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Topic: Lightning Network vs Bitcoin cash (Read 1430 times)

sr. member
Activity: 658
Merit: 282
January 10, 2018, 05:38:00 PM
... Narratives can change overnight to fit the issues of the day.

I disagree with that notion.

Let´s take the example of Bitcoin. The value of a Bitcoin would crater if somehow the narrative
of a distributed, immutable ledger with a 21 million Bitcoin hard cap was changed to something different.

This happened with several altcoins. They had a certain use case and after seeing the success
of the privacy-focused coins like Monero or ZCash they suddenly pivoted their narrative to
also fit in this category.

I concede that it may be a feature of these open-source projects that they can change the direction
if new promising technologies emerge, but keeping an existing narrative also has its advantages.

hv_
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale
January 08, 2018, 03:50:36 AM
Here's some techy stuff about LN

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.27684676
full member
Activity: 420
Merit: 171
January 07, 2018, 09:44:28 PM
Internet has so many lies reddit have articles about crypto currency that is not reliable and trustworthy, (not all). every lesson done is applied when it is experienced you don't have to outline the capabilities of each coin especially in it's security what you have to do is to explore and try. There are so many statements tackled about your TOPIC above my post, so all in all it's a matter of reading and decision.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
January 07, 2018, 06:29:05 PM
...

But such features could be found in many implementations other than LN.

And these could be layered on top of many coins - for example, Bitcoin Cash....not just Bitcoin.


I thought SegWit capability was a mandatory requirement for the Lightning Network?
Bitcoin Cash has not activated SegWit. Therefore I don´t think the Lightning Network
would be able to function on top of Bitcoin Cash.

Why would they deploy a solution like the LN anyway? Their whole narrative is based around
how on-chain scaling is the superior solution to scaling Bitcoin. If they would introduce a 2nd layer scaling solution
they would lose their main value proposition.

LN only requires tx malleability fixes from segwit. There are other ways to skin that particular cat.

As regards BCH deploying an LN like solution - why not? As long as users are given the choice to continue to use Layer1 as before, then L2 solutions can be developed that offer real value propositions to users and their intended use cases.

What BCH wont do is force the issue by making the L1 solution unusable.
Right. I can't buy arguments like "Their whole narrative is ..." or "they would lose their main value proposition."

Things are moving fast and will be moving faster (except transactions trying to get into the blockchain). Narratives can change overnight to fit the issues of the day.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista
January 07, 2018, 02:24:36 PM
...

But such features could be found in many implementations other than LN.

And these could be layered on top of many coins - for example, Bitcoin Cash....not just Bitcoin.


I thought SegWit capability was a mandatory requirement for the Lightning Network?
Bitcoin Cash has not activated SegWit. Therefore I don´t think the Lightning Network
would be able to function on top of Bitcoin Cash.

Why would they deploy a solution like the LN anyway? Their whole narrative is based around
how on-chain scaling is the superior solution to scaling Bitcoin. If they would introduce a 2nd layer scaling solution
they would lose their main value proposition.

LN only requires tx malleability fixes from segwit. There are other ways to skin that particular cat.

As regards BCH deploying an LN like solution - why not? As long as users are given the choice to continue to use Layer1 as before, then L2 solutions can be developed that offer real value propositions to users and their intended use cases.

What BCH wont do is force the issue by making the L1 solution unusable.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
January 04, 2018, 04:06:34 PM
...

But such features could be found in many implementations other than LN.

And these could be layered on top of many coins - for example, Bitcoin Cash....not just Bitcoin.


I thought SegWit capability was a mandatory requirement for the Lightning Network?
Bitcoin Cash has not activated SegWit. Therefore I don´t think the Lightning Network
would be able to function on top of Bitcoin Cash.

Why would they deploy a solution like the LN anyway? Their whole narrative is based around
how on-chain scaling is the superior solution to scaling Bitcoin. If they would introduce a 2nd layer scaling solution
they would lose their main value proposition.

I am only pointing out that "for many blockchain based crypto currencies" additional layers may be added, such as "mesh network transaction systems of the LN variety."

Thus it is INCORRECT to debate merits of LN vs BCH. It does not matter that people are trying to impress you that you should debate it that way, or that it is a valid comparison. You might consider those to be political motivations and arguments. They are not valid arguments from computer science or database theory.

sr. member
Activity: 658
Merit: 282
January 04, 2018, 03:59:21 PM
...

But such features could be found in many implementations other than LN.

And these could be layered on top of many coins - for example, Bitcoin Cash....not just Bitcoin.


I thought SegWit capability was a mandatory requirement for the Lightning Network?
Bitcoin Cash has not activated SegWit. Therefore I don´t think the Lightning Network
would be able to function on top of Bitcoin Cash.

Why would they deploy a solution like the LN anyway? Their whole narrative is based around
how on-chain scaling is the superior solution to scaling Bitcoin. If they would introduce a 2nd layer scaling solution
they would lose their main value proposition.
jr. member
Activity: 150
Merit: 3
January 04, 2018, 11:17:43 AM
#99
I'm affraid Bitcoin is becoming a patched zombie and it might be time to move most of the coins to some other currency like Monero or PIVX.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
January 04, 2018, 10:30:14 AM
#98
With the lightning network transaction, times should be similar to bitcoin. I don't think so how it'll perform with more and more transactions though.

https://lightning.network

Instant Payments. Lightning-fast blockchain payments without worrying about block confirmation times. Security is enforced by blockchain smart-contracts without creating a on-blockchain transaction for individual payments. Payment speed measured in milliseconds to seconds.

Scalability. Capable of millions to billions of transactions per second across the network. Capacity blows away legacy payment rails by many orders of magnitude. Attaching payment per action/click is now possible without custodians.

Low Cost. By transacting and settling off-blockchain, the Lightning Network allows for exceptionally low fees, which allows for emerging use cases such as instant micropayments.

Cross Blockchains. Cross-chain atomic swaps can occur off-chain instantly with heterogeneous blockchain consensus rules. So long as the chains can support the same cryptographic hash function, it is possible to make transactions across blockchains without trust in 3rd party custodians.

It's worth noting that these features are features of a category of mesh network style payment schemes. OF WHICH LN is the one we know about and expect to be implemented.

But such features could be found in many implementations other than LN.

And these could be layered on top of many coins - for example, Bitcoin Cash....not just Bitcoin.
full member
Activity: 312
Merit: 111
January 04, 2018, 06:09:28 AM
#97
With the lightning network transaction, times should be similar to bitcoin. I don't think so how it'll perform with more and more transactions though.

https://lightning.network

Instant Payments. Lightning-fast blockchain payments without worrying about block confirmation times. Security is enforced by blockchain smart-contracts without creating a on-blockchain transaction for individual payments. Payment speed measured in milliseconds to seconds.

Scalability. Capable of millions to billions of transactions per second across the network. Capacity blows away legacy payment rails by many orders of magnitude. Attaching payment per action/click is now possible without custodians.

Low Cost. By transacting and settling off-blockchain, the Lightning Network allows for exceptionally low fees, which allows for emerging use cases such as instant micropayments.

Cross Blockchains. Cross-chain atomic swaps can occur off-chain instantly with heterogeneous blockchain consensus rules. So long as the chains can support the same cryptographic hash function, it is possible to make transactions across blockchains without trust in 3rd party custodians.
newbie
Activity: 52
Merit: 0
January 04, 2018, 06:05:30 AM
#96
With the lightning network transaction, times should be similar to bitcoin. I don't think so how it'll perform with more and more transactions though.
full member
Activity: 312
Merit: 111
January 02, 2018, 01:00:37 PM
#95
Sorry if I insult you, I was truly under impression that it was another ripple troll.

About LN network:
 Not really... Maybe on paper but not in a practical way.
Most of the small buying coffee transactions don't need big nodes having big btc wallets, we have now also big mining farms and also small home miners and it works in harmony to a certain level.

Second thing is and please correct me if I am wrong, you still have the option to chose, If I want to send some real amount I can choose the main chain and nobody can block or censor my transaction.

Keyword is the option that you can choosing what you want and nobody can block your transaction. Its open market and open market will always find his way

jr. member
Activity: 154
Merit: 8
SODL
January 02, 2018, 12:49:10 PM
#94
And why is al this bullshit comments always from new accounts? Ripple? Seriously? I think that your right about smoking weed, you should stop smoking it.

Care to elaborate? Or prove me wrong?

No, you are a waste of time as you try to compare bank coin to bitcoin.

A) you are a troll
Or
B) you are missing some serious IQ
Or
C) you try just make some advertisements for your bank coin and dont bother what arguments you use.

As I say before always same bullshits from some newly created accounts.

Thanks for all the options, but if you don't have anything actually relevant to add to the discussion and can only post insults, then you might want to move to some other thread.

There is nothing wrong with discussing bitcoin anf bitcoin cash as both camp have some good arguments. You dare to mention and  to compare it to centralized bank ripple, its hilarious Wink

But its fine, let see wat this trash coin is;

There will be 100 billion xrp and 60 billion is in de hand of ripple / bank candidates,  If this isn't a deal breaker for you, you should stay at your local bank and font bother cryptocurrency.

Ay any time rippel can cancel and seize my money, sounds familiar? B  A  N  K

I dare anyone to seize my bitcoin! YOU CANT. LOL. ITS MINE.

For love of brain, they work with the banks and you don't like it when people call it a bank coin Wink any time that its you against the bank you are the one that will get screwed. Or do you truly think banks will invest in something that benefit you and harm the bank. Lol its hilarious Wink  



Discusion about bitcoin and bitcoin cash is what this topic is about, about your ripple bank coin just use goggle to find more what a scam this ripple is. Dont waste people's time and hijack this topic to selll bullshit to newbies about your ripple bank coin



My whole point, which you somehow still fail to see, is that bitcoin + lightning network can only succeed as a banking solution too. For the reasons I laid out before, LN can not work as a decentralized solution. That's why you need to compare it to a banking solution like Ripple, not to bitcoin cash, that's really a whole different world, which actually can and does function decentralized.

Either way, I'm not interested in your opinion about Ripple. I'm interested in your vision of how LN could even work decentralized because it seems you still seem to think that. Then again, this might not be the right thread, I'm going to open one especially for this subject.

*EDIT* done: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2679337.new#new

So this topic can be used for comparison between BCH and BTC, although still this is a very important aspect in that discussion too.
full member
Activity: 312
Merit: 111
January 02, 2018, 12:07:39 PM
#93
And why is al this bullshit comments always from new accounts? Ripple? Seriously? I think that your right about smoking weed, you should stop smoking it.

Care to elaborate? Or prove me wrong?

No, you are a waste of time as you try to compare bank coin to bitcoin.

A) you are a troll
Or
B) you are missing some serious IQ
Or
C) you try just make some advertisements for your bank coin and dont bother what arguments you use.

As I say before always same bullshits from some newly created accounts.

Thanks for all the options, but if you don't have anything actually relevant to add to the discussion and can only post insults, then you might want to move to some other thread.

There is nothing wrong with discussing bitcoin anf bitcoin cash as both camp have some good arguments. You dare to mention and  to compare it to centralized bank ripple, its hilarious Wink

But its fine, let see wat this trash coin is;

There will be 100 billion xrp and 60 billion is in de hand of ripple / bank candidates,  If this isn't a deal breaker for you, you should stay at your local bank and font bother cryptocurrency.

Ay any time rippel can cancel and seize my money, sounds familiar? B  A  N  K

I dare anyone to seize my bitcoin! YOU CANT. LOL. ITS MINE.

For love of brain, they work with the banks and you don't like it when people call it a bank coin Wink any time that its you against the bank you are the one that will get screwed. Or do you truly think banks will invest in something that benefit you and harm the bank. Lol its hilarious Wink 



Discusion about bitcoin and bitcoin cash is what this topic is about, about your ripple bank coin just use goggle to find more what a scam this ripple is. Dont waste people's time and hijack this topic to selll bullshit to newbies about your ripple bank coin




jr. member
Activity: 154
Merit: 8
SODL
January 02, 2018, 09:47:30 AM
#92
And why is al this bullshit comments always from new accounts? Ripple? Seriously? I think that your right about smoking weed, you should stop smoking it.

Care to elaborate? Or prove me wrong?

No, you are a waste of time as you try to compare bank coin to bitcoin.

A) you are a troll
Or
B) you are missing some serious IQ
Or
C) you try just make some advertisements for your bank coin and dont bother what arguments you use.

As I say before always same bullshits from some newly created accounts.

Thanks for all the options, but if you don't have anything actually relevant to add to the discussion and can only post insults, then you might want to move to some other thread.
full member
Activity: 312
Merit: 111
January 02, 2018, 09:46:14 AM
#91
And why is al this bullshit comments always from new accounts? Ripple? Seriously? I think that your right about smoking weed, you should stop smoking it.

Care to elaborate? Or prove me wrong?

No, you are a waste of time as you try to compare bank coin to bitcoin.

A) you are a troll
Or
B) you are missing some serious IQ
Or
C) you try just make some advertisements for your bank coin and dont bother what arguments you use.

As I say before always same bullshits from some newly created accounts.
jr. member
Activity: 154
Merit: 8
SODL
January 02, 2018, 09:29:15 AM
#90
Lightning network will always be one step ahead of the curve than Bcash. People like Roger and his army of shills will call it centralized not knowing the actual network topology behind LN.

Aha, so I must misunderstand something, great, I'm always eager to learn. So how do you imagine that I send a $2000 payment over 30 hops where a guy with only $100 freely available in his account is in the middle ? Or another guy in my route just bought something himself and doesn't even have any money freely available at all ? LN at its core is just a 'chain of lenders' and most people are not really suited as lenders cause, well, they just don't have any money to lend. But I clearly must misunderstand something so I hope you can enlighten me and explain how LN is going to be a DECENTRALIZED success, a network where the little guy is going to lend the big guy tons of money to process his transaction!

sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
January 02, 2018, 09:23:21 AM
#89
Lightning network will always be one step ahead of the curve than Bcash. People like Roger and his army of shills will call it centralized not knowing the actual network topology behind LN.

On one hand, since LN is at its early adoption stage, not everyone realizes the true power it can provide in the long rung. Increasing block size doesn't always solve the scalability problem. Bcash will eventually face problems when large 20MB blocks will be implemented. Nobody except big corporate parties will only run full nodes of bcash at that time. Isn't that centralized, huh? Roll Eyes
jr. member
Activity: 154
Merit: 8
SODL
January 02, 2018, 09:18:01 AM
#88
And why is al this bullshit comments always from new accounts? Ripple? Seriously? I think that your right about smoking weed, you should stop smoking it.

Care to elaborate? Or prove me wrong?
full member
Activity: 312
Merit: 111
January 02, 2018, 09:15:56 AM
#87
Lightning nodes are a healthy way to solve centralization issues




How so? Quite the contrary in my opinion, LN equals centralization, it's the only way this can even work. Do you really imagine a world where somebody has 30 hops to another person and the amount of money that can be sent over those 30 hops is  determined by the guy with the lowest amount of money AVAILABLE, for YOUR transaction, in his payment channel ? Come on that's ridiculous! In fact it's one of the most dumbest idea's I've ever even heard, the guy who invented LN must be quite disconnected from reality, smoking too much weed, only some crazy hippy with a distorted world view could come up with something like this.

Reality check: the ONLY way this can even work is if banks will solve that problem and start big nodes. Then the size of your account (behind the scenes this would then be called "payment channel") determines the amount of money you can send, just like it does now in traditional banking.

In fact I opened a topic LN vs Ripple, it got deleted not sure why, but I really wonder what the advantage of bitcoin + LN will be over Ripple and the current banking system. In both scenario's it will be all about banks using block chain infrastructure to facilitate their own banking process. Difference though is that banks are already experimenting with Ripple, while LN hasn't even been released yet, so I figure my self Ripple has a much bigger chance of surviving.


And why is al this bullshit comments always from new accounts? Ripple? Seriously? I think that your right about smoking weed, you should stop smoking it.
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