LMAO: India resells Russian oil to the European Union. - page 5.

Lucius

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Quote from: og kush420 on June 05, 2022, 06:21:14 PM

I am not sure - why USA has given so much relief to IND?
They are getting oil from Russia - and USA did not object.

Maybe out of geostrategic interests and because of the US policy in that part of the world? After all, other countries do business with Russia in public or in secret, and dependence on Russian energy cannot be broken just like that. I think it would be completely unfair to point the finger at India because it is doing something that other countries are doing anyway, especially most EU members.

Although according to the data on oil imports when it comes to India, it should be noted that India does not buy oil only for its own needs. Whether they are trying to profit from the current situation, or have secret agreements with someone to be a mediator for Russian oil, remains a question.

Quote from: https://www.politico.eu/article/6-things-know-eu-russia-oil-ban/

Since the invasion of Ukraine, India has bought three times as much oil from Russia as in the same period last year, according to data from Refinitiv Eikon.

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Quote from: og kush420 on June 05, 2022, 06:21:14 PM

I am not sure - why USA has given so much relief to IND?
They are getting oil from Russia - and USA did not object. They are keep so many Kashmiri in curfew and lock down for months and no one object.
Now we all know - how depressing the lock down are - Kashmiris are living in lock down for months post COVID too.

I don't want to divert the topic, but there are certain facts on Kashmir that can't be ignored. The former princely state of Kashmir had a total area of 222,441 sq.kms. Out of that, the Indian government currently controls an area of 101,387 sq.kms (45.58% of the total area). The majority of Kashmir is under the control of Pakistan or China. And now coming to the population, 27.6% of the population was comprised of Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists in 1941. Now these groups are absent in the Pakistan controlled part of Kashmir, because they were exterminated in 1947. Pakistan has no right to talk about Kashmir, because they exterminated non-Muslim Kashmiris in 1947.

And now coming to oil imports from Russia, I would like to remind everyone that India is a sovereign nation. We will import from anyone as per our choice and Americans doesn't have any right to dictate us.

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Quote from: Lucius on June 05, 2022, 10:34:30 AM

There is always a way to circumvent sanctions, it is just a question of how resourceful those who trade in oil will be. These days, the story is circulating again that many tankers are shutting down their transponders near the African coast because they want to mask the trail where exactly they were. Oil from China and India flows directly from ship to ship and then continues on its way to the EU and the US - which is not a new method, but it is now widely used.

Here is an example from 2019 :

Quote from: https://www.voanews.com/a/economy-business_tankers-impossible-voyage-signals-new-sanction-evasion-ploy/6206310.html

The Cyprus-flagged oil tanker Berlina was drifting near the Caribbean island of Dominica earlier this year when tracking technology showed it stopping in its tracks and in two minutes turning around 180 degrees.

It was an amazingly quick pivot since the 274-meter ship needs roughly 10 times that amount of time to perform such a maneuver.

Even more intriguing: Around the same time the Berlina was pinging its location at sea, it was physically spotted loading crude oil in nearby Venezuela despite U.S. sanctions against such trading.

Meanwhile, nine other ships, some connected to the same Greece-based owner of the Berlina, were digitally monitored moving nearby at an identical speed and direction with sudden draft changes, indicating they had somehow been loaded full of crude though apparently out at sea.

I am not sure - why USA has given so much relief to IND?
They are getting oil from Russia - and USA did not object. They are keep so many Kashmiri in curfew and lock down for months and no one object.
Now we all know - how depressing the lock down are - Kashmiris are living in lock down for months post COVID too.

Lucius

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There is always a way to circumvent sanctions, it is just a question of how resourceful those who trade in oil will be. These days, the story is circulating again that many tankers are shutting down their transponders near the African coast because they want to mask the trail where exactly they were. Oil from China and India flows directly from ship to ship and then continues on its way to the EU and the US - which is not a new method, but it is now widely used.

Here is an example from 2019 :

Quote from: https://www.voanews.com/a/economy-business_tankers-impossible-voyage-signals-new-sanction-evasion-ploy/6206310.html

The Cyprus-flagged oil tanker Berlina was drifting near the Caribbean island of Dominica earlier this year when tracking technology showed it stopping in its tracks and in two minutes turning around 180 degrees.

It was an amazingly quick pivot since the 274-meter ship needs roughly 10 times that amount of time to perform such a maneuver.

Even more intriguing: Around the same time the Berlina was pinging its location at sea, it was physically spotted loading crude oil in nearby Venezuela despite U.S. sanctions against such trading.

Meanwhile, nine other ships, some connected to the same Greece-based owner of the Berlina, were digitally monitored moving nearby at an identical speed and direction with sudden draft changes, indicating they had somehow been loaded full of crude though apparently out at sea.

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The sanctions will never work, because people are too dependent on Oil and Gas..... and if they cannot buy it from Russia, then they will explore other markets. Russia can destroy the global Oil cartel by selling it's Oil and Gas at a cheaper price to countries that are not part of these sanctions. Roll Eyes

We saw what happened to Iraq and Iran when the Western world sanctioned them after the 911 fiasco. Roll Eyes

(They just sold Oil to "friendly" countries and those companies re-sold that processed Oil to the rest of the world) Roll Eyes

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 05, 2022, 06:18:20 AM

Quote from: Alisha-k on June 05, 2022, 05:29:36 AM

European union is been robbed here, but do we think the EU are unaware of this? they literally know the amount of oil India can refine and supply to them weren't they suspicious of the increased supply. They EU are playing blind on this i know they know the source of the oil supplied from the Indians but can't question it.

Being an Indian, I fully support the decision from the Indian government to import Russian crude. Why we Indians should suffer from stupid Western policies? Crude oil was trading at $40 per barrel when Trump was in power. And then Biden was elected as the president. The first decision he took was to cancel the Keystone XL pipeline and to ban fracking in federal lands. The prices went up by 100% as a result. And they went up further as a result of sanctions and embargoes imposed by the US on Russia. And they went even further up, after stupid Americans seized the Iranian oil tanker. Now listen, we Indians are tired of paying the price for aggressive policies from the US. Those in the US and EU maybe able to afford 3x increase in gasoline prices. We can't afford these prices.

That's right indian government is just doing a right thing because they do a wisest decision for betterment of their citizens and why do they join on those sanctions while they know that they are the one who will suffer. We see many country who join at it suffer from huge inflation bloat up and its good action made by them to take advantage on situation then earn with this and not suffer on major oil price increase just like what happen to many countries on any parts of the world.

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Quote from: Alisha-k on June 05, 2022, 05:29:36 AM

European union is been robbed here, but do we think the EU are unaware of this? they literally know the amount of oil India can refine and supply to them weren't they suspicious of the increased supply. They EU are playing blind on this i know they know the source of the oil supplied from the Indians but can't question it.

Being an Indian, I fully support the decision from the Indian government to import Russian crude. Why we Indians should suffer from stupid Western policies? Crude oil was trading at $40 per barrel when Trump was in power. And then Biden was elected as the president. The first decision he took was to cancel the Keystone XL pipeline and to ban fracking in federal lands. The prices went up by 100% as a result. And they went up further as a result of sanctions and embargoes imposed by the US on Russia. And they went even further up, after stupid Americans seized the Iranian oil tanker. Now listen, we Indians are tired of paying the price for aggressive policies from the US. Those in the US and EU maybe able to afford 3x increase in gasoline prices. We can't afford these prices.

davis196

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The European Union is governed by complete idiots. There's no doubt about that.
The so called "Green Deal" is BS. The policies regarding Middle East refugees were BS. The sanctions towards Russia are going to end up as a total BS. When the retarded bureaucrats of the EU are going to do something right?
India is too far away from Europe, I think that countries like Turkey might be buying more Russian oil, refining it and selling the gasoline and diesel to the EU countries(I don't remember if Turkey actually had oil refining facilities, though). The transport costs would be lower.

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European union is been robbed here, but do we think the EU are unaware of this? they literally know the amount of oil India can refine and supply to them weren't they suspicious of the increased supply. They EU are playing blind on this i know they know the source of the oil supplied from the Indians but can't question it.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: mindrust on June 04, 2022, 01:09:58 PM

Indians are making money, Russians are making money, Europeans getting robbed and still buying the Russian gas.

Brilliant scheme.

Lmao What happened to Europe’s unicorn fart powered windmills anyway? I thought oil/gas was outdated… What happened to WEF’s push for zero carbon footprint?

Also wants to see those faces who want to import gas and oil from an African country. What happens to that initiative? EU should kick out the USA from their coalitions. Every place they put their footprints causes trouble for the people of that region. Where is Qatar now? They also promised to help the EU with fuel supply. Now EU has two options: 1) Buy oil and gas from the USA at a higher price or 2) lift sanctions on Russia.

The EU is very dependent on the US, both militarily as well as politically, seeing the EU at this time as no different from a tool for the US to use to contain other countries.

Sanctions do not seem to do too much damage to Russia and the EU is running out of cards to punish Russia, which is a clear failure. It is the people of the EU who suffer the most, not the US government.

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Quote from: passwordnow on June 05, 2022, 05:11:39 AM

This is business as usual and I think that this will make their relationship and friendship better. While the world is in economic turndown due to the price of oil. There goes India that won't be affected by it and instead, they're making business in this situation. This is the same as the start of the pandemic, while the world is experiencing fear of the virus, there go the huge pharma companies that have been making billions out of the situation.

It is business but this means nothing change nothing, EU wants to cut down the importation of crude oil and it's by-product from Russia, Russia decided not to supply gas to some EU countries. But now, EU will buy the oil products from India, which means Russia is not affect but a means India are making money.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 04, 2022, 09:08:17 PM

This month, India is expected to import almost a million barrels of Russian crude per day, which is almost 35 times the volume for 2021. And the Indian consumers are not benefitting from these imports. Most of this crude is refined to diesel and gasoline and then exported to European Union and other South Asian nations. And the Indian government is in talks with Russia to further increase the imports later this year, if Russia is willing to increase the discount. As of now, the discount is $30 to $35 per barrel. The Indian government is requesting for discounts in the range of $45-$50 per barrel.

This is business as usual and I think that this will make their relationship and friendship better. While the world is in economic turndown due to the price of oil. There goes India that won't be affected by it and instead, they're making business in this situation. This is the same as the start of the pandemic, while the world is experiencing fear of the virus, there go the huge pharma companies that have been making billions out of the situation.

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Quote from: Husires on June 05, 2022, 04:41:24 AM

Let's see how Russia will be able to sell about 3 million barrels that were going to Europe and its allies.

Through the Druzhba pipeline? Haven't you realized yet that the EU oil embargo is pure farce and bluff. Hungary did not join the embargo, Bulgaria, Slovakia and Croatia did, but with a number of reservations and delays. A large refinery in East Germany that produces aviation fuel for the whole of Europe is designed for heavy Russian oil, and it is easier to build a new plant than to reconfigure an old one. Europe has painted itself into a corner with populist statements by incompetent politicians, and now their voters will have to pay the price. Russia does not need to sell three million barrels to Europe when Europe is driving up oil prices through its actions. It is enough to sell two million and get the same money or even more.

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China was almost doing this with Iran. I wonder how India was not demonized or tried to prevent it from doing so.
If we read the numbers, it jumped from less than 200,000 barrels at the beginning of the year to less than 800,000 dollars.
It is not enough to solve the energy problem, and I think that the final consumer is the one who decides whether this step will succeed or not, just as happened with Shell (Shell agrees to sell Russian retail business to Lukoil - BBC).

Let's see how Russia will be able to sell about 3 million barrels that were going to Europe and its allies.

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on June 04, 2022, 12:49:06 PM

I first saw this in a Spanish forum, but I see that a national newspaper in Spain has brought it out.

https://www.elmundo.es/economia/macroeconomia/2022/06/04/629a1c44e4d4d8fb2a8b460d.html

In English:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-india-is-set-to-win-big-as-eu-bans-russian-oil-imports-11654021874

India is receiving 600,000 barrels per day from Russia compared to 90,000 barrels per day last year, which buys at below market price, refines and sells at a higher price to Europe. What a masterstroke by the European Union, LMAO.

Nobody thought of this? Last Friday the EU adopted sanctions banning oil imports from Russia.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/3511129-eu-officially-adopts-russian-oil-embargo/

Once this has come to light, what are they going to do? Not buy from India? It reminds me of exchanges or other entities that don't want tainted coins.

I put this comment here because I think it is the key to the issue:

Quote from: Sithara007 on June 05, 2022, 12:54:07 AM

Once the oil is refined in to diesel, it will be impossible to know about it's origin. And here, the situation is further complicated by the fact that the two oil companies who have purchased huge amounts of oil recently (Nayara Energy and Reliance Industries) also import a lot of oil from Iraq and Saudi Arabia. So they can always claim that the diesel they sell to the EU is sourced from Iraqi crude. After all, it is same substance with the same chemical composition coming from different oil wells. There is no 100% accurate method to find out how many molecules came from Russia, and how many came from Iraq.

So India claims that what it sells to the EU does not come from Russia, the EU claims that what it buys does not come from Russia, when most likely at least some of what it buys from India comes from Russia, and more expensively. LMAO.

India is playing the game that benefits their people, but it won't go unnoticed and it's clear the India is losing any status it had as a freedom loving democracy. That being said, Russia is still the ultimate loser in this situation because India will be paying them much less than market rates and it has much lower capacity to receive Russia oil. It's more expensive for Russia to send oil there, so they lose all around. I'm not sure why you are gloating that Europe pays more when the whole war in Ukraine is absolutely pointless and achieves nothing but to stroke Putin's vanity. Many people are dying, Russia becomes isolated and desperate, these insignificant events like who pays much less for Russian oil is the best you can come up with?

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 05, 2022, 12:54:07 AM

<..>

In the end, they are making a play because the fact is that at least part of what India sells to Europe is of Russian origin, but as it has plausible deniability, they hide behind that. In my view, it's a showboating move by the EU, but it's a botched job if you stop to analyse it minimally
.

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on June 04, 2022, 11:10:18 PM

~~~
The fact that India buys oil from Russia is not new, but it is not what I wanted to emphasize in the thread. What I wanted to emphasize was the European Union making a fool of itself by buying more expensive Russian oil from India.

What does the US have to say to the EU now for buying Russian oil from India? Or is it just going to blame India and turn a blind eye to the EU?

Once the oil is refined in to diesel, it will be impossible to know about it's origin. And here, the situation is further complicated by the fact that the two oil companies who have purchased huge amounts of oil recently (Nayara Energy and Reliance Industries) also import a lot of oil from Iraq and Saudi Arabia. So they can always claim that the diesel they sell to the EU is sourced from Iraqi crude. After all, it is same substance with the same chemical composition coming from different oil wells. There is no 100% accurate method to find out how many molecules came from Russia, and how many came from Iraq.

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Quote from: adaseb on June 04, 2022, 10:43:48 PM

This is why I knew these sanctions wouldn’t of done anything. If anything it’s hurting the consumer because traders are buying up the crude oil futures and everybody suffers at the pumps.

But the non sanctioned countries buys the oil and they resell to a sanctioned country with Russia. Makes pretty much no sense.

Like putting money in one pocket and out the other. They need to sanction all the countries for this to work.

Regardless of all the talks we have listened for the past months the European Union needs the oil and gas coming from Russia, maybe over the long term with an effective set of policies they could reduce their reliance on Russia, but for now this is not something possible for them, so how to solve this on the short term? They cannot do it, which is precisely the reason we are seeing something as nonsensical as this happening.

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Indian recently made a tax cut on petrol and diesel. Maybe the reselling of fuel could've let the government lower the excise duty. The ruling government increased the excise duty more than 10% and now it has made a 3% cut finding the compensation out of selling to the European countries. Somehow Indian government is making money out of the war crisis. Recently US condemned India, but the news wasn't transparent and condemn was made for some other reason.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 04, 2022, 09:08:17 PM

I had already mentioned about it a few days back:

Quote from: Gyfts on June 04, 2022, 04:02:05 PM

This is old news but the U.S. was very upset about India buying oil from Russia.

The fact that India buys oil from Russia is not new, but it is not what I wanted to emphasise in the thread. What I wanted to emphasise was the European Union making a fool of itself by buying more expensive Russian oil from India.

What does the US have to say to the EU now for buying Russian oil from India? Or is it just going to blame India and turn a blind eye to the EU?

Quote from: TravelMug on June 04, 2022, 08:25:28 PM

India deny it though,

Quote

“There’s an enormous shortage of oil...Getting access to oil is difficult. A country like India would be crazy to get oil from somebody and sell it to somebody else. This is nonsense,” he said when asked about the reports at the ‘GlobeSec Bratislava Forum’ conference in the Slovak Republic on Friday.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/india-is-not-a-conduit-for-russian-oil-sales-jaishankar/article65491475.ece

But we really don't know who is saying the truth here. India is playing their cards very well here and it's up to us to who really believed or who to side in this story. And let's see if US is going to sanction India or it is just a empty threat as we all know that the US-India relationship as far as political and non-political interests are.

Thank you, we have no way of knowing who is telling the truth, I'm afraid. What I think is that the EU must be buying the oil from somewhere that it used to buy from Russia, I don't think they have magically stopped consuming 2.5 million barrels a day.

https://theconversation.com/que-ocurriria-si-europa-dejara-de-comprar-petroleo-a-rusia-178253

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