Let's have a serious talk about high risks. - page 3.

CowboyKiller

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Quote from: HeRetiK on July 11, 2017, 03:16:49 AM

If you think the fundamentals of Bitcoins are strong enough, you won't worry about a small drop such as this. Corrections happen in every market, and with the higher volatility of Bitcoin the swings are stronger of course.

We are know the price of Cryptocurrency in few months ago are fake by bubble growth creating from March. After XRP rising up from @500 sat to @7500 sat and virus WannaCry use Bitcoin for extort, the crypto market has become a interesting place for investor anywhere on the world's, special people from HYIP, Ponzi, MLM ...
With that happens, it creating a wave growth and end in June! Now, all crypto in market are correction and falldown to real value

deisik

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Quote from: HeRetiK on July 16, 2017, 12:41:40 PM

Quote from: deisik on July 16, 2017, 12:29:05 PM

Quote from: European Central Bank on July 16, 2017, 10:03:27 AM

the bitcoin rise was fuelled by the alt bubble past a certain point. the alt bubble was the biggest and the emptiest yet. none of them got within a million miles of earning their valuations

I cannot support this view

And I guess I know what made you come to this erroneous conclusion (i.e. that "Bitcoin rise was fueled by the alt bubble"). I think you looked at the total market cap figures of altcoins and got tricked into thinking that there was something real behind this rise, i.e. real money. As to me, this was nowhere near the case. These market cap figures were bullshit, since the amount of fiat that it took to pump this seeming bubble was miserable (in Bitcoin terms). In other words, it is Bitcoin that got pumped with the bulk of money which made it rise, and only some dust ended up in altcoins. But since altcoins are dwarfs beside Bitcoin even this dust was sufficient to inflate the altocoin bubble and make it look enormous and intimidating

While I agree with you that the market cap figures are a bad metric, I still wouldn't dismiss the impact of alt coin speculation on the Bitcoin price. The volume of ETH, XRP, LTC and ETC show that there's indeed quite a lot of trading going on. Sure, a lot of the volume is driven by pumps and herd mentality, but it's still nothing to scoff at, especially for such a young market

Trading volumes are even less relevant to the matter discussed

They basically show how many times a certain number of coins changed hands at trading but this itself tells us nothing about the absolute amount of money that a coin received within a certain period of time. If you sold and bought 1 coin worth 1 dollar 1 million times, you would get 1 million dollar trading volume (actually, 2 million dollars), while in reality you have been trading just 1 dollar, and the same 1 dollar at that. To really see the amount of cash invested, we should know the number of coins being traded (i.e. not the volume of trades) and the change in price. For example, if there is 1M litecoins actively traded (the number is entirely random), and we want to raise the price from 20 dollars to 30 dollars per coin, then it would require us, say, 10M dollars to make this rise possible. This is a very rough estimate, of course (it would require more than that), but it shows the logic behind the correct reasoning

HeRetiK

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Quote from: deisik on July 16, 2017, 12:29:05 PM

Quote from: European Central Bank on July 16, 2017, 10:03:27 AM

the bitcoin rise was fuelled by the alt bubble past a certain point. the alt bubble was the biggest and the emptiest yet. none of them got within a million miles of earning their valuations

I cannot support this view

And I guess I know what made you come to this erroneous conclusion (i.e. that "Bitcoin rise was fueled by the alt bubble"). I think you looked at the total market cap figures of altcoins and got tricked into thinking that there was something real behind this rise, i.e. real money. As to me, this was nowhere near the case. These market cap figures were bullshit, since the amount of fiat that it took to pump this seeming bubble was miserable (in Bitcoin terms). In other words, it is Bitcoin that got pumped with the bulk of money which made it rise, and only some dust ended up in altcoins. But since altcoins are dwarfs beside Bitcoin even this dust was sufficient to inflate the altocoin bubble and make it look enormous and intimidating

While I agree with you that the market cap figures are a bad metric, I still wouldn't dismiss the impact of alt coin speculation on the Bitcoin price. The volume of ETH, XRP, LTC and ETC show that there's indeed quite a lot of trading going on. Sure, a lot of the volume is driven by pumps and herd mentality, but it's still nothing to scoff at, especially for such a young market.

deisik

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Quote from: European Central Bank on July 16, 2017, 10:03:27 AM

the bitcoin rise was fuelled by the alt bubble past a certain point. the alt bubble was the biggest and the emptiest yet. none of them got within a million miles of earning their valuations

I cannot support this view

And I guess I know what made you come to this erroneous conclusion (i.e. that "Bitcoin rise was fueled by the alt bubble"). I think you looked at the total market cap figures of altcoins and got tricked into thinking that there had been something real behind this rise, i.e. real money. As to me, this is nowhere near the case which is to say these huge market cap figures are all bullshit, since the amount of fiat that it took to pump this seeming bubble was in fact miserable (compared to the amount of cash that Bitcoin attracted). In other words, it is Bitcoin that got pumped with the bulk of money which made it rise, and only some dust ended up in altcoins. But since altcoins are dwarfs beside Bitcoin, even this dust was sufficient to inflate the altocoin bubble and make it look enormous and intimidating

European Central Bank

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the bitcoin rise was fuelled by the alt bubble past a certain point. the alt bubble was the biggest and the emptiest yet. none of them got within a million miles of earning their valuations.

this was inevitable and there might be a world more pain to come. it's barely getting warmed up unless some actual fundamentals are delivered which ain't gonna happen.

merchantofzeny

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Quote from: davis196 on July 11, 2017, 02:05:37 AM

Sometimes a price crash is good for the market.It clears all the high risk players who trade only
for profits and don`t care about the cryptocurrency adoption.
Most of the cryptocurrencies(including bitcoin) are so small and have so much free space to grow.
Sooner or later the market will crash and it will clear all the shitty altcoins and keep the coins that have stability and big communities who support them.

I guess that's a good way of looking at it sir. If it's money you can afford to lose anyway, why not buy bitcoins on the cheap. The profit-minded would leave and only those that have faith in the crypto will remain. Since it's on a fall, there would be no new entrants until it rises again. The people that trust bitcoin would then be able to afford the cheaper coins then, at least those left after the whales swallowed their shares.

CuriousInvestor

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If you zoom out, you will see that crypto market cap has sky rocketed way too much to not be correcting.

HeRetiK

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Quote from: foxbat on July 12, 2017, 07:54:48 AM

Quote from: HeRetiK on July 11, 2017, 03:16:49 AM

If you think the fundamentals of Bitcoins are strong enough, you won't worry about a small drop such as this. Corrections happen in every market, and with the higher volatility of Bitcoin the swings are stronger of course.

Every problem we discuss revolves around bitcoin and its potential. All the fluctuations and adjustments, they are causing losses to a lot of people, but conversely, many say it is good for the market.

It's only a loss if you sell. If someone gets spooked by Bitcoin dropping down to the price levels of 7 weeks ago, then they probably shouldn't have invested in the first place. The fundamentals haven't changed in the past few weeks, only the price has.

deisik

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Quote from: Hydrogen on July 11, 2017, 04:19:58 AM

As far as I can tell, ethereum is losing value & taking down all other crypto with it as it declines.

The price will rebound once the ethereum ICO scams are done. And after the ethereum bubble is done popping. That's my superficial surface analysis. I can't claim to have looked too deeply into this

I agree that Ethereum is a scammy coin if that is your point

Or, at least, the most hyped and pumped one if it is not. But I can't possibly agree that it is Ethereum which is driving the whole cryptomarket down. I'd rather say that it is Bitcoin's current controversies that contributed heavily to Ethereum ICO scams bursting a little bit prematurely. This situation had been expected long ago (I wrote about it in early June just like many other posters did), so, if anything, Bitcoin shouldn't be seriously affected by Ethereum failing and falling apart (just in case, Litecoin is doing quite well right now). And no, I don't think that people will learn anything since it was abundantly clear right from the start that all these ICO's are just poorly disguised scams

giveen

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Quote from: davis196 on July 11, 2017, 02:05:37 AM

Sometimes a price crash is good for the market.It clears all the high risk players who trade only
for profits and don`t care about the cryptocurrency adoption.
Most of the cryptocurrencies(including bitcoin) are so small and have so much free space to grow.
Sooner or later the market will crash and it will clear all the shitty altcoins and keep the coins that have stability and big communities who support them.

Exactly simply spreading awareness of bitcoin is useless most of the time and why do people fear when dips occur i trade a lot and with these dips it's easy profit for me no matter which coin i invest in. If you a bitcoin investor you should be more happy as bitcoin won't fall much and can easily gain because of higher demands.

foxbat

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Quote from: HeRetiK on July 11, 2017, 03:16:49 AM

If you think the fundamentals of Bitcoins are strong enough, you won't worry about a small drop such as this. Corrections happen in every market, and with the higher volatility of Bitcoin the swings are stronger of course.

Every problem we discuss revolves around bitcoin and its potential. All the fluctuations and adjustments, they are causing losses to a lot of people, but conversely, many say it is good for the market.

Mandoy

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Quote from: davis196 on July 11, 2017, 02:05:37 AM

Sometimes a price crash is good for the market.It clears all the high risk players who trade only
for profits and don`t care about the cryptocurrency adoption.
Most of the cryptocurrencies(including bitcoin) are so small and have so much free space to grow.
Sooner or later the market will crash and it will clear all the shitty altcoins and keep the coins that have stability and big communities who support them.

I agree with your statement that when a price crash occurs big holders are dumping their coins on the market. Though it maybe a disadvantage to those who buy at a higher value but it is an opportunity for buyers to get hold of coin in a lower value. It is also one way of distributing the coins to many holders instead of just one big whale. And so if we do not want to be a victim of the crash do not invest all your resources in one go but instead use only a percentage of that so when a crash or dump will occur you will have a chance to buy.

High risk is the partner of cryptocurrency the moment we join and invest we are placing one feet in losses and the other feet in profit. But just like the saying goes, the higher the risk the higher the profit, the higher the profit the higher the chances of losing.

ImHash

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Guys stop posting sh*t coin images no one cares for them except a few poor newbies trying to earn their daily $3 to stay alive.
By now you all should know as there are people spamming transactions and stalling the improvements, there are also some wolves in this business just for pump and dump, we need to rescue crypto from these worms before it's all eaten away, they are manipulating every thing with some serious cash to back them up. they dump 200K BTC in short bursts and when we panic and sell they will then buy even lower than what they sold their 200K coins. yes anyone with less than half a million bitcoins can cause serious dumps and panic many of you just idiots with your heads in your asses not seeing this.

talkbitcoin

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All I know is that I know nothing.

Quote from: MoneyBomber on July 10, 2017, 07:46:06 PM

All these coins are in the green. Except by the hour

look at the bigger picture not just a color on a number on a list then you understand if it is really a good high risk to invest in these coins or a dumb high risk.

i suggest looking at their charts instead, the charts tell you a lot of things. for example you can easily see a dead, no action, no volume, no price rise for years and a sudden rise in past month (hence the green number there). and that means it was a one time thing and won't happen again for a long time.

ecnalubma

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Stock market is not safe haven for everybody all commodities are vulnerable to crash even the most stable one on the line. Thats why investing in stock market serious and tough call. Decisions matters its very important and sometimes you need to execute thorough research before you engage in any investments like cryptos.

WoodySpoon

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Quote from: Hydrogen on July 11, 2017, 04:19:58 AM

As far as I can tell, ethereum is losing value & taking down all other crypto with it as it declines.

The price will rebound once the ethereum ICO scams are done. And after the ethereum bubble is done popping. That's my superficial surface analysis. I can't claim to have looked too deeply into this.

Ethereum was marketed as a glowing example of how "successful" a fork could be. Strange how it may come to represent the complete opposite. I hope people recognize and learn from this history however it turns out.

I agree with you to an extent, but why do you feel like ETH is driving the market down at the moment, would it not be safer to say it'd be instability caused by BTC with the fork approaching?

botany

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Quote from: MoneyBomber on July 10, 2017, 07:46:06 PM

Who thinks we're gonna bounce? Are people investing in 1sat coins in hopes of making extreme gains? Like all or nothing?
I am very on edge because I know there is still a way to make money.

All these coins are in the green. Except by the hour
There's got to be one that's a sure shot up. There's got to be some data scraping that can figure out which one its gonna be.

There are people who are gonna take risks and invest in penny stocks / coins all the time. The only difference between stock markets and crypto markets is that these people make up the fringe in stock markets; here they are mainstream.
Unless we have a huge crash that wipes out their capital, this is going to continue in crypto markets.

Hydrogen

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As far as I can tell, ethereum is losing value & taking down all other crypto with it as it declines.

The price will rebound once the ethereum ICO scams are done. And after the ethereum bubble is done popping. That's my superficial surface analysis. I can't claim to have looked too deeply into this.

Ethereum was marketed as a glowing example of how "successful" a fork could be. Strange how it may come to represent the complete opposite. I hope people recognize and learn from this history however it turns out.

pearlmen

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Quote from: MoneyBomber on July 10, 2017, 07:46:06 PM

We all saw this coming.
It's about that time.
I'll tell you what. We can keep our $100B market cap if each and every one of you goes out and sets up shop with bitcoin or helps an existing business integrate crypto in less than a month. Colds calls, door to door, vistaprint, hail marry.

I don't believe in that. I don't want to. I believe people are going to start taking high risks. The only thing that's close to the reciprocal of the crash is something at 1 sat with nowhere to go but up.

Who thinks we're gonna bounce? Are people investing in 1sat coins in hopes of making extreme gains? Like all or nothing?
I am very on edge because I know there is still a way to make money.

All these coins are in the green. Except by the hour

There's got to be one that's a sure shot up. There's got to be some data scraping that can figure out which one its gonna be.

In as much as everybody is not totally happy with the crash but I still agree with the poster that the crash is on the other way round a good thing for those who are bent on making sure they continue pumping the bubble and wait till when it burst so they can have their own joy. At the same time, it presents an opportunity by sending a strong message to those who the media have brainwashed to think this is a Ponzi scheme. I however, agree with you that more still needs to be done in sending the message put there.

HeRetiK

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If you think the fundamentals of Bitcoins are strong enough, you won't worry about a small drop such as this. Corrections happen in every market, and with the higher volatility of Bitcoin the swings are stronger of course.

Topic: Let's have a serious talk about high risks. - page 3. (Read 2337 times)