I always make sales threads with self-moderation enabled because of three reasons mainly,

• Prevent sales trash
• Prevent spam & shitposting for the sake of sig
• Prevent others to promote his/her products/services in my threads

It's not to manipulate or because of dishonesty, I always make OP as transparent as possible, even after that someone gets an issue then they are always welcome to create a thread against me in rep board (if I have deleted anyone's post from my threads for trying to manipulate or for being dishonest).

For example, yesterday someone posted to promote his service in my thread and I have deleted that right away.

I'm posting this to say that self-moderated option is needed in every board for any reason, but what I don't like about this option to be available for newbies and jr.members.
They really don't have anything to lose. If their account gets tagged then they will create a new one with no time and will start scamming again or do whatever their bad intention is.

From this thread where theymos brought up the self moderated topic option Link: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/self-moderated-topics-152876

You would say it was to was to effect positively the reply a post that is self moderated can get. But IMO(stand to be corrected) I don't think at that scam and fraud on the part of the OP was in major consideration.  It was just to create a healthy thread for the OP who has the ultimate power in the thread.
As the forum was then is not the same as it is now. We get to see more members with scam intentions and that option is like giving them a leverage to carry out there activities.
Although the intents of the self moderated topic option is good, If it can be looked into and some little changes made in some areas. Then it would be very much guided

I understand why someone might want to use a self moderated thread to stop trolls from harassing you. This will usually be one or two people and this would be clear to someone looking at the deletion counter. If I see that 30 posts from even 2-3 people were deleted, I would write this off as being harassed by a few trolls after doing a little research to confirm there are no scam accusations unresolved.

I would welcome your enlightenment if you explained why you believe a locked, self moderated thread would be a good way to handle a sales thread.

This has been discussed adnauseum. You aren't the first one to think this is just an oh so simple fix. It is not. Just because you personally don't have a valid use for locked and self moderated topics doesn't mean they should be removed. Its like saying well since I own a car we don't need sidewalks because I can drive everywhere, and fuck everyone who walks or rides a bike. I don't know if you noticed, but this place is full of trolls and the mods are not always snappy to take action (if they even care to). Self moderated and locked topics serve the purpose of allowing people to have simple sales threads uninterrupted by trolls and bored morons.

One common example is any time you list a gift card, even at cost, there are always 100 cunts demanding you sell it under cost because there are 500 people selling stolen gift cards and they think that is the going rate. This is just one example. These features were put there for a reason. You need to find another solution to these issues other than just stripping features one by one because you personally don't find them useful.

I proposed not very long ago that a good solution would be to not allow someone to actively try to sell or buy publicly when their thread is locked.

Someone could obviously still sell via PM, but they would be advertising that their trades are finished or on hold.

Here is an example below, I think also not allowing a brand new account these privileges would help.    The very basic scam which I presume works enough times, is he asks for payment first and delivers zero.

To me the main danger comes from the brand new account with no history, similar things happen on twitter with crypto addresses as part of it.   When I first signed upto the forum we posted in the newbies section and otherwise read only in the other parts of the forum, then after a while you learnt a bit and could post.  Now day 1 there is a burden of dealing with the immediate risk of accounts with no history to them.
A newbie should at least require an advocate to co sign a new thread ?

Already discussed "n" number of times and as I already stated my reason here, I don't see a reason why self-moderated option should be disabled. The problem of having newbies or scammers on this forum is not a new one and it has also been discussed a billion times how to stop/prevent it but none has been implemented or even "considered".


So another way of giving SOME users an advantage over the others like DT and most merited members? Why? Other members have no right to use the marketplace of bitcointalk and prevent spam?




Moderators don't remove posts that appear "harassing", "trolling", "personal attacks" and so on. Even doxxing is allow and only SPAM posts are deleted so no point of the @bold.


The scamming problem is a problem the DT members deal with. If you find anything fishy, report to them.


Nothing new has been said here at all.

I see no problem in having self-moderated threads anywhere on the forum but I agree with OP that locked threads should be removed from the marketplace. If a thread is locked immediately after the thread is started those threads should be removed since it is a big red flag.

A question to those who report a lot: What happens when you report a closed thread in the marketplace? How is your report treated?

Sound is like moderate thread by forum moderator. Who will be responsible if in case happen any scams from self moderated thread? if its whitelisted by forum moderators? Usually forum user will raise question why moderators approved this self moderated threads? But id its auto whitelisted based on rank then I don't think there will remain any space to raise question if anyone get scam. Because that time it will be a normal procedure.

So anyone below a certain rank is automatically a scammer.

Got it.



Sparta was real.

Not all of us here are males.

That film was no shit.

Not all of us are adults.

I'm in no way denying the benefits that people may find in using these threads, I just think it's a small number within the marketplace. I also am not expecting Mods to begin identifying and fighting scams. I decided to look at it this way, Are they a net positive in the Marketplace?

Yes the feedback system has the potential to deal with warnings being placed, that only happens if someone in that users trust list gets there first and tags that thread as they see fit. This is all sideways from my main point though. I  just don't see the overall benefit to these being an option in the Marketplace.

Is there really any reason that the Marketplace can't evolve to provide a better (imo)  overall user experience without imposing rules. It could be seen with the same argument as not being able to edit posts in Auctions.

Whilst they can be abused they're also great for keeping trolls and spammers out of your own thread. If people don't like the moderation here (or lack thereof then they can moderate their own threads how they see fit). Mods rarely get involved with trolling or users just being annoying (and that is obviously completely subjective) so users should moderate their own threads and make up their own rules if they want. It others don't like it then they can either not post in those threads or create their own for censor free discussion. You can even self-moderate that one if you want and mod it how you like. Sure, there are lots of scammers taking advantage of it also but to me a self-modded and locked thread is a huge alarm bell and now we even have warnings for outside users if they're marked so I think people should just use their own initiative and protect themselves rather than relying on the forum to protect against scammers.


Staff don't moderate scams so that's what the feedback system is for.

We’re not in Sparta though are we. We’re adult males living in the present day, not some fantasy film shit.

I don't see any harm a self moderated thread does I feel it should be encouraged across all baords including even meta. Lets observe the board in question (Marketplace boards and subboard) a self moderated thread helps to prevent off topic replies and sig spam reducing the workload on moderators. If you feel a self moderated thread will encourage scams then don't patronize goods or services started with a self moderated thread from a member you don't trust.

In as much as you want freedom of speech you still have to respect OP decisions. I do observe off topic replys on service thread that if a self moderated option was active it would had done the trick in deleting such irrelevant discussions. Self moderated thread helps prevent irrelevant discussions so it shouldn't be discouraged.

^^ agree with your take because, i took time to read through reputation and scam section of the forum, and discovered that, many questionable accounts on reputation and scams accusation are more of high rank member accounts than lower accounts, so, it will be unfair to the lower class. In the light of the requirement, that wouldn't be fair either as there are likely to be favoritism from MODS, which could possibly result to another struggle between forum members and MOD in question. Let it be disable irrespective of ranks, thanks.