I'd venture to say I have a better idea of how much hardware has been sold than you, seeing as though I used to distribute Gridseed mining hardware, and had contacts high up on the food chain in those regards. Sure, I agree a 10% increase is pitiful compared to a 120% increase, but anyone that knows anything knows that Dogecoin is crap so I'm not sure what your point is in that comparison.
Your experience selling 300kh hardware released in February does not give you any specific or applicable knowledge about numbers related to the latest 80mh hardware.
The point of the Dogecoin reference is to help you with your definition of "pitiful."
I conceded earlier that Litecoin is the most secure
Scrypt coin, and admittedly I haven't had time to keep up with the Litecoin network hash rate as I have been moving, so I will assume that you are correct that Litecoin's SCRYPT hashrate is bigger than all other Scrypt coins combined.
The problem is that argument is invalid as to a reason why it should be chosen as an investment above one that can't be mined at all (any purely PoS variant.) Furthermore, both Bitcoiners and Litecoins mostly ignore the fact of all the wasted electricity and computing power that is being consumed/wasted by PoW and fail to see the importance of PoS-like schemes and scientific coins such as Primecoin. One solves the electricity problem and the other solves the waste of processing power. They both solve a problem, all Litecoin does is speed up the block time and increase coin numbers
which can also be done on a coin that solves a problem such as the examples AKA. innovative.I'm not saying that finding Prime numbers is going to change the world, but if one useful thing was developed I am hopeful that someone will find a way to figure out something that will. Also, it is debatable which form of PoS is the best and it is still not an exact science yet, I feel like the answer is close if not here already. It's hard to keep up with all the tweaks to PoS people have done. Again, both of these are innovative and solve problems, meanwhile all Litecoin does is speed up the block time and increase coin numbers
which can also be done on a coin that solves a problem such as the examples AKA. innovative.Actually.. people that are mining on multi pools are usually making more profit than people mining purely Litecoin. It is ridiculous to refute this fact, if you had any hands on experience then you would know so. Sure they have less liquidity, but it doesn't mean a higher profit can't be made mining something other than Litecoin, in fact it is a preposterous statement to say that multi pools are less profitable than purely mining Litecoin, or any coin for that matter. The same could be said for sha256 mining. If you aren't making more money in the long term on a multi pool, then you are on a crappy multi pool. Not all multi pools are as profitable as others due to the different techniques used.
First of all, what is profitable for someone with 5mh is not the same as what is profitable for someone with 50, in coin switching. The coins they mine are so illiquid that coins sit unexchanged and often by the time the market absorbs them, the price has been driven down to the point where it was less profitable. Yes, I have firsthand experience with this dynamic. Profit switching is only going to get worse.
You need to find yourself a better multi
scrypt (see argument #1) coin pool. They do not all switch the same, exchange coins right away, etc.. they all have different strategies. If I was a smart multi coin pool operator, I would point a percentage of the pool to each of the coins that are more profitable to further negate anything that could happen in the market, and again exchange them quickly (as to your other point.) Also point a higher percentage of the pool's hash rate if you're risk adverse (or lower if you're risk prone) towards more stable currencies. Coinshift introduced slowly switching in between different coins instead of instantly switching them.. there are a lot of ways you can go about it. Use an exchange like Crypsty to automatically exchange coins as fast as you can, you can set it to auto trade for you, or wait a set amount of time for the market to adjust back up from the other multi pools dumping. There are a lot of ways you can go about it, I guarantee you some have put more thought into their strategies than others and you can see it on charts like the following. You can see there are some multi pools that consistently mine above what simply mining Litecoin could:
http://i.snag.gy/9QOQN.jpgOk, so you're not a noob, but you are clueless if you think price follows difficulty. You are ignoring all the money flowing into the infrastructure of Bitcoin. You are so focused on mining hardware that you can't realize the big picture. With Bitcoin much more of that money was also spent on things such as payment processors, exchanges, services, and protocols on top of Bitcoin. This isn't happening with Litecoin on the same scale it is happening with Bitcoin, at least not to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars like Bitcoin. The reason for the price hike was many factors, and you seem to be insinuating that it is purely because of Bitcoin ASICs which is a ludicrous statement. Look in the project development and development subforums here and compare it to the Litecoin forums... a large percentage of money going into Litecoin is going into purely mining hardware, whereas with Bitcoin its being spread around all over the place. Stop acting like you have it all figured out when you are obviously clueless.
If price follows difficulty, then tell me why the Bitcoin price has not followed this trend the past 6 months?
https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rateIf you want more examples, they are numerous and I would be happy to provide them to you. It would be easier if you just did the research yourself though.
When the option to find another more profitable coin to mine is no longer there, dumping will no longer be economically feasible. Hoarding will force price to move, as long as the increased strength and growth stimulates interest and press (which it will). It is not a direct correlation, it is symptomatic. Demand drives price. Security and reliability (strength) drives demand.
Sorry, but there will usually always be a more profitable
Scrypt coin (again see argument #1). It has been like that for a long time, and I don't see it changing anytime soon. Do to market dynamics and mining dynamics Litecoin will never consistently stay at the top of the Scrypt coin profitable list. I say this because since the release of web sites like coinchoose, coinwarz, etc.. historically Litecoin is not at the top of that list, or even in the top 3 or 5. Sure, it is usually at least top 10 and sometimes #1, however the majority of the time there are others that would be more profitable. Go to any site you choose this very moment as you can see there are a few that are more profitable to mine than Litecoin. If Litecoin is the most profitable coin to mine, then more people jump on it making the difficulty go up and making other coins more profitable (visa versa with all other Scrypt coins.)
http://coinchoose.com/litecoin.phphttp://www.coinwarz.com/miningprofitability/litecoinhttp://dustcoin.com/And by the way...don't fix my post when you don't know what you're talking about. That $30million number I posted was calculated based on the increase in Litecoin's network hashrate since the introduction of the 80MH/s models from Innosilicon, Zeusminer and Silverfish at an average wholesale cost of $9000 per 80MH/s device. I know you fancy yourself quite the know-it-all here, but you don't have your facts straight.
That's all good and nice, and it would be applicable to the debate if price followed difficulty. However, your statement is based on a flawed premise that price follows difficulty, and that mining hardware investments for Bitcoin are the only reason Bitcoin's price has gone up. When in fact it has been proven over the years during the numerous ups and downs that price does not follow difficulty, and also ignoring all the money going into many different aspects of the Bitcoin infrastructure.. not just mining hardware.
Furthermore, Litecoin having the most secure ALT coin network is a flat out lie. Most of the coins in the top 10 market cap are not Scrypt coins. Sure, you have the most secure SCRYPT alt coin. Everyone knows pretty much all Scrypt coins are crap, so you guys are like king of the crap coins. Congratulations, that's a huge accomplishment. The newer more innovative coins don't need to waste millions in electricity spitting out useless strings of data to secure their block chains, meanwhile subjecting their miners to pre-order scams and shady mining manufacturers. Nor do they have to worry about centralization of the network further down the road like all ASIC mine-able coins will have to succumb to.
Don't mix arguments. Price following difficulty or not has zero bearing on the calculation of how much money has been put into hardware infrastructure in the last 6-8 weeks.
All these arguments are related and it is hard not to discuss some things without mentioning others. It is the overall picture I am more worried about. You act like money being put into mining hardware (Scrypt ASICs and power hungry PoW) are a good thing. Sure, if you like oligarchies and killing planet earth at an accelerated rate they are a good thing. Your coin is more secure than all
Scrypt coins, but it comes at the cost of electricity and centralization. Just wait until the VCs and bankers start mining... we haven't seen nothing yet when it comes to difficulty increases in Bitcoin/Litecoin. Eventually it will become quite centralized and definitely unprofitable (if it isn't already... that's debatable) to anyone without extremely deep pockets.
You spend a lot of time justifying your points with "everyone knows."
I will try to refrain from that in the future and provide more facts and links such as I have in this post. It is a fact tho that price does not follow difficulty.. it's not even debatable see my reply to Smoothie (if that's what you were referring to.)
The discussion about energy efficiency is not germane to the discussion of security, either. Bitcoin doesn't get it wrong.
I agree, but energy efficiency should be a factor in choosing an electronic currency, no? Do you leave your car running 24/7 also? Bitcoin DOES have it wrong. I feel the same about Bitcoin as to this point, PoW, and ASICs.
This is a big part of the whole idea I am trying to convey that Litecoin simply is copying Bitcoin's mistakes. If it doesn't have anything innovative to stand on its own, it will become irrelevant if anything overtakes Bitcoin, which is more possible than everyone would like to believe.
This supposition you seem to have that we need something with more bells and whistles is symptomatic of the "pump and dump" mentality that has overrun alt coins, where some trivial or pointless (or untenable) "feature" is used to craft a plausible story to back a "pump." They are all houses of cards.
In all seriousness, it's funny that you just described my exact opinion of Litecoin in the above paragraph. Except you over generalize in the last statement "they are all a house of cards." Sure, most of them are I agree... even 95% or more of them are, I also agree. Not all of them are gimmicks and only make minor changes (cough... Litecoin.) There are many very innovative coins in development and coins that already exist that are going to really shake up the whole ALT coin scene due to their features and innovation. Most of the coins in the past have been pump and dumps I agree (cough... Litecoin,) but some people are really trying to change the way people think about and use crypto currency.
Some features may seem unnecessary.... or as you guys like to put it a "gimmick", however people like features. What don't you guys understand about this? Sure, Bitcoin and Litecoin work just the way they are. What may seem gimmicky to you might totally sell another person on a crypto currency. The more features you add the more likely someone is going to find crypto currencies useful, specifically the one that has the features they like. You guys may be fine with Bitcoin/Litecoin how it is, but I know I am not alone in saying that I want more features. There is literally no amount of features that I would deem too many. If that feature gains one new user to the crypto currency, then it was a success.
Obviously some features are more useful/valuable than others. This is where the I think you guys (Smoothie doesn't like me saying you guys, but I keep hearing different people make the same arguments. It is easier for me to address all of you at the same time) overgeneralize that everything is a gimmick because there certainly have been some gimmicky changes to scam coins in the past (cough... Litecoin.) All of the coins that will be worth anything actually add useful features that at least someone (ME!) will want to use, I venture to guess I am not alone, and the market has agreed with that guess.
Bitcoin/Litecoin will never replace or take a huge market share from FIAT if more features aren't added. The average sheeple don't mind eating the fees and inflation of FIAT and Debit/Credit cards etcetra. We need to give them more incentive to use crypto currencies. By adding utility to money it makes it more valuable and makes it even more so different from the rather boring FIAT/BTC/LTC. Money doesn't have to specifically be used to pay for things, newer crypto currencies are redefining what people think money should be and what it should be used for. It could be used to do just about anything, and there is no reason why it shouldn't be used for more things than simply make payments.
I know you won't be convinced, and I don't feel compelled to try and sway you. You are just wrong , and your conclusions are based not on precedent and facts, but emotional conjecture and, I assume, a motivation (conscious or otherwise) to pump your new favorites by discrediting the reigning #2. You're barking up the wrong tree.
That's incorrect, I haven't decided which new coin I will invest in. I probably won't have money to for a while. I've been supporting Litecoin for about 2 years and I was only Litecoin rich for a few months when something happened in my life and I needed to cash out all my coins to live on. They have increased a lot in value since then and I wish I was able to hold onto them. It was a very hard decision to not support Litecoin anymore, and I did so long after I didn't own any Litecoins. Believe me, I lobbied hard and LOUD for change on litecointalk.org and no one listened. Now I am laying everything out here and
trying to wake you guys up.
You can still fix all these problems.
