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Topic: lol: blockchain - yes; bitcoin - no - page 2. (Read 3152 times)

member
Activity: 78
Merit: 11
July 23, 2015, 12:48:44 AM
#48
This is the third story today by someone who asserts their brilliance by saying: "we are interested in blockchain; bitcoin not so much".  It is meant to show you are a bigshot if you can put forth another version of this over-used line.  
Here is one: http://www.cityam.com/220231/why-i-chose-float-fintech-business-london

Here is another: c-touts-blockchain-tech-for-trade-finance/

It reminds me of the time an English man was explaining to his son on an airplane that: 'it is the wings that makes the airplane fly'.  I immediately thought - it's the fucking engine that makes it fly - and the rudder too, and the cockpit too, and the pilot too.  Even the landing gear - although I'd have to argue the landing gear makes it fly again.

There isn't such thing as Bitcoin or blockchain.  Bitcoin includes a blockchain and a bunch of other stuff. Go ahead, try to make your blockchain without some bitcoin behind it.  Let's see where that will get you.  

People need to quit showing how smart they are by expressing their keen interest in the 'blockchain' while at the same time saying 'bitcoin' isn't so interesting.  All this really does is show you don't understand cryptocurrency.  There is not blockchain without bitcoin.  

The Blockchain is beautiful technology.  The Bitcoin network is the greatest example of this beautiful technology in action.  However not all applications of the Blockchain will be in the public sphere, for example Western Union might create a Blockchain where their 'Public' ledger is located within their country HQ nodes.  Banks might create a Blockchain for storing customers accounts, the nodes are located in each regional headquarters (or even in each bank branch!). 

The point is there really are good applications for the blockchain outside the Bitcoin network.  We should not feel threatened by these, they are not applications as they are not competing with Bitcoin which is a cryptocurrency in the public domain.

Bitcoin is strong not only because of its network but because its technology has not been disproven.  I personally welcome any private companies investing in R&D in the blockchain as it only benefits us all in the end.

BTW your aeroplane analogy doesn't fly with me, the Bitcoin network could be represented by the the airports and flight routes which you didn't mention, the rest is all part of the Blockchain.

There's no need to invest ridiculous amount of money on your own blockchain if you want a different behavior, you just use side-chains once properly implemented so everything stays within the Bitcoin security.

where exactly are the ridiculous amounts of money being spent?  a bank can implement their own blockchain by deploying a server in each region.  they can mine with the server CPU because it is not an arms race to get more hashing power.  with this small Blockchain network they can store all customers transactions in a decentralized and secure fashion.  Remember the 51% attack is based on a percent of hashing power, all bank nodes can mine on CPUs to secure the network like we once did.

I think too many people are fixated on the Bitcoin Blockchain as the solution for everything.  For internal applications where there is no hashing power arms race, creating a new network is a perfectly good application of the technology.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
July 22, 2015, 09:27:07 AM
#47
This is the third story today by someone who asserts their brilliance by saying: "we are interested in blockchain; bitcoin not so much".  It is meant to show you are a bigshot if you can put forth another version of this over-used line.  
Here is one: http://www.cityam.com/220231/why-i-chose-float-fintech-business-london

Here is another: c-touts-blockchain-tech-for-trade-finance/

It reminds me of the time an English man was explaining to his son on an airplane that: 'it is the wings that makes the airplane fly'.  I immediately thought - it's the fucking engine that makes it fly - and the rudder too, and the cockpit too, and the pilot too.  Even the landing gear - although I'd have to argue the landing gear makes it fly again.

There isn't such thing as Bitcoin or blockchain.  Bitcoin includes a blockchain and a bunch of other stuff. Go ahead, try to make your blockchain without some bitcoin behind it.  Let's see where that will get you.  

People need to quit showing how smart they are by expressing their keen interest in the 'blockchain' while at the same time saying 'bitcoin' isn't so interesting.  All this really does is show you don't understand cryptocurrency.  There is not blockchain without bitcoin.  

The Blockchain is beautiful technology.  The Bitcoin network is the greatest example of this beautiful technology in action.  However not all applications of the Blockchain will be in the public sphere, for example Western Union might create a Blockchain where their 'Public' ledger is located within their country HQ nodes.  Banks might create a Blockchain for storing customers accounts, the nodes are located in each regional headquarters (or even in each bank branch!). 

The point is there really are good applications for the blockchain outside the Bitcoin network.  We should not feel threatened by these, they are not applications as they are not competing with Bitcoin which is a cryptocurrency in the public domain.

Bitcoin is strong not only because of its network but because its technology has not been disproven.  I personally welcome any private companies investing in R&D in the blockchain as it only benefits us all in the end.

BTW your aeroplane analogy doesn't fly with me, the Bitcoin network could be represented by the the airports and flight routes which you didn't mention, the rest is all part of the Blockchain.

There's no need to invest ridiculous amount of money on your own blockchain if you want a different behavior, you just use side-chains once properly implemented so everything stays within the Bitcoin security.
member
Activity: 78
Merit: 11
July 22, 2015, 09:19:39 AM
#46
This is the third story today by someone who asserts their brilliance by saying: "we are interested in blockchain; bitcoin not so much".  It is meant to show you are a bigshot if you can put forth another version of this over-used line.  
Here is one: http://www.cityam.com/220231/why-i-chose-float-fintech-business-london

Here is another: c-touts-blockchain-tech-for-trade-finance/

It reminds me of the time an English man was explaining to his son on an airplane that: 'it is the wings that makes the airplane fly'.  I immediately thought - it's the fucking engine that makes it fly - and the rudder too, and the cockpit too, and the pilot too.  Even the landing gear - although I'd have to argue the landing gear makes it fly again.

There isn't such thing as Bitcoin or blockchain.  Bitcoin includes a blockchain and a bunch of other stuff. Go ahead, try to make your blockchain without some bitcoin behind it.  Let's see where that will get you.  

People need to quit showing how smart they are by expressing their keen interest in the 'blockchain' while at the same time saying 'bitcoin' isn't so interesting.  All this really does is show you don't understand cryptocurrency.  There is not blockchain without bitcoin.  

The Blockchain is beautiful technology.  The Bitcoin network is the greatest example of this beautiful technology in action.  However not all applications of the Blockchain will be in the public sphere, for example Western Union might create a Blockchain where their 'Public' ledger is located within their country HQ nodes.  Banks might create a Blockchain for storing customers accounts, the nodes are located in each regional headquarters (or even in each bank branch!). 

The point is there really are good applications for the blockchain outside the Bitcoin network.  We should not feel threatened by these, they are not applications as they are not competing with Bitcoin which is a cryptocurrency in the public domain.

Bitcoin is strong not only because of its network but because its technology has not been disproven.  I personally welcome any private companies investing in R&D in the blockchain as it only benefits us all in the end.

BTW your aeroplane analogy doesn't fly with me, the Bitcoin network could be represented by the the airports and flight routes which you didn't mention, the rest is all part of the Blockchain.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1002
July 22, 2015, 06:54:13 AM
#45
I think blockchain is the most Popular wallet for newcomers and for old trendy guys , even i use blockchain wallet , the things is that its much easy to get one wallet and it even works on 25Kb/s internet speed.
I think blockchain wallet will be enchanced in future to beat new ones ,  Legends are Legends !


Personally i use coinbase, but since i have a good interenet connection i havent tested it yet in a slow connection if it is fine.
But would like the blockchain itself to be updated soon.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
~ScapeGoat~
July 22, 2015, 05:45:54 AM
#44
I think blockchain is the most Popular wallet for newcomers and for old trendy guys , even i use blockchain wallet , the things is that its much easy to get one wallet and it even works on 25Kb/s internet speed.
I think blockchain wallet will be enchanced in future to beat new ones ,  Legends are Legends !
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
www.bitcart.io
July 22, 2015, 05:41:14 AM
#43
I understand what you mean OP. "blockchain" has become a buzzword now and meaningless like the word "disruptive". I believe that people who are dismissive of bitcoin and favour blockchain probably know little about either of them.

I do believe that blockchain will outlive bitcoin though. there is more uses for it than a single currency.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
July 22, 2015, 03:54:13 AM
#42
Monero/DASH/insert anon coin may not be as relevant in the "real" world, but it could revolutionize the way money laundering, tax evasion, hiding assets, black markets etc work. So it might have a much smaller userbase, but all of those are potentially trillion dollar markets.

I don't see Monero succeeding if bitcoin fails. But if bitcoin goes mainstream, and people start to readily accept non-government backed online currencies, then I believe it is inevitable that such activities will also move to crypto; and it will be an anon coin rather than bitcoin.
I really don't care about things that are going to revolutionize illegal actions and neither should you. It wouldn't surprise me if something bad happens related to Monero or DASH and the US goes after its creators. We have way too many coins as it is now. If everyone who ever worked on altcoins or contributed to them had done that to Bitcoin only, we would already be living in the age of digital currency.
They're just leeching off of Bitcoin, nothing else.
black listed or not, those coins will find always a use for some people, they are here to stay no matter what happens to bitcoin, because they offer something that for someone is valuable alot and that bitcoin does not serve in a successful way, privacy and anonymity

those coins can become obsolete only if sidechain will promise the same anonimity via zerocoin or darkwallet
Good luck avoiding legal actions against you for using them. Sidechains aren't designed for anonymity, but for transaction scale-ability. They just supposed to exponentially increase the amount of transactions that the network can handle. However, there could be some anonymity involved when exchanging BTC -> Sidechain -> BTC.
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 1070
July 22, 2015, 03:49:09 AM
#41
Yeah, thats what Monero fanboys (or some of them) seem to not get. Monero will never be as big (let alone bigger, lol) than Bitcoin. Why? its simple, its super anonymous-only features give no chances at being transparent. This kills a large base of users and uses. Plus Bitcoin is king in all that matters: network strenght, adoption, network effect in general... which is all that matters, even more than who has got the best-ever technology.
Also, what people do not realize that if Bitcoin was completely anonymous it would have never been legalized. I'm pretty sure that even if Monero grows, it is going on the black list pretty quick (unfortunately).
I'm not saying that this will kill Monero, but it is definitely going to prevent it from taking a grasp at a larger user base.
However, Bitcoin seems to be in the middle of everything. It is partially anonymous, not too fast, not too slow; with a few upgrades here and there it could be considered almost perfect (for our time).  
Monero/DASH/insert anon coin may not be as relevant in the "real" world, but it could revolutionize the way money laundering, tax evasion, hiding assets, black markets etc work. So it might have a much smaller userbase, but all of those are potentially trillion dollar markets.

I don't see Monero succeeding if bitcoin fails. But if bitcoin goes mainstream, and people start to readily accept non-government backed online currencies, then I believe it is inevitable that such activities will also move to crypto; and it will be an anon coin rather than bitcoin.

black listed or not, those coins will find always a use for some people, they are here to stay no matter what happens to bitcoin, because they offer something that for someone is valuable a lot and that bitcoin does not serve in a successful way, privacy and anonymity

those coins can become obsolete only if sidechain will promise the same anonimity via zerocoin or darkwallet
hero member
Activity: 576
Merit: 503
July 21, 2015, 10:32:42 PM
#40
They can make an altcoin and voila, they'll have a blockchain.
But there's no stronger blockchain than Bitcoin's. And if that's advertised enough, organizations will come for the blockchain and will have to use bitcoin for that.



For the moment, the bitcoin blockchain is the most 'used' and it is the most secure but like I said "for the moment". However it is normal that in the future someone will build something better than the actual bitcoin (this is obvious... technology).

You mean like they built a better gold for thousands of years? Not proof, but that makes your argument pretty weak and makes bitcoin look more likely to last.
bad argument. Because gold is gold, it's just defined that way. If you improve it, it'll be something different. You can't build a better gold, it's a matter of semantics.

However, in a sense, bitcoin is a "better gold".

Your argument is like saying "you can't build a better bitcoin than bitcoin". It's a useless statement. But you can most certainly build a blockchain better than the bitcoin blockchain, just as you can build a computer better than the first commercial PCs.

It's still a computer tho. Just improved.
I took the OP's statement to mean he thought something radically different would replace bitcoin (and soonish). Gold is a good argument to counter that. Not 100% proof (as I said), of course.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
July 21, 2015, 10:13:08 PM
#39
They can make an altcoin and voila, they'll have a blockchain.
But there's no stronger blockchain than Bitcoin's. And if that's advertised enough, organizations will come for the blockchain and will have to use bitcoin for that.



For the moment, the bitcoin blockchain is the most 'used' and it is the most secure but like I said "for the moment". However it is normal that in the future someone will build something better than the actual bitcoin (this is obvious... technology).

You mean like they built a better gold for thousands of years? Not proof, but that makes your argument pretty weak and makes bitcoin look more likely to last.
bad argument. Because gold is gold, it's just defined that way. If you improve it, it'll be something different. You can't build a better gold, it's a matter of semantics.

However, in a sense, bitcoin is a "better gold".

Your argument is like saying "you can't build a better bitcoin than bitcoin". It's a useless statement. But you can most certainly build a blockchain better than the bitcoin blockchain, just as you can build a computer better than the first commercial PCs.
hero member
Activity: 576
Merit: 503
July 21, 2015, 10:05:19 PM
#38
They can make an altcoin and voila, they'll have a blockchain.
But there's no stronger blockchain than Bitcoin's. And if that's advertised enough, organizations will come for the blockchain and will have to use bitcoin for that.



For the moment, the bitcoin blockchain is the most 'used' and it is the most secure but like I said "for the moment". However it is normal that in the future someone will build something better than the actual bitcoin (this is obvious... technology).

You mean like they built a better gold for thousands of years? Not proof, but that makes your argument pretty weak and makes bitcoin look more likely to last.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
July 21, 2015, 08:52:15 PM
#37
Yeah, thats what Monero fanboys (or some of them) seem to not get. Monero will never be as big (let alone bigger, lol) than Bitcoin. Why? its simple, its super anonymous-only features give no chances at being transparent. This kills a large base of users and uses. Plus Bitcoin is king in all that matters: network strenght, adoption, network effect in general... which is all that matters, even more than who has got the best-ever technology.
Also, what people do not realize that if Bitcoin was completely anonymous it would have never been legalized. I'm pretty sure that even if Monero grows, it is going on the black list pretty quick (unfortunately).
I'm not saying that this will kill Monero, but it is definitely going to prevent it from taking a grasp at a larger user base.
However, Bitcoin seems to be in the middle of everything. It is partially anonymous, not too fast, not too slow; with a few upgrades here and there it could be considered almost perfect (for our time).  
Monero/DASH/insert anon coin may not be as relevant in the "real" world, but it could revolutionize the way money laundering, tax evasion, hiding assets, black markets etc work. So it might have a much smaller userbase, but all of those are potentially trillion dollar markets.

I don't see Monero succeeding if bitcoin fails. But if bitcoin goes mainstream, and people start to readily accept non-government backed online currencies, then I believe it is inevitable that such activities will also move to crypto; and it will be an anon coin rather than bitcoin.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
error
July 21, 2015, 07:46:34 PM
#36
"Blockchain" refers to any blockchain, doesn't have to be THE Bitcoin blockchain. It is fair for people to say they are interested in blockchain technology and not bitcoin. I don't think they meant to offend bitcoin users.

Altcoins uses their own blockchain and businesses can create their own blockchain if they want. Their view of a secure blockchain is very different to ours. They want a blockchain they can secure and control, Bitcoin's blockchain is out of their control, so insecure to them.

but people claim that bitcoin blockchain is the most secure and reliable due to the huge amount of users.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
July 21, 2015, 07:19:11 PM
#35
"Blockchain" refers to any blockchain, doesn't have to be THE Bitcoin blockchain. It is fair for people to say they are interested in blockchain technology and not bitcoin. I don't think they meant to offend bitcoin users.

Altcoins uses their own blockchain and businesses can create their own blockchain if they want. Their view of a secure blockchain is very different to ours. They want a blockchain they can secure and control, Bitcoin's blockchain is out of their control, so insecure to them.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1002
July 21, 2015, 03:17:39 PM
#34
Yeah, thats what Monero fanboys (or some of them) seem to not get. Monero will never be as big (let alone bigger, lol) than Bitcoin. Why? its simple, its super anonymous-only features give no chances at being transparent. This kills a large base of users and uses. Plus Bitcoin is king in all that matters: network strenght, adoption, network effect in general... which is all that matters, even more than who has got the best-ever technology.
Also, what people do not realize that if Bitcoin was completely anonymous it would have never been legalized. I'm pretty sure that even if Monero grows, it is going on the black list pretty quick (unfortunately).
I'm not saying that this will kill Monero, but it is definitely going to prevent it from taking a grasp at a larger user base.
However, Bitcoin seems to be in the middle of everything. It is partially anonymous, not too fast, not too slow; with a few upgrades here and there it could be considered almost perfect (for our time). 

Well bitcoin is not completely anonymous, you are right, i see many websites require lots of information if you want to buy some bitcoins
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
July 21, 2015, 10:04:06 AM
#33
Yeah, thats what Monero fanboys (or some of them) seem to not get. Monero will never be as big (let alone bigger, lol) than Bitcoin. Why? its simple, its super anonymous-only features give no chances at being transparent. This kills a large base of users and uses. Plus Bitcoin is king in all that matters: network strenght, adoption, network effect in general... which is all that matters, even more than who has got the best-ever technology.
Also, what people do not realize that if Bitcoin was completely anonymous it would have never been legalized. I'm pretty sure that even if Monero grows, it is going on the black list pretty quick (unfortunately).
I'm not saying that this will kill Monero, but it is definitely going to prevent it from taking a grasp at a larger user base.
However, Bitcoin seems to be in the middle of everything. It is partially anonymous, not too fast, not too slow; with a few upgrades here and there it could be considered almost perfect (for our time).  
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1028
July 21, 2015, 10:00:16 AM
#32
They can make an altcoin and voila, they'll have a blockchain.
But there's no stronger blockchain than Bitcoin's. And if that's advertised enough, organizations will come for the blockchain and will have to use bitcoin for that.

why bitcoin blockchain is safer than monero blockchain?
The network security behind bitcoin is 360,540,831.57 GH/s, that is a lot more than monero and that is why it is safer.

only because it has more users NOW. but in the future...
Dude this is why someone asked if monero should be censored on this forum because you guys are like cultist, MONERO WILL NEVER OVERTAKE BITCOIN. You can think I am crazy all you want but let me tell you I think you're crazy. Just look at the increase in hashrate per month at both coins and tell me which number is bigger.
Yeah, thats what Monero fanboys (or some of them) seem to not get. Monero will never be as big (let alone bigger, lol) than Bitcoin. Why? its simple, its super anonymous-only features give no chances at being transparent. This kills a large base of users and uses. Plus Bitcoin is king in all that matters: network strenght, adoption, network effect in general... which is all that matters, even more than who has got the best-ever technology.
hero member
Activity: 584
Merit: 500
July 21, 2015, 09:35:14 AM
#31
It is just me or to everyone here, blockchain is working good? I got a payment fast really fast confirmation !!!

All my tx are fine as well.
95% of the complaints are likely troll or shill accounts. Seems to be getting worse lately on this forum.

Maybe when you don't have a clue don't claim you know what's going on. You can see here https://blockchain.info/de/unconfirmed-transactions that the amount of unconfirmed transactions is back to a normal level. It was 10 times that high for many days when the network was spammed. And yes, that led to transactions, that had low fees, not getting through. They work now again with low fees but they could stuck for days when you would have send them some days ago.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
July 20, 2015, 09:43:41 PM
#30
The truth is, you can have blockchains without a bitcoin (or altcoin). How useful it'll be is debatable.  There was a really good discussion on this subject on AVC yesterday.

sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
July 20, 2015, 05:38:29 PM
#29
Amen. It really bugs me when companies say use this term. Even if you are using the blockchain to save information, you are using Bitcoin tokens to process and publish the info.
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