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Topic: Links in Threads and Newbies (Read 290 times)

legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6981
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September 27, 2024, 09:11:35 AM
#26
Actually there are lots of request to do the same like what you said but still nothing was done.
Let me quote this reply of @dzungmobile from the same topic/issue raise for newbie accounts posting links just few months ago.


Yep, it doesn't matter much how much the community talks about a suggestion like OP's (which I think is a good one, even if Newbies/Jr. Members would inevitably find a way around any new rule); it matters what Theymos thinks about it--and that's true of everything that's brought up as far as forum changes, not just those related to lower-ranked members.  Regarding the latter, I don't think he's apt to restrict them any more than they already are.

OP, I see your one example, but my question is:  is this a long-standing problem?  I don't visit certain sections, so I might be completely ignorant if there's a trend of newcomers misusing links.  I haven't noticed it in sections like Meta, Economics, and a few others.
hero member
Activity: 1442
Merit: 775
September 25, 2024, 07:26:59 AM
#25
I think theymos also said that there will be no new jails and restrictions for newbies.
Newbie jails were applied, then some jails were removed and theymos said, no more newbie jails.
Newbie restrictions (Please discuss forum policy here.)
Newbie restrictions
End of newbie restrictions; ban changes

theymos wants to give us as most freedom as possible and more jails for newbies breaks his vision on freedom.
Right, I don't care about making money from the forum personally. (I've actually thought about getting rid of the forum ads, since it's often a big headache and the forum has enough reserves for a long time, but operating at a significant loss while there's money basically just sitting on the table feels wrong, even if the level of loss is sustainable for quite a while.)

The things on the forum which encourage spam are allowed mainly because it's part of the forum's mission to be as free as possible. Eg. banning bounties would undoubtedly reduce spam, but that'd be destroying an entire economy/population/culture which has been able to develop due to the forum's freedom. I am willing to take this sort of action, but only as an absolute last resort. It's always preferable to handle these problems by reshaping the environment to make them non-problems, rather than removing some freedom.

It's wonderful when someone is able to constructively do something on the forum instead of continuing with whatever they were expected to do under the status quo. Enabling that sort of thing is exactly why Bitcoin and this forum were created. Though bitcointalk.org is not a worldwide welfare organization, and people are not entitled to make money.

Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

The low signal-to-noise is a real issue which seriously annoys me and is often on my mind. But as you mention, fixing it non-destructively is difficult.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
September 25, 2024, 06:36:10 AM
#24
I suggest that users below the Junior Member rank should not be allowed to post links on the forum.
This could help prevent similar threads where experienced users might not be misled, but those new to crypto or Bitcoin could be at risk.
They could easily bypass that restrictions and it's not that hard to become a Junior member, if they really want to spam some links in forum.
Even if newbies posts a scam link someone would probably quickly report it to moderators and they would probably get banned.
I think theymos also said that there will be no new jails and restrictions for newbies.
hero member
Activity: 2156
Merit: 803
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September 25, 2024, 05:53:05 AM
#23
I suggest that users below the Junior Member rank should not be allowed to post links on the forum.
This could help prevent similar threads where experienced users might not be misled, but those new to crypto or Bitcoin could be at risk.

Let me know what you think. I'm sure the mod team or @theymos will take this into consideration.  Wink

You are suggesting an idea that I am certain that the admin will never agree to as a lot of new Gambling websites come up with a simple (text based) announcement page, wherein they post the link to their casino using a Brand New account. Later, they bought a Copper Membership when suggested by someone like me who is active on that board. There is a possibility that later on they will use the forum to market their casino through different campaigns.

I am doubtful that your suggestion will be accepted but if someone good like PowerGlove who is known to create patches to the existing version of SMF, he might be able to create a patch to resolve this issue. What I meant was that if a disclaimer comes up while hovering over the link stating that clicking the link or visiting the link can be harmful to the device or yourself. If that is not possible then let it be as the forum does not hold any responsibility for someone visiting any links posted here.
legendary
Activity: 2072
Merit: 4265
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September 25, 2024, 04:47:37 AM
#22
OP, you can save newbies from forum scammers by keeping them from suspicious links, but you can't save them from everything dangerous on the Internet.
Like if there is a security wall, they will try to break through it. If there is an "Internet Fire Wall", they will try to break it too. If there are many scam warnings, they'll try to ignore these warnings.

Warnings against scam, education about scam and how to avoid scam, are enough for newbies. It's up to newbies to read, learn and absorb these available scam-avoiding resources, and apply these advises into their practice, or skip these advises and try to interact with scammers.

Individually some personal things like curiosity, greed, and carelessness are keys to make people falling into scam.

Well, you see, you are looking at everything correctly. If a person is careful, then he should not be afraid of any links. He will either check them correctly or pass by. But it is useless to forbid something to protect someone ready to jump headlong into a hole anyway. He needs to fall himself so that next time he will remember what and how to do so as not to get bumps again. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1018
Not your keys, not your coins!
September 25, 2024, 04:39:44 AM
#21
OP, you can save newbies from forum scammers by keeping them from suspicious links, but you can't save them from everything dangerous on the Internet.
Like if there is a security wall, they will try to break through it. If there is an "Internet Fire Wall", they will try to break it too. If there are many scam warnings, they'll try to ignore these warnings.

Warnings against scam, education about scam and how to avoid scam, are enough for newbies. It's up to newbies to read, learn and absorb these available scam-avoiding resources, and apply these advises into their practice, or skip these advises and try to interact with scammers.

Individually some personal things like curiosity, greed, and carelessness are keys to make people falling into scam.
legendary
Activity: 2072
Merit: 4265
✿♥‿♥✿
September 25, 2024, 04:24:01 AM
#20
OP, you can save newbies from forum scammers by keeping them from suspicious links, but you can't save them from everything dangerous on the Internet. Someone coming to the forum knows about phishing and other nasty things that he can inadvertently pick up, and it doesn't matter whether he is a newbie on the forum or not. Those who do not know about Internet safety, moreover, do not want to learn, will gain experience, after which they will be careful.
As a result, you cannot save the world from criminals, so give people the right to learn themselves.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 315
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September 25, 2024, 03:46:32 AM
#19
I think it would be quite foolish for anybody to listen to the words or service of a newbie without doing any research.
I have seen quite some cases, reported some and saw some users that dropped a comment
Suggesting it may likely be a scam.
Going as far as limiting posting Link to me is not really necessary.
Not all newbie post suspicious link, some have substance especially some I have come across in the devopment and technical board that directs one to a Github post.
And not all long termed member share Link that are of value.

legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1228
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September 25, 2024, 01:11:49 AM
#18
-snip-
Best thing to do is for us more seasoned members to just report such posts and move on.
I tend to agree with this one - that's how it should be when someone finds something suspicious in a post by any of rank. Even though newbie tend not to care about the bad consequences of their violations - but basically any form of scam attempt is not moderated in this forum. All users are expected to do their own research on anything including links posted carelessly by newbie or Legendary.
copper member
Activity: 2338
Merit: 4543
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September 24, 2024, 10:01:29 PM
#17
I somewhat agree, but what about it being a string of text and not clickable if the user who posted is below Junior Rank.
That way, we will have user post the link but others will have to copy and paste it, making it secure for everyone.

I like this suggestion, even though it's really likely to stop anyone from following the link if they're gullible enough to believe there are people out there giving away free money.  And even that falls into the realm of scam not being moderated here.  Best thing to do is for us more seasoned members to just report such posts and move on.
hero member
Activity: 2464
Merit: 594
September 24, 2024, 08:27:23 PM
#16
It would have not been good if I found out that I can not post link. Anyone may want to make reference and some people will just post link for good reasons. Because a knife can kill someone, should it be the reason it should not be allowed for daily use in the Kitchen?

I somewhat agree, but what about it being a string of text and not clickable if the user who posted is below Junior Rank.
That way, we will have user post the link but others will have to copy and paste it, making it secure for everyone.

There are many ways to fight against this issue, I was just making a point which can be further discussed. Cheesy
I understand Charles-Tim's point. It's true that restricting links entirely could limit legitimate use cases. However, I think your suggestion of making links non-clickable for new users is a good compromise. It allows for sharing information while minimizing the risk of scams.

Perhaps they could implement a system where new users can post links, but they're automatically made non-clickable until they reach a certain rank. This would give them a chance to prove themselves as active and trustworthy members before gaining full posting privileges.
full member
Activity: 308
Merit: 142
September 24, 2024, 06:56:53 PM
#15
Things amaze these days in the forum. Newbies who should be learning and understanding the forum are everywhere posting scams and advertising scam projects. I often wonder if they are newbies or other members in the forum who don't want any tag for the links if they post it with their main account.

I don't know if it's just me alone who has encountered the fact that they don't post links in the forum but they go as far as jumping into our inbox and sharing the link with us privately.
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1104
September 24, 2024, 06:40:19 PM
#14
I suggest that users below the Junior Member rank should not be allowed to post links on the forum.
This could help prevent similar threads where experienced users might not be misled, but those new to crypto or Bitcoin could be at risk.
I hope you realize how retriscting this is and how this would affect and could discourage newbies who are new here that actually want to learn, ask something, share information, warn people, etc... restricting them to not be able to post links is just too much(at least for me).

anyway, I remember similar point(newbies should not be allowed to post links) has been made in the past and I gave the same sentiment I am giving now.
sr. member
Activity: 1204
Merit: 290
September 24, 2024, 04:23:05 PM
#13
I have previously suggested the same, here is the thread:

Brand new / Newbie accounts shouldn't be allowed to post links early on

The community's response was the same as it is here; no one agreed, and everyone said there shouldn't be such restrictions because it creates a newbie jail, and theymos didn't want that. So, I guess no restriction like that is going to be implemented unless something happens and theymos changes his mind all of a sudden but what are the odds for that?

So, ultimately, we will have to use the traditional way when we see such posts; report to the moderators.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 481
September 24, 2024, 04:11:39 PM
#12
Link posting restrictions will do more harm than good because alot of times newbies create threads and with reference which sometimes demands them to post the link although there is no doubt in the abuse of this link posting by scammers and even spammers, but we as forum members need to act to complement the forum by reporting any suspicious links and also posting exposure about anything that is fishy and attempts scams, this way we get rude of them ASAP just like in the mentioned thread you can see how forum members immediately counter the offer.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 4711
**In BTC since 2013**
September 24, 2024, 03:23:48 PM
#11
I saw this post from the user and this is his first post on the forum. And he's basically advertising without disclosure a Bitcoin Lottery, which is more likely to be a scam.

What about when higher level users do the same thing? They post suspicious links, what happens to them?

I understand the point, but it ends up being ineffective for the proposed idea. It may minimize something, but it will greatly penalize those who are arriving on the forum now.

Even if the link is not clickable, it will be there and anyone can use it. The most efficient solution remains to report it to the moderator, so that the post/topic is deleted, and the appropriate measures are taken in relation to that user.
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 1089
September 24, 2024, 12:45:35 PM
#10
Theymos would not limit newbies participation, and we can debate all we want on how 'good' this suggestion may be for the forum, but we honestly know that Theymos isn't going to implement it.

Genuine newbies might have good reasons to post links in the forum, limiting them because there are a few who might want to post scam links is not fair. Since the forum does not moderate scam, users should look out for themselves and report things like this to the moderator.
sr. member
Activity: 686
Merit: 332
September 24, 2024, 12:38:11 PM
#9
I don't see anything wrong with posting links, provided they're not malicious or scam links. I believe everybody should be allowed to post links because that's a way to reference their post to avoid plagiarism.
In this particular situation where the post is an obvious scam, you should report the post and let the moderations delete it immediately (that's what I do at least).
I don't even mind if the moderators are harsh with their decision and decide to ban the account, but it wouldn't hurt to give such accounts a benefit of the doubt and see if they'll post more stuff like that. Kind of like a strike system where one scam post gets deleted and warned, and two scam posts, you get banned.
member
Activity: 66
Merit: 5
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September 24, 2024, 10:56:23 AM
#8
From Theymos perspective which I also agree with it's probably too much to limit newbies of different things in this forum.
Images are not allowed, Post per day is also limited if I'm correct, PMs are also limited and now requesting that they shouldn't be allowed to post links is for some reason way too much restrictions for them.

If I have a new account created under my name as Churchillvv2 which I'm probably going to be offering a service or for test purposes hence if this restriction is granted I/we wouldn't be able to post a link when I/we want even though it's necessary that means we will have to start needing merits to rank up before we can do anything which is very unpleasant to me.

Imagine if you haven't registered here before now and you are asking not to post some common things it's really not a nice ideal in my opinion.

We can use the report button if we find a newbie posting a link that is suspicious or harmful it's that simple.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 1010
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September 24, 2024, 10:53:24 AM
#7
I disagree to not allow any lower forum ranks to post links. They would post the links as text anyway.

If you spot suspicious links, report the post and/or call such users out. If anyone and maybe especially low-rankers regularly stand out with suspicious links, they deserve some appropriate punishment or actions. No need for newbie jail as theymos already pointed out.
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