LIGHTNING NETWORK - what is happening, dead, stagnant? - page 2.

BrewMaster

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Quote from: rdbase on May 05, 2020, 09:26:10 AM

So it really is up to the sender which one they cherish more: Having a faster transaction or saving on the those fees. Undecided

these two aren't mutually exclusive. in fact we can't have one without the other. for example if the on chain transaction fees were very high then nobody would even be able to transfer their funds to and from their lightning network channels to want to have fast/cheap(er) transactions.

RapTarX

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Quote from: MicroGuy on May 04, 2020, 11:41:04 PM

Miners get fees for Txs that occur on the main blockchain. If those transactions occur on L2 networks, they no longer get those fees.

Feel free to ask any follow up questions.

Although it's a very long debate and I doubt we will get a conclusion, I guess LN will be a good thing for the bitcoin future acceptance over the world. However, there's an ongoing discussion on your claim and you can check and join here- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-lightning-network-faq-5158920

Quote from: rdbase on May 05, 2020, 09:26:10 AM

So it really is up to the sender which one they cherish more: Having a faster transaction or saving on the those fees. Undecided

Sometimes, it depends on the receiver too, for a lower fee, it won't be confirmed within hours which may not be accepted by the receivers.

rdbase

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Quote from: Little Mouse on May 05, 2020, 12:47:34 AM

Quote from: MicroGuy on May 04, 2020, 11:41:04 PM

Miners get fees for Txs that occur on the main blockchain. If those transactions occur on L2 networks, they no longer get those fees.

Are we able to confirm all the tx with the limit of 1 MB block size? For getting confirmed on next block, sometimes the fee increased to $10 even, is not it too high? On chain tx requires longer time and higher fee while LN gives instant confirmation with lower fee.

It is the life long debate: Faster transaction times vs. Cost of sending those transactions.
Fiat money transmitters had this tug a war and the cost of providing a faster way of doing it won out. Thats why it costs $100 to send $1500 overseas using western union.
Now its come into play with bitcoin and whether to use the lightning network.
The fee to send only $100 worth in bitcoin increased from $0.26 to $2.60 in but a week.

So it really is up to the sender which one they cherish more: Having a faster transaction or saving on the those fees. Undecided

Pffrt

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Quote from: MicroGuy on May 04, 2020, 11:41:04 PM

Miners get fees for Txs that occur on the main blockchain. If those transactions occur on L2 networks, they no longer get those fees.

Feel free to ask any follow up questions.

Bitcoin either needs a fork or it needs off chain method like Lightning Network to get accepted mass. Because of the nature of bitcoin chain and uts fee structure, do you think small tx will be happened through bitcoin network? Who would be interested to pay bill of $5 with a fee of another $5, I don't think anyone would be interested to do that anytime.
While it's true that there will be an affect on on-chain tx, it may decrease a little but LN still needs onchain tx. So, I don't think that will be an issue.

ggbtctalk000

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Quote from: davis196 on May 05, 2020, 12:23:48 AM

Quote from: ggbtctalk000 on May 02, 2020, 02:56:20 AM

I looked at statistics, the usage went up around last half 2019 then tapered off. looks like not that terrribly popular although not died.
IT seems stagnated. Are there benefits starting to weigh in?
I wonder if major wallets are supporting or starting to support LN?

LN is definitely not stagnant or dying,but it's definitely not growing rapidly.BTC transactions on the chain are fast enough,so there's no need to such offchain solutions like LN right now.I don't see any major benefits of using the Lightning Network right now.Maybe when the Bitcoin Core blockchain gets stuck again and the overall transaction fees and confirmation time increases,many BTC users might start using LN for a while.
However,I don't believe that the die hard Bitcoin Core fans will ever adopt LN.

i would consider myself diehard bitcoin core fan due to extensive studies I made in the past, but I am for LN, if not for LN, how are you going to solve the 7 transaction / second problem?

mk4

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Development and adoption is still slowly in an upward trend. It's just that lightning's adoption isn't growing as much as people want to, as it's pretty evident that people in the cryptocurrency space are a bit too short-term focused.

And to add to that, a lot of crypto people are stuck at old narratives, thinking that there's nothing happening to LN. I mean, some crypto people that likes shilling shitcoins even think transaction fees are still in the $30-$50 range like what we had in the peak of 2017.

Wind_FURY

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I believe, for higher rate of adoption, Lightning wallets/node developers should also implement what BlueWallet has done. It's custodial ONLY FOR Lightning, which you can use after install.

mocacinno

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About electrum: HCP compiled version 4 of electrum for windows (alpha software), here's a link where you can read about it, including a link to the repo i created for him:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54134180

I trust HCP, i've seen him handle other people's funds without any issues. That being said, i wouldn't run alpha software on the main net, but this compiled version should be ok on the testnet. If you don't trust HCP, you can always use sandboxie to run version 4.0.0.a on the testnet in a sandbox if you want to try it out

Little Mouse

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Quote from: MicroGuy on May 04, 2020, 11:41:04 PM

Miners get fees for Txs that occur on the main blockchain. If those transactions occur on L2 networks, they no longer get those fees.

Are we able to confirm all the tx with the limit of 1 MB block size? For getting confirmed on next block, sometimes the fee increased to $10 even, is not it too high? On chain tx requires longer time and higher fee while LN gives instant confirmation with lower fee.

Kakmakr

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The majority of the world is in lockdown at the moment, so I think the "word of mouth" with direct interaction of people might slow down a little. Yes, people still communicate via Social media and Apps like WhatsApp, but it is just not the same.

The lockdown will also have a positive impact on the development side, because there are a lot less distraction for developers and they can spend more time working on improvements for the Lightning Network. Wink

Also, many companies and small businesses are closed now, so you would expect that decisions like this might be put on the back burner for now. Sad

davis196

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Quote from: ggbtctalk000 on May 02, 2020, 02:56:20 AM

I looked at statistics, the usage went up around last half 2019 then tapered off. looks like not that terrribly popular although not died.
IT seems stagnated. Are there benefits starting to weigh in?
I wonder if major wallets are supporting or starting to support LN?

LN is definitely not stagnant or dying,but it's definitely not growing rapidly.BTC transactions on the chain are fast enough,so there's no need to such offchain solutions like LN right now.I don't see any major benefits of using the Lightning Network right now.Maybe when the Bitcoin Core blockchain gets stuck again and the overall transaction fees and confirmation time increases,many BTC users might start using LN for a while.
However,I don't believe that the die hard Bitcoin Core fans will ever adopt LN.

MicroGuy

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Quote from: ggbtctalk000 on May 04, 2020, 11:39:33 PM

Quote from: MicroGuy on May 04, 2020, 10:57:12 PM

Quote from: Pffrt on May 04, 2020, 07:51:57 AM

Most people yet don't know what Lightning Network is till now. Couple of days ago, I had started a discussion topic on one of our local facebook group on Lightning Network. Almost 90% of the people seems to be never heard about Lightning Network while some other who have heard about Lightning Network but don't have any idea what it is. Without implementation in common wallets like Electrum, LN will not be known to the public. Once Electrum implement it, things will be different.

Lightning is an L2 network that exposes node operators to regulatory oversight and robs Tx fees from Bitcoin miners.

L2 is a key word if one can not memorize or trouble understanding the LN. Robbing tx fees is something I am hearing first time. Any source on technical background on this?

Miners get fees for Txs that occur on the main blockchain. If those transactions occur on L2 networks, they no longer get those fees.

Feel free to ask any follow up questions.

ggbtctalk000

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Quote from: MicroGuy on May 04, 2020, 10:57:12 PM

Quote from: Pffrt on May 04, 2020, 07:51:57 AM

Most people yet don't know what Lightning Network is till now. Couple of days ago, I had started a discussion topic on one of our local facebook group on Lightning Network. Almost 90% of the people seems to be never heard about Lightning Network while some other who have heard about Lightning Network but don't have any idea what it is. Without implementation in common wallets like Electrum, LN will not be known to the public. Once Electrum implement it, things will be different.

Lightning is an L2 network that exposes node operators to regulatory oversight and robs Tx fees from Bitcoin miners.

L2 is a key word if one can not memorize or trouble understanding the LN. Robbing tx fees is something I am hearing first time. Any source on technical background on this?

MicroGuy

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Quote from: Pffrt on May 04, 2020, 07:51:57 AM

Most people yet don't know what Lightning Network is till now. Couple of days ago, I had started a discussion topic on one of our local facebook group on Lightning Network. Almost 90% of the people seems to be never heard about Lightning Network while some other who have heard about Lightning Network but don't have any idea what it is. Without implementation in common wallets like Electrum, LN will not be known to the public. Once Electrum implement it, things will be different.

Lightning is an L2 network that exposes node operators to regulatory oversight and robs Tx fees from Bitcoin miners.

Yaunfitda

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Quote from: ggbtctalk000 on May 04, 2020, 01:47:28 PM

Quote from: Pffrt on May 04, 2020, 07:51:57 AM

Most people yet don't know what Lightning Network is till now. Couple of days ago, I had started a discussion topic on one of our local facebook group on Lightning Network. Almost 90% of the people seems to be never heard about Lightning Network while some other who have heard about Lightning Network but don't have any idea what it is. Without implementation in common wallets like Electrum, LN will not be known to the public. Once Electrum implement it, things will be different.

someone above said electrum did implement?

It is not yet implement, it is still under development.

Presentation link: https://www.electrum.org/talks/lightning/presentation.html#slide1
Youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D83IpdiF-U

But as @hugeblack pointed out, once well known wallet like Electrum supports LN, growth will be inevitable.

ggbtctalk000

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Quote from: Pffrt on May 04, 2020, 07:51:57 AM

Most people yet don't know what Lightning Network is till now. Couple of days ago, I had started a discussion topic on one of our local facebook group on Lightning Network. Almost 90% of the people seems to be never heard about Lightning Network while some other who have heard about Lightning Network but don't have any idea what it is. Without implementation in common wallets like Electrum, LN will not be known to the public. Once Electrum implement it, things will be different.

someone above said electrum did implement?

Pffrt

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Most people yet don't know what Lightning Network is till now. Couple of days ago, I had started a discussion topic on one of our local facebook group on Lightning Network. Almost 90% of the people seems to be never heard about Lightning Network while some other who have heard about Lightning Network but don't have any idea what it is. Without implementation in common wallets like Electrum, LN will not be known to the public. Once Electrum implement it, things will be different.

hugeblack

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As for the adoption, it will be gradual. Once you start the major platforms and the famous wallets that are known to be implemented, you will find that people have taken care of it and started using it.
It's similar to segwit, there are still a lot of lazy developers who haven't yet updated their code.

Quote from: darosior on May 02, 2020, 03:52:40 AM

Electrum

Many things will change if Electrum launches the version that supports the Lightning Network.
I don’t know how long you will wait, but it will be amazing.

AlexPCS

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Quote from: Rath_ on May 02, 2020, 01:57:00 PM

Quote from: AlexPCS on May 02, 2020, 10:38:04 AM

Nothing breakthrough lately [...]

Oh, come on. Multipart payments, funding (multiple) channels (at once) from external wallets which support PSBT, payments without an invoice are not breakthrough enough?

Yeah, you are totally right of course ) With regards to "breakthrough" I was referring more to adoption - like a country which gave up SWIFT for Lightning - that would be a real breakthrough, I guess

Rath_

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Quote from: AlexPCS on May 02, 2020, 10:38:04 AM

Nothing breakthrough lately [...]

Oh, come on. Multipart payments, funding (multiple) channels (at once) from external wallets which support PSBT, payments without an invoice are not breakthrough enough?

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