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Topic: Libertarianism sucks. - page 2. (Read 5091 times)

hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
September 03, 2012, 10:43:33 PM
#23
People do not like libertarianism because I can't use the state to enforce my environmental policy through violent coercion.

That's why don't like libertarianism!

better?

Putting words in my mouth?

Yeah, because I can't actually respond to the truth.

As I figured.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1016
Strength in numbers
September 03, 2012, 10:19:40 PM
#22
How would you use illegal drugs if no government outlawed drugs? Unpossible imo.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
September 03, 2012, 10:13:17 PM
#21
People do not like libertarianism because I can't use the state to enforce my environmental policy through violent coercion.

That's why don't like libertarianism!

better?

Nailed it.

Better?
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
September 03, 2012, 10:05:04 PM
#20
People do not like libertarianism because I can't use the state to enforce my environmental policy through violent coercion.

That's why don't like libertarianism!

better?

Don't be an idiot.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
September 03, 2012, 08:57:41 PM
#19
Well I tend to use the moniker Mutualist or simply "Anarchist" (without any adjectives) to describe my views.

My one grip with Libertarianism isn't really with the ideology itself but many of the followers of said ideology. You see I have a problem with what Roderick Long calls "Left-Right Conflation-ism" and Kevin Carson calls "Vulgar Libertarianism".

An example of this would be how some view modern day "Corporations" who buy political power. Those institutions are not legitimate. Their wealth was made by way of utilizing means not accessible to any of us. They also tend to be safe from Market competition due to regulations they've purchased. Simply chalking it off as "well they did the best they could under the current conditions" does not cut it.

Their wealth ought to be stripped from them, as we do with bureaucrats and others Statists, the moment Freed Markets takes shape. They are enemies of Liberty and Freed Markets.

I agree Corporations are in the same league as Governments. Same abuse of power when you get to the depths of it.

Sure, but only to an extent.  I can walk out of walmart without spending a dime.  Try "not spending" on sending other people's kids to school and paying those public teacher bureaucracies.  See how far that gets you and if you don't have men showing up at your house with guns taking your house from you because you "owe" them.

I don't see any walmart cops grabbing people off the sidewalks and dragging them into the store because they "owe" walmart for shelving and stocking all these products on behalf of the public.

Wal-mart is one of the lesser evils when it comes to corporatism. They act more like clouty market participants than anything.

I look more to Monsanto and BP who bribe their way to government benefits and bailouts.

For instance, Monsanto evades Puerto Rico's constitutional land limit by using several LLC names. They are looking for a monopoly on Puerto Rico agriculture.

Everybody else is forced to follow the rules.

Monsanto might retain some benefits by bribing the state (again, only possible when the state exists in the first place).

But their biggest fascist benefit is in patent law (which is immoral, in all cases, along with the entire concept of IP).  They can patent a planet, are waived from all consequences that their modified food might impose upon consumers, and if anyone DARES to take that and improve it or make it safer, they are sued into oblivion and/or locked into a cage.  It is the artificial monopoly that is the real killer, because the monopoly is where they shirk all accountability, and every natural mechanism of the market is beaten down to a pulp.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
September 03, 2012, 06:50:12 PM
#18
People do not like libertarianism because I can't use the state to enforce my environmental policy through violent coercion.

That's why I don't like libertarianism!

better?

Yeah, that sounds about right.
hero member
Activity: 527
Merit: 500
September 03, 2012, 06:46:18 PM
#17
People do not like libertarianism because I can't use the state to enforce my environmental policy through violent coercion.

That's why don't like libertarianism!

better?
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
September 03, 2012, 05:44:24 PM
#16
Well I tend to use the moniker Mutualist or simply "Anarchist" (without any adjectives) to describe my views.

My one grip with Libertarianism isn't really with the ideology itself but many of the followers of said ideology. You see I have a problem with what Roderick Long calls "Left-Right Conflation-ism" and Kevin Carson calls "Vulgar Libertarianism".

An example of this would be how some view modern day "Corporations" who buy political power. Those institutions are not legitimate. Their wealth was made by way of utilizing means not accessible to any of us. They also tend to be safe from Market competition due to regulations they've purchased. Simply chalking it off as "well they did the best they could under the current conditions" does not cut it.

Their wealth ought to be stripped from them, as we do with bureaucrats and others Statists, the moment Freed Markets takes shape. They are enemies of Liberty and Freed Markets.

I agree Corporations are in the same league as Governments. Same abuse of power when you get to the depths of it.

Sure, but only to an extent.  I can walk out of walmart without spending a dime.  Try "not spending" on sending other people's kids to school and paying those public teacher bureaucracies.  See how far that gets you and if you don't have men showing up at your house with guns taking your house from you because you "owe" them.

I don't see any walmart cops grabbing people off the sidewalks and dragging them into the store because they "owe" walmart for shelving and stocking all these products on behalf of the public.

Wal-mart is one of the lesser evils when it comes to corporatism. They act more like clouty market participants than anything.

I look more to Monsanto and BP who bribe their way to government benefits and bailouts.

For instance, Monsanto evades Puerto Rico's constitutional land limit by using several LLC names. They are looking for a monopoly on Puerto Rico agriculture.

Everybody else is forced to follow the rules.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
September 03, 2012, 05:37:27 PM
#15
Well I tend to use the moniker Mutualist or simply "Anarchist" (without any adjectives) to describe my views.

My one grip with Libertarianism isn't really with the ideology itself but many of the followers of said ideology. You see I have a problem with what Roderick Long calls "Left-Right Conflation-ism" and Kevin Carson calls "Vulgar Libertarianism".

An example of this would be how some view modern day "Corporations" who buy political power. Those institutions are not legitimate. Their wealth was made by way of utilizing means not accessible to any of us. They also tend to be safe from Market competition due to regulations they've purchased. Simply chalking it off as "well they did the best they could under the current conditions" does not cut it.

Their wealth ought to be stripped from them, as we do with bureaucrats and others Statists, the moment Freed Markets takes shape. They are enemies of Liberty and Freed Markets.

I agree Corporations are in the same league as Governments. Same abuse of power when you get to the depths of it.

Sure, but only to an extent.  I can walk out of walmart without spending a dime.  Try "not spending" on sending other people's kids to school and paying those public teacher bureaucracies.  See how far that gets you and if you don't have men showing up at your house with guns taking your house from you because you "owe" them.

I don't see any walmart cops grabbing people off the sidewalks and dragging them into the store because they "owe" walmart for shelving and stocking all these products on behalf of the public.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
September 03, 2012, 04:48:44 PM
#14
I agree Corporations are in the same league as Governments. Same abuse of power when you get to the depths of it.

They're the same thing these days. The only ones that think there's a difference are the average voters.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
September 03, 2012, 04:47:03 PM
#13
Well I tend to use the moniker Mutualist or simply "Anarchist" (without any adjectives) to describe my views.

My one grip with Libertarianism isn't really with the ideology itself but many of the followers of said ideology. You see I have a problem with what Roderick Long calls "Left-Right Conflation-ism" and Kevin Carson calls "Vulgar Libertarianism".

An example of this would be how some view modern day "Corporations" who buy political power. Those institutions are not legitimate. Their wealth was made by way of utilizing means not accessible to any of us. They also tend to be safe from Market competition due to regulations they've purchased. Simply chalking it off as "well they did the best they could under the current conditions" does not cut it.

Their wealth ought to be stripped from them, as we do with bureaucrats and others Statists, the moment Freed Markets takes shape. They are enemies of Liberty and Freed Markets.

I agree Corporations are in the same league as Governments. Same abuse of power when you get to the depths of it.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
September 03, 2012, 02:25:07 PM
#12
The state exists to serve me.

Yeah! I'm sick of choices. I want the state to take them away so the only decision I have to make is, "Coke or Pepsi?"
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
★YoBit.Net★ 350+ Coins Exchange & Dice
September 03, 2012, 02:15:47 PM
#11
Well I tend to use the moniker Mutualist or simply "Anarchist" (without any adjectives) to describe my views.

My one grip with Libertarianism isn't really with the ideology itself but many of the followers of said ideology. You see I have a problem with what Roderick Long calls "Left-Right Conflation-ism" and Kevin Carson calls "Vulgar Libertarianism".

An example of this would be how some view modern day "Corporations" who buy political power. Those institutions are not legitimate. Their wealth was made by way of utilizing means not accessible to any of us. They also tend to be safe from Market competition due to regulations they've purchased. Simply chalking it off as "well they did the best they could under the current conditions" does not cut it.

Their wealth ought to be stripped from them, as we do with bureaucrats and others Statists, the moment Freed Markets takes shape. They are enemies of Liberty and Freed Markets.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1010
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
September 03, 2012, 11:48:01 AM
#10
People do not like libertarianism because it makes their lives harder. It does not support the view that Americans are better and more deserving of a disproportionate share of the world's resources. It does not use the state to create benefits for a specific group of people. It does not shift the costs of now onto the future. It does not allow people to use the power of the state to stop unpopular ideas, criticism, or offensive material. It does not allow the majority to enforce morality through law.

It is not a fun way of life. Imagine living someplace where the state had no moral control over actions and behaviors that do not violate the rights of others? It would be total chaos. People could enter into legal relationships with those of the same sex or people that they are related to. People could use illegal drugs. they could sell organs. Maybe they would be saying things that you find offensive.

That would be a terrible place. The state exists to serve me. I am owed everything and no one should ever do anything that offends or inconveniences me.

Welcome back Atlas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I8BPDjUgKI
Good catch. I just dislike Libertarians because they write nonsense like this. I usually just ignore them. QED.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
September 03, 2012, 10:44:40 AM
#9
People do not like libertarianism because it makes their lives harder. It does not support the view that Americans are better and more deserving of a disproportionate share of the world's resources. It does not use the state to create benefits for a specific group of people. It does not shift the costs of now onto the future. It does not allow people to use the power of the state to stop unpopular ideas, criticism, or offensive material. It does not allow the majority to enforce morality through law.

It is not a fun way of life. Imagine living someplace where the state had no moral control over actions and behaviors that do not violate the rights of others? It would be total chaos. People could enter into legal relationships with those of the same sex or people that they are related to. People could use illegal drugs. they could sell organs. Maybe they would be saying things that you find offensive.

That would be a terrible place. The state exists to serve me. I am owed everything and no one should ever do anything that offends or inconveniences me.

That's not why I don't like libertarianism. Try again.
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: 1pirata
September 03, 2012, 08:13:28 AM
#8
People do not like libertarianism because it makes their lives harder. It does not support the view that Americans are better and more deserving of a disproportionate share of the world's resources. It does not use the state to create benefits for a specific group of people. It does not shift the costs of now onto the future. It does not allow people to use the power of the state to stop unpopular ideas, criticism, or offensive material. It does not allow the majority to enforce morality through law.

It is not a fun way of life. Imagine living someplace where the state had no moral control over actions and behaviors that do not violate the rights of others? It would be total chaos. People could enter into legal relationships with those of the same sex or people that they are related to. People could use illegal drugs. they could sell organs. Maybe they would be saying things that you find offensive.

That would be a terrible place. The state exists to serve me. I am owed everything and no one should ever do anything that offends or inconveniences me.

Welcome back Atlas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I8BPDjUgKI
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
September 03, 2012, 06:49:56 AM
#7
Libertarianism will actually work, yes. But even as a libertarian I really wonder sometimes if the anarcho-capitalists and self-described libertarians on this forum realize that with liberty does come responsibility. You can't fraud your way to success, folks. You've got to take the "responsibility" angle seriously, and be able to own up to your own actions.

+1 but some of us do realize that. Wink
donator
Activity: 1419
Merit: 1015
September 03, 2012, 04:56:32 AM
#6
Libertarianism will actually work, yes. But even as a libertarian I really wonder sometimes if the anarcho-capitalists and self-described libertarians on this forum realize that with liberty does come responsibility. You can't fraud your way to success, folks. You've got to take the "responsibility" angle seriously, and be able to own up to your own actions.
legendary
Activity: 4494
Merit: 3178
Vile Vixen and Miss Bitcointalk 2021-2023
September 03, 2012, 03:44:08 AM
#5
Yes it does, in many ways, but not for the reasons you detailed above.
Good job defeating that straw-man though. I'm sure it was hard work.
You're not familiar with Poe's Law, are you?
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
September 03, 2012, 03:17:37 AM
#4
Yes it does, in many ways, but not for the reasons you detailed above.
Good job defeating that straw-man though. I'm sure it was hard work.
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