Topic: Libertarianism Sucks - page 2. (Read 950 times)

As I said, sound good on paper, but in practice, it falls apart. These corporate oligarchs would sell their mother for an extra 1% profit.



At least from what I heard what is happening in the US, is that Republicans/Libertarians want to take away healthcare aid from the poor.

This would mean 5 year old kids dying of some illness that could have been prevented.

I also heard that many people use the emergency rooms in the US, because that is free, because they can't pay for pre-consultations.

Meanwhile the profits of greedy insurances is going up, totally ignoring how one of the biggest insurances went bankrupt in 2008 due to their shitty practices, almost destroying the world economy.

So the insurance companies are welfare whores, they get bailouts, free money ,and favorable legislation, meanwhile 5 year old kids are dying of ilnesses.

You are right. Sadly there aren't enough of them on this planet. When we all inhabit asteroids with our chosen societies with like minded people then it's time to give it whirl.

Libertarianism only works well with a noble and wise people who willingly follow the moral laws of Moses as found in Exodus and Deuteronomy.

You're forgetting the absolutely giant distinction between all libertarian societies pre-capitalism and the kind of libertarian society that you're advocating for now.

The distinction being that even though there was some level of property rights and personal property, these were people living in villages and tribes which didn't communicate with each other well, nor have to encounter the tribes on the other side of the country 24/7.

In a modern society, when anyone can talk to anyone else or go to anywhere else, it changes completely.  Because people think "no, I owned that land first!" and feel a sense of entitlement over the land.  That's why the concept of land ownership, and thus capitalism, has caused shitloads of wars and would continue to do so under "libertarianism".

Libertarianism is like almost every other credo. It sounds fantastic on paper. As soon as real humans get involved it turns into a fucking nightmare.

People are too selfish, tyrannical and weak minded to make something like true libertarianism work. We're better off with the heap of shit that many put up with at present.

Even though some of the reasoning makes sense on the surface, a libertarian society would be unspeakably depressing and disgusting in real practice.   

I strongly support libertarianism and yes, the market will regulate itself. The Indians managed to live without a government and its taxes for centuries and they thrived. There was no crime among them, no locked doors, no banks, and yet people contributed and got along with the rest of the tribe.
What are you actually against when it comes to libertarian ideals? Do you really like to be told what to do and then put in jail or beaten if you refuse? Do you really want the government to tell you if you can defend your property or not, what you can build on your land, and how much you should pay for it?
I want to live free, eat what I want, drink what I want, even if it's unhealthy, decide if I want social security or not. People should only pay for the things they're using, not be forced to work to sustain the needs of others.

Property doesn't have to be stolen to enter the free market. It can be donated or traded for.

Private property is one of the most fundamental things in life. It points at freedom of choice. Even in "generational slaves," freedom of choice regarding what to think, finds its way to the surface in the minds of the slaves. On the opposite extreme, libertarianism is practiced with gentle, loving kindness in voluntary giving.

Property has to be stolen at some point for it to enter the "free" market.  The only reason that you can freely buy property is because someone violently stole the land from native Americans.

While private property is sometimes a necessary practice, it's not the holy grail of freedom that suddenly makes everyone love each other.
Not if people are employed in the public sector, which they already are.  The public sector doesn't have business incentives, so it doesn't ignore the consequences of producing things as cheaply as possible for the consumer.
You could get through hundreds of people poisoning their foods in a private system before people stop using your service, and there would still be people who didn't know that you poisoned your food.  In the public sector, the place just gets shut down as soon as there's evidence of the activity.
It's free at the point of use.  The purpose of taxes is to give responsibility to those who earn more to support people who earn less.  It's not their fault that they get ill, so they need a safety net.
Bullshit.  Rich people also use roads and the public sector.  Everyone does.  Poorer people are not lazy either - companies have the incentive to make a cheap product and the consumer has the incentive to buy a cheap product, so they get labour as cheap as possible.  That means that there are still millions of slaves in the world, and that millions of people are forced into terrible working conditions.  It's lovely for you to think this way with your Western labour rights but outside of America libertarianism is barely supported by anyone.

At its core, libertarianism is simply the application of the non-aggression principle. This means "live and let live." It means freedom for all who uphold libertarianism.

However, when someone harms you or your property, libertarianism becomes a strong defense. After all, you can't uphold someone else in their libertarian freedom if you can't protect your own property.

A good defense is a capable offense. In practice, for libertarians, this is like the people of the USA who own tons of guns and ammo. They are prepared, but they are not aggressive. They are simply ready.

If the government of the land you live in doesn't uphold libertarian principles, then it is a slave-making government.

How are Libertarians taking away healthcare from people? The government doesn't make money, it receives money from taking taxes from people who work. The people who work are the ones paying for healthcare that other people get for free.

The people who get things for free, why don't they pay taxes or work? If you say it is unfair for them to not be provided for for doing nothing, then it is even more not fair for someones tax dollars to be used to give away free anything to people who aren't trying to work.

A social safety net is of course needed so don't get me wrong on what I am saying. There is only a certain amount of money to go around before everyone wanting free stuff cannot be sustained by it.

How to stave pollution? Private property. When the lake is owned by everybody, it's upkeep is the responsibility of nobody.

How to stave horrible food? I heard poisoning your food is a good business practice.

How to stave a banking crisis? A banking system rooted in private property ethic - no fractional reserve lending, no bailouts, no central banking.

How to stave long work hours? Capital, investment, productivity, deflation. All products of Capitalism.

Cheers

I think each person has a purpose of his own life. All my life pursuit of good life. There are bachelors, some people worship liberalism ... Depending on your choice. Like I choose bitcoin is the place to grow.

I was foolish enough to believe in Libertarianism, despite living in a poor country, I thought yeah maybe the free market can bring people out of poverty.
Maybe earning money and hiring many people, with little or no regulations, low taxes (which I still think are good), and business friendly practices the economy could get better.

Of course I ignored things like pollution, or when big corporations dump toxic chemicals in the river that cause decades of cancers in the future in people. Or when the food is not regulated and you get to eat poisonous GMO crap filled with antibiotics, and pesticide imported from a 3rd world country, yeah that kind of thing...

Do I also need to mention the 2008-2009 bank crisis, when unregulated banking system almost made the entire world collapse.

Or when you have workers working 16 hours a day in a sweatshop barely having anything to eat. Smells like the wonders of Capitalism.

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Don't get me wrong I am not a Communist, in fact I hate the Communists more than the Corporate Elite, after all their track record of murdering 350 million people in the past century can't be outcompeted.

But that doesn't mean that this unregulated Capitalism is good. It could cause just as many problems in the long run: poverty, health crisis, unemployment, low wages, and the list is long....

When I hear Libertarians trying to take away healthcare from people, it makes me angry. Yeah try being unemployed and without healthcare, you are good as dead.

Go live in the streets and scrap from dumpsters, that is what they want poor people to do. No healthcare is a death sentence, literally speaking. If you are unemployed and have no healthcare, you will die pretty soon of any kind of illness.

So after your 16 hour/day sweatshop job destroyed your health, they want to take away your healthcare too, so that you can just roll over and die.

It makes me angry to hear such foolish things. So Libertarianism sucks, I realized this the hard way when I became unemployed. Yes it looks good on paper, but try being unemployed, nobody will give a fuck about you afterwards.