Thats another thing about traditional lending. In this case we are closing in 2 weeks. While that seems fairly standard. Its really annoying actually. I have projects that are going on at my 4 plex, that need funding too, and we are running out of good weather to do some of these projects. BTCJam definitely has the ability to fund loans faster than most traditional lenders.
I think with a title loan company, we could get bitcoin to people after an application, some basic investigation on their identity and such, and then they would need to overnight the title to us for a 24 hour turnaround on a title loan.
This would need two parts. The loan processing department and an escrow service. I will see if I am able to fund development of some software to manage this kind of an operation. It would be a great benefit to the community, and very profitable I suspect.
I'll probably offer another loan request for a small amount on BTCJam, both as a reputation building loan, and because I want to purchase a coinkite point of sale terminal, and I want to pay with BTC without taking away from my operating capital.
So look for a new loan request by me, a much smaller loan request.
Topic: Loan requested - Business startup (Read 4592 times)
Some of the $4k was likely title costs which you would have had if you had used someone on here to lend you with title to your property
Exactly, there is a shit load of costs that all add up to $4000. Then the interest on top of that. It's a pretty spendy loan.
This has inspired me with a business that loans BTC on titles and deeds though. I am really serious about putting a business like this together now.
if the shit hits the fan on your business, you will have a ton of investor debt. what will you do in such a situation?
It's a moot point now. I got financing. I don't have any debt right now, until this loan closes in 12 days. I own my house and my cars, and I have an income producing multiplex. So when you say "you will have a ton of investor debt". I won't have anything unsecured at this point, and I am not borrowing "a ton". In fact my property is valued at 5x what I am borrowing and I wouldn't even be borrowing as much as I am, except they won't do micro loans less than $100k usually. They made a special exception for me. They would have loaned me all 100K, but I was only asking for $30k. They wouldn't let me go as low as $30k, so I had to borrow a bit more. Quite a bit more actually.
Overall, a loan at BTCJam would have been better than having to take out this huge loan. But dems the breaks. Either way, we are putting a shitload of the loan back to the principle, so we have less interest over all. We only needed $30k, so that's what we will walk away with. It may look good on our credit too, Im not sure.
Quote
If you have a 30 year repayment period then your effective interest rate is a lot lower then what you would have paid on BTCjam.
The one thing appealing about BTCJam is they don't charge all of the loan origination fees and such. I save $4000 right off the bat using BTCJam. It balances out. I just prefer coin over fiat.
Some of the $4k was likely title costs which you would have had if you had used someone on here to lend you with title to your property
Quote
If you have a 30 year repayment period then your effective interest rate is a lot lower then what you would have paid on BTCjam.
The one thing appealing about BTCJam is they don't charge all of the loan origination fees and such. I save $4000 right off the bat using BTCJam. It balances out. I just prefer coin over fiat.
So I finally got real today, and I spoke to a lender that we know.
Looks like I will be borrowing fiat to get this business going in the right direction.
I really tried to stay away from fiat and traditional lending.
I got reacquainted today why I stay away from traditional funding. On top of a 10% interest rate, I also have to pay about $4000 lending fees. Plus they wouldn't lend me a small amount of money like $30k, I had to take MUCH more than that, just to qualify for the loan.
Your BTCjam listing had an APR of over 60% which is much higher then 10%, IIRC it was actually around 68%, and the estimated loss rate was ~64%, giving the lender an effective rate of ~4% (but you would still need to have paid the entire 64%Looks like I will be borrowing fiat to get this business going in the right direction.
I really tried to stay away from fiat and traditional lending.
I got reacquainted today why I stay away from traditional funding. On top of a 10% interest rate, I also have to pay about $4000 lending fees. Plus they wouldn't lend me a small amount of money like $30k, I had to take MUCH more than that, just to qualify for the loan.
Although I find it unlikely that you would not have qualified if you took out a smaller loan, if the loan amount was $40k (which is not a *lot* more then $30k, but we can use that figure for illustrative purposes) then a $4k fee for taking out the loan would work out to 10%, and would increase the APR by 40% if you are only taking out a 3 month loan. Add the 40% to the 10% interest rate and you only have an APR of ~50%.
I promise you that bitcoin related lending will not be as efficient as fiat based lending for a long time due to the irreversible nature of bitcoin and the diverse geographic backround of potential borrowers and potential lenders
Actually, another benefit with this fiat money lender, is that he is private and we spoke to the source instead of a broker. We got him to finance us for up to two years, but we are going to pay him much sooner than that to save money on interest. Its spread out over a 30 year amortization period, with interest only repayments. For the purposes that we are using it for, this is a great kind of load for us. It's very flexible.
Since I retired due to a car accident in 2013, I don't have a lot of credit options. I have a decent 6 figure income, but nothing really documented yet such as a w-2, most of my income is stated income until next tax year comes around. For a lot of years I worked for someone else, and I wasn't investing. So I don't have a lot of recent activity on my section C of my tax forms any more, like I used to.
So now I am building credit and going back to entrepreneurial endeavors. It's tough going from being a 9-5 employee for 6 years, to going through the pangs of recovering from a really bad car accident, to then being self employed again all of the sudden.
But we have done this before, and we'll do it again. It's a process.
This also sounds a lot like a mortgage and sounds a lot like you got a "liar loan" that was very common during the mortgage/housing boom period of the mid 2000's
I think they call this guy a hard money lender by standard definition. He does have decent rates. It is a sort of mortgage, but rather its a collateral based business loan. I own a few pieces of real estate. I just don't typically involve banks with loans or purchases.
This will be the first time we have had a mortgage since 2007. I don't even utilize credit cards. Never in my life have I gotten a credit base card.
So I had a few things working against me credit wise. It was just fortunate that I have some collateral.
So I finally got real today, and I spoke to a lender that we know.
Looks like I will be borrowing fiat to get this business going in the right direction.
I really tried to stay away from fiat and traditional lending.
I got reacquainted today why I stay away from traditional funding. On top of a 10% interest rate, I also have to pay about $4000 lending fees. Plus they wouldn't lend me a small amount of money like $30k, I had to take MUCH more than that, just to qualify for the loan.
Your BTCjam listing had an APR of over 60% which is much higher then 10%, IIRC it was actually around 68%, and the estimated loss rate was ~64%, giving the lender an effective rate of ~4% (but you would still need to have paid the entire 64%Looks like I will be borrowing fiat to get this business going in the right direction.
I really tried to stay away from fiat and traditional lending.
I got reacquainted today why I stay away from traditional funding. On top of a 10% interest rate, I also have to pay about $4000 lending fees. Plus they wouldn't lend me a small amount of money like $30k, I had to take MUCH more than that, just to qualify for the loan.
Although I find it unlikely that you would not have qualified if you took out a smaller loan, if the loan amount was $40k (which is not a *lot* more then $30k, but we can use that figure for illustrative purposes) then a $4k fee for taking out the loan would work out to 10%, and would increase the APR by 40% if you are only taking out a 3 month loan. Add the 40% to the 10% interest rate and you only have an APR of ~50%.
I promise you that bitcoin related lending will not be as efficient as fiat based lending for a long time due to the irreversible nature of bitcoin and the diverse geographic backround of potential borrowers and potential lenders
Actually, another benefit with this fiat money lender, is that he is private and we spoke to the source instead of a broker. We got him to finance us for up to two years, but we are going to pay him much sooner than that to save money on interest. Its spread out over a 30 year amortization period, with interest only repayments. For the purposes that we are using it for, this is a great kind of load for us. It's very flexible.
Since I retired due to a car accident in 2013, I don't have a lot of credit options. I have a decent 6 figure income, but nothing really documented yet such as a w-2, most of my income is stated income until next tax year comes around. For a lot of years I worked for someone else, and I wasn't investing. So I don't have a lot of recent activity on my section C of my tax forms any more, like I used to.
So now I am building credit and going back to entrepreneurial endeavors. It's tough going from being a 9-5 employee for 6 years, to going through the pangs of recovering from a really bad car accident, to then being self employed again all of the sudden.
But we have done this before, and we'll do it again. It's a process.
This also sounds a lot like a mortgage and sounds a lot like you got a "liar loan" that was very common during the mortgage/housing boom period of the mid 2000's
So I finally got real today, and I spoke to a lender that we know.
Looks like I will be borrowing fiat to get this business going in the right direction.
I really tried to stay away from fiat and traditional lending.
I got reacquainted today why I stay away from traditional funding. On top of a 10% interest rate, I also have to pay about $4000 lending fees. Plus they wouldn't lend me a small amount of money like $30k, I had to take MUCH more than that, just to qualify for the loan.
Your BTCjam listing had an APR of over 60% which is much higher then 10%, IIRC it was actually around 68%, and the estimated loss rate was ~64%, giving the lender an effective rate of ~4% (but you would still need to have paid the entire 64%Looks like I will be borrowing fiat to get this business going in the right direction.
I really tried to stay away from fiat and traditional lending.
I got reacquainted today why I stay away from traditional funding. On top of a 10% interest rate, I also have to pay about $4000 lending fees. Plus they wouldn't lend me a small amount of money like $30k, I had to take MUCH more than that, just to qualify for the loan.
Although I find it unlikely that you would not have qualified if you took out a smaller loan, if the loan amount was $40k (which is not a *lot* more then $30k, but we can use that figure for illustrative purposes) then a $4k fee for taking out the loan would work out to 10%, and would increase the APR by 40% if you are only taking out a 3 month loan. Add the 40% to the 10% interest rate and you only have an APR of ~50%.
I promise you that bitcoin related lending will not be as efficient as fiat based lending for a long time due to the irreversible nature of bitcoin and the diverse geographic backround of potential borrowers and potential lenders
Actually, another benefit with this fiat money lender, is that he is private and we spoke to the source instead of a broker. We got him to finance us for up to two years, but we are going to pay him much sooner than that to save money on interest. Its spread out over a 30 year amortization period, with interest only repayments. For the purposes that we are using it for, this is a great kind of load for us. It's very flexible.
Since I retired due to a car accident in 2013, I don't have a lot of credit options. I have a decent 6 figure income, but nothing really documented yet such as a w-2, most of my income is stated income until next tax year comes around. For a lot of years I worked for someone else, and I wasn't investing. So I don't have a lot of recent activity on my section C of my tax forms any more, like I used to.
So now I am building credit and going back to entrepreneurial endeavors. It's tough going from being a 9-5 employee for 6 years, to going through the pangs of recovering from a really bad car accident, to then being self employed again all of the sudden.
But we have done this before, and we'll do it again. It's a process.
As for the usefulness of a title loan company. I really think bitcoin can handle this more effectively than fiat.
This is some more information on it > https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9113320
BTW- I would have paid everyone back. You'll see over the years how our business grows. This isn't our first rodeo.
But thanks for everyone who did invest! Maybe next time!
So I finally got real today, and I spoke to a lender that we know.
Looks like I will be borrowing fiat to get this business going in the right direction.
I really tried to stay away from fiat and traditional lending.
I got reacquainted today why I stay away from traditional funding. On top of a 10% interest rate, I also have to pay about $4000 lending fees. Plus they wouldn't lend me a small amount of money like $30k, I had to take MUCH more than that, just to qualify for the loan.
Your BTCjam listing had an APR of over 60% which is much higher then 10%, IIRC it was actually around 68%, and the estimated loss rate was ~64%, giving the lender an effective rate of ~4% (but you would still need to have paid the entire 64%Looks like I will be borrowing fiat to get this business going in the right direction.
I really tried to stay away from fiat and traditional lending.
I got reacquainted today why I stay away from traditional funding. On top of a 10% interest rate, I also have to pay about $4000 lending fees. Plus they wouldn't lend me a small amount of money like $30k, I had to take MUCH more than that, just to qualify for the loan.
Although I find it unlikely that you would not have qualified if you took out a smaller loan, if the loan amount was $40k (which is not a *lot* more then $30k, but we can use that figure for illustrative purposes) then a $4k fee for taking out the loan would work out to 10%, and would increase the APR by 40% if you are only taking out a 3 month loan. Add the 40% to the 10% interest rate and you only have an APR of ~50%.
I promise you that bitcoin related lending will not be as efficient as fiat based lending for a long time due to the irreversible nature of bitcoin and the diverse geographic backround of potential borrowers and potential lenders
if the shit hits the fan on your business, you will have a ton of investor debt. what will you do in such a situation?
It's like the example of the burger joint that I used earlier. If my buddy asked me "hey man, can you lend me $5 so that I can buy a burger"? I wouldn't even think to asked him "Only if you will secure the loan with $5".
I may ask him for his lucky charm, or something. But I wouldn't loan him something, to be secured by the exact same thing. ROFL makes no sense.
I may ask him for his lucky charm, or something. But I wouldn't loan him something, to be secured by the exact same thing. ROFL makes no sense.
Your analogy is incorrect.
Your buddy would ask you to lend him $5 so he could buy a burger. You would ask him for his $10 radio shack gift card as collateral. He could easily turn that card into cash, but he doesn't want to, because he values that gift card.
You are right - it makes no sense to offer cash as collateral for cash. That's not what we are asking.
Bitcoinbikers scammed on btcjam. It would be best not to take his advice.
So I finally got real today, and I spoke to a lender that we know.
Looks like I will be borrowing fiat to get this business going in the right direction.
I really tried to stay away from fiat and traditional lending.
I got reacquainted today why I stay away from traditional funding. On top of a 10% interest rate, I also have to pay about $4000 lending fees. Plus they wouldn't lend me a small amount of money like $30k, I had to take MUCH more than that, just to qualify for the loan.
But the more we work with this guy, the lower our rate will become. So that works for my benefit.
This is another reason why bitcoin lending is much more efficient. The closing fees, and escrow etc is much less than traditional lending.
With this funding, I am looking for a developer and possibly a partner to start a bitcoin > title loan company.
If anyone is interested PM me.
Thanks!
Looks like I will be borrowing fiat to get this business going in the right direction.
I really tried to stay away from fiat and traditional lending.
I got reacquainted today why I stay away from traditional funding. On top of a 10% interest rate, I also have to pay about $4000 lending fees. Plus they wouldn't lend me a small amount of money like $30k, I had to take MUCH more than that, just to qualify for the loan.
But the more we work with this guy, the lower our rate will become. So that works for my benefit.
This is another reason why bitcoin lending is much more efficient. The closing fees, and escrow etc is much less than traditional lending.
With this funding, I am looking for a developer and possibly a partner to start a bitcoin > title loan company.
If anyone is interested PM me.
Thanks!
I can't stand it any more. I can no longer take this thread seriously.
Don't think anybody else is either. It may be time for you to lock it up.
Possibly. I have another day on this funding offer at BTCJam. Ive had a few people commit to invest, a few in this thread. So I continue to update it, so that people who are interested can learn more about our progress. Which is all that I was doing earlier, before this silly exchange of words broke out.
But since I started the funding process, I have accomplished a lot.
1. We going our wiring done this morning. Phone is working. CC terminal is operating
2. We received our latest print newspaper in the mail a few days ago
3. We have got all of our products in and inventoried in our POS system
4. We have almost all of our fixtures, just waiting on two more
5. We are opening on October 20th, with or without the additional funding.
This update and more on video broadcast via youtube; http://youtube.com/clovisstarmedia
I can't stand it any more. I can no longer take this thread seriously.
Don't think anybody else is either. It may be time for you to lock it up.
I posted this earlier. But let me be clear, I have offered risk. Several comments insist that I am offering no risk.
For one, besides giving my identity and exact location explicitly in film, and such. I have also offered tangible collateral as my risk.
ref my earlier comment
I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have, to the best of my ability. Please PM if you have any.
Thanks for your comments.
For one, besides giving my identity and exact location explicitly in film, and such. I have also offered tangible collateral as my risk.
ref my earlier comment
Quote
I have offered a lot of risk. Say for example that all that I gave was a lien on my car, and the title, in exchange for the loan.
That is still a risk, because without the title, and with a lien agreement, that car is of no monetary value to me. I can't sell a car twice, that would cause me criminal penalties. So if there was a lien on my car, and I sold it without paying off the lien, if that is even possible, I think it would catch up to someone and bite them in the ass later legally. There has to be some kind of theft or deception in that. I do know it's possible to put a lien on a vehicle, and I have offered up a vehicle, therefore I am assuming risk. Cars are not all that I have offered also, I have offered a lien on my debt free home, for a larger loan.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060830184549AAPTkOx
That is still a risk, because without the title, and with a lien agreement, that car is of no monetary value to me. I can't sell a car twice, that would cause me criminal penalties. So if there was a lien on my car, and I sold it without paying off the lien, if that is even possible, I think it would catch up to someone and bite them in the ass later legally. There has to be some kind of theft or deception in that. I do know it's possible to put a lien on a vehicle, and I have offered up a vehicle, therefore I am assuming risk. Cars are not all that I have offered also, I have offered a lien on my debt free home, for a larger loan.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060830184549AAPTkOx
I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have, to the best of my ability. Please PM if you have any.
Thanks for your comments.
Quote
IIRC the Robocoin website suggests that you have at least $20,000 "float" for each ATM and you have far from this much.
A lot of financial transaction companies are required to have a nominal bond (usually as low as $50,000), and to have between $10,000 and $50,000 in operating capital or assets. I have that no problem.
I do have a low amount of coins. Litecoin is not all that I have though. I have possibly around 4 BTC in LTC, and I also have a variety of other coins, and some bitcoin for the purpose of funding the ATM. I've actually stayed out of bitcoin investing this last year, and I have traded alts a lot more. But I trade in to bitcoin when I need to. I bought some stuff from SurvivalCampingStore.com, and bought some gift cards, so I convert alts to bitcoin in cases like that. I almost booked a flight on Expedia last week, but then my plans got cancelled, but I would have used bitcoin for it if I would have needed it.
I am starting to use bitcoin more like cash than an investment.
It's like the example of the burger joint that I used earlier. If my buddy asked me "hey man, can you lend me $5 so that I can buy a burger"? I wouldn't even think to asked him "Only if you will secure the loan with $5".
I may ask him for his lucky charm, or something. But I wouldn't loan him something, to be secured by the exact same thing. ROFL makes no sense.
I may ask him for his lucky charm, or something. But I wouldn't loan him something, to be secured by the exact same thing. ROFL makes no sense.
Your loan would be a collateral loan. If you were to take your friends money and not pay him back either by repaying him the $5 or by buying him of equal value in the future despite your ability to do so then he would probably not be friends with you anymore. Collateral does not need to be in the form of cash but does need to be something greater then the amount being borrowed.
My point the whole time is that coin is coin. I am looking at this like Litecoin is basically the same thing as bitcoin. It holds a steady value to bitcoin, and it trades into bitcoin almost effortlessly on dozens of different exchanges.
Litecoin is as close to Bitcoin, as metal coins minted by a central org is to paper coins minted by the same org. Because it converts so easily back and forth.
So if someone (anyone) wanted to borrow $5, either I am going to borrow him the money, or I may ask to hold on to a token. But I am not going to ask him for an equal amount of currency to hold on to, if he could just as easily use that currency to buy the burger.
It would be like charging him interest on his own money. Lenders earn interest based on risk. So if a lender is holding this guy's money as collateral. The bank is earning money for nothing, because the lender is charging him interest on his own money. I guess it's like one of those silly secured credit cards. Where you put money in the bank, and then borrow against it for the sole purpose of raising your credit. Im not here to increase my credit rating. I am here to get an interest based loan, where everyone wins.
But I am not going to pay interest to borrow my own money. If for example I borrowed $0.50 cents from you. You gave me two quarters, and I let you hang on to 5 dimes for me. And for this service, you would only charge me 1% interest.
WTF? Are you serious? No one is going to give you an equal amount of currency, just to pay you interest on their own money. That is the most retarded ponzi scheme that I have ever heard of.
What is this the Federal Reserve banking committee meeting? ROFL
I can't stand it any more. I can no longer take this thread seriously.
I also find it very interesting that you have a "few hundred" LTC for operating capital for bitcoin ATM. This really does not make any sense. Assuming that a few hundred means 300 then you have roughly 2.9 BTC worth of LTC, which would really not be enough to fund your ATM's operation. IIRC the Robocoin website suggests that you have at least $20,000 "float" for each ATM and you have far from this much.
I think you are catching on to #1. Why I need to borrow coin. and #2 why I prefer to borrow coin over fiat.
Yes, I need operating capital, this is what I have been telling this thread this whole time. This is the whole point! LOL
Even if you were being honest and do repay if you are able to, you are essentially taking no risks with your business as all you are putting in is "sweat equity" while putting all the risk on the lender.
I have offered a lot of risk. Say for example that all that I gave was a lien on my car, and the title, in exchange for the loan.
That is still a risk, because without the title, and with a lien agreement, that car is of no monetary value to me. I can't sell a car twice, that would cause me criminal penalties. So if there was a lien on my car, and I sold it without paying off the lien, if that is even possible, I think it would catch up to someone and bite them in the ass later legally. There has to be some kind of theft or deception in that. I do know it's possible to put a lien on a vehicle, and I have offered up a vehicle, therefore I am assuming risk. Cars are not all that I have offered also, I have offered a lien on my debt free home, for a larger loan.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060830184549AAPTkOx
It's like the example of the burger joint that I used earlier. If my buddy asked me "hey man, can you lend me $5 so that I can buy a burger"? I wouldn't even think to asked him "Only if you will secure the loan with $5".
I may ask him for his lucky charm, or something. But I wouldn't loan him something, to be secured by the exact same thing. ROFL makes no sense.
Your loan would be a collateral loan. If you were to take your friends money and not pay him back either by repaying him the $5 or by buying him of equal value in the future despite your ability to do so then he would probably not be friends with you anymore. Collateral does not need to be in the form of cash but does need to be something greater then the amount being borrowed.I may ask him for his lucky charm, or something. But I wouldn't loan him something, to be secured by the exact same thing. ROFL makes no sense.
I also find it very interesting that you have a "few hundred" LTC for operating capital for bitcoin ATM. This really does not make any sense. Assuming that a few hundred means 300 then you have roughly 2.9 BTC worth of LTC, which would really not be enough to fund your ATM's operation. IIRC the Robocoin website suggests that you have at least $20,000 "float" for each ATM and you have far from this much.
Even if you were being honest and do repay if you are able to, you are essentially taking no risks with your business as all you are putting in is "sweat equity" while putting all the risk on the lender.
I think of it like this maybe.
My buddy and I are at the burger joint, and he said "Hey man, can you lend me $5 so that I can buy a burger".
Then I reply "Do you have $5 to secure that loan with".
My buddy says "well ya, but I was going to use this for gas.. But ok, here's my $5. Now can I borrow my $5 back so I can buy a hamburger".
Then I say "Ya sure, here's your $5 back, now I will charge you interest on this until you pay me back".
Why didn't my friend just keep his $5? Hmmmm. Maybe he just wanted to pay me interest on his own money, as a friendly gesture?
LOL this is getting beyond the drunk ass silly level of stupid. Im not going to pay you interest on my own freakin money! LOL What kind of ponzi scheme is that?
My buddy and I are at the burger joint, and he said "Hey man, can you lend me $5 so that I can buy a burger".
Then I reply "Do you have $5 to secure that loan with".
My buddy says "well ya, but I was going to use this for gas.. But ok, here's my $5. Now can I borrow my $5 back so I can buy a hamburger".
Then I say "Ya sure, here's your $5 back, now I will charge you interest on this until you pay me back".
Why didn't my friend just keep his $5? Hmmmm. Maybe he just wanted to pay me interest on his own money, as a friendly gesture?
LOL this is getting beyond the drunk ass silly level of stupid. Im not going to pay you interest on my own freakin money! LOL What kind of ponzi scheme is that?
And to slu2 I think your a great entrepreneur and fair play to you, wishing you all the best with your business
Thanks! It's been a great ride so far!
I challenge anyone who doubts my identity to drop in at 4100 Yellowstone Ave, Suite B, Pocatello ID 83202
Im not hiding!
Jump to: