Looking like the ZEC party is over - page 5.

Amph

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Quote from: h311m4n on November 22, 2016, 04:13:58 AM

Quote from: adaseb on November 21, 2016, 09:19:44 PM

The problem is that there are WAY TOO MANY Tom, Dick, and Harrys that are getting involved with mining.

First they start off with 1 GPU and make money, and then next month they get an entire rig, and in 3 months they max out their house's power by filling it up with 30-40 GPUs.

All this causes the difficulty to rise, and makes mining very unprofitable for everybody.

Right now ETH + ZEC miners revenue daily is slightly below $600,000. Which means for constant profit with constant difficulty there needs to be $600,000 of buyers of ZEC + ETH to keep everything stable.

I also think if BTC breaks the all time barrier of ~$1100 or so then it will be a great time for mining in general. But I am worried like most here and that 2017 will become like 2015 with mining being hardly profitable.

It's just part of the game, I've been mining for a few months only myself, but in the process I've learned quite a few things in trading and hardware optimization, it's been really fun. Also, most home miners don't have immense budgets and end up with maybe 2-3 rigs max, I doubt that this really makes that much of a difference against farms with hundreds of rigs.

i think you are wrong, those average joe, are not 1-2 person, they are hundred/thousand, so thounsand of random guys with 1-3 rig, will make a difference for sure

adaseb

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Quote from: h311m4n on November 22, 2016, 04:13:58 AM

-Less global hashrate means less computing power for many altcoins which in return would likely also mean less value for the coins themselves. ETH sure as hell wouldn't be what it is today without miners, same goes for the entire altcoin scene
-Less miners also would likely push most altcoins to PoS rapidly which would render mining useless anyway

I don't think more global hashrate makes the coin more valuable, if anything it makes it less valueable because people need to dump the coin to pay for electricity and GPUs.

Most miners never hold the coin or buy more of it, they just dump and profit. That's why ETH wants to move to POS to avoid this because it kills the coins value.

h311m4n

sr. member

Activity: 487

Merit: 266

Quote from: adaseb on November 21, 2016, 09:19:44 PM

The problem is that there are WAY TOO MANY Tom, Dick, and Harrys that are getting involved with mining.

First they start off with 1 GPU and make money, and then next month they get an entire rig, and in 3 months they max out their house's power by filling it up with 30-40 GPUs.

All this causes the difficulty to rise, and makes mining very unprofitable for everybody.

Right now ETH + ZEC miners revenue daily is slightly below $600,000. Which means for constant profit with constant difficulty there needs to be $600,000 of buyers of ZEC + ETH to keep everything stable.

I also think if BTC breaks the all time barrier of ~$1100 or so then it will be a great time for mining in general. But I am worried like most here and that 2017 will become like 2015 with mining being hardly profitable.

I don't disagree with you, but you can't blame the average Joe for thinking "Woohoo, free money" *homer voice*

It's just part of the game, I've been mining for a few months only myself, but in the process I've learned quite a few things in trading and hardware optimization, it's been really fun. Also, most home miners don't have immense budgets and end up with maybe 2-3 rigs max, I doubt that this really makes that much of a difference against farms with hundreds of rigs.

You're going with the assumption that if less people were mining, it would be better for everyone, but imo this isn't true for 2 reasons:

-Less global hashrate means less computing power for many altcoins which in return would likely also mean less value for the coins themselves. ETH sure as hell wouldn't be what it is today without miners, same goes for the entire altcoin scene
-Less miners also would likely push most altcoins to PoS rapidly which would render mining useless anyway

olcaytu2005

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Quote from: adaseb on November 21, 2016, 09:19:44 PM

The problem is that there are WAY TOO MANY Tom, Dick, and Harrys that are getting involved with mining.

First they start off with 1 GPU and make money, and then next month they get an entire rig, and in 3 months they max out their house's power by filling it up with 30-40 GPUs.

All this causes the difficulty to rise, and makes mining very unprofitable for everybody.

Right now ETH + ZEC miners revenue daily is slightly below $600,000. Which means for constant profit with constant difficulty there needs to be $600,000 of buyers of ZEC + ETH to keep everything stable.

I also think if BTC breaks the all time barrier of ~$1100 or so then it will be a great time for mining in general. But I am worried like most here and that 2017 will become like 2015 with mining being hardly profitable.

I made the most profit on q1 and q2 of 2015 where I mined ninja coins. Maybe it will be hardly profitable for those who mine steady.

philipma1957

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Activity: 4326

Merit: 8950

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: adaseb on November 21, 2016, 09:19:44 PM

The problem is that there are WAY TOO MANY Tom, Dick, and Harrys that are getting involved with mining.

First they start off with 1 GPU and make money, and then next month they get an entire rig, and in 3 months they max out their house's power by filling it up with 30-40 GPUs.

All this causes the difficulty to rise, and makes mining very unprofitable for everybody.

Right now ETH + ZEC miners revenue daily is slightly below $600,000. Which means for constant profit with constant difficulty there needs to be $600,000 of buyers of ZEC + ETH to keep everything stable.

I also think if BTC breaks the all time barrier of ~$1100 or so then it will be a great time for mining in general. But I am worried like most here and that 2017 will become like 2015 with mining being hardly profitable.

You are lumping Zec with under 4,000,000 market cap with eth which has an 750,000,000 plus market cap.

Feeding cash to prop up Zec is easy and cheap.

Feeding cash to prop up eth is a lot more costly.

Right now I estimate 25,000,000 in gear is Mining Zec.

I have said it once and I will say it again. Sellers of gpus, CPUs , mobos , atx power supplies , ram can easily prop up Zec price. They would need to feed much more money to do this with eth.

I see Zec hanging in there for at least another six months. Once a lot of,coins are mined it could fade.

adaseb

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Activity: 3808

Merit: 1723

The problem is that there are WAY TOO MANY Tom, Dick, and Harrys that are getting involved with mining.

First they start off with 1 GPU and make money, and then next month they get an entire rig, and in 3 months they max out their house's power by filling it up with 30-40 GPUs.

All this causes the difficulty to rise, and makes mining very unprofitable for everybody.

Right now ETH + ZEC miners revenue daily is slightly below $600,000. Which means for constant profit with constant difficulty there needs to be $600,000 of buyers of ZEC + ETH to keep everything stable.

I also think if BTC breaks the all time barrier of ~$1100 or so then it will be a great time for mining in general. But I am worried like most here and that 2017 will become like 2015 with mining being hardly profitable.

jstefanop

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Activity: 2174

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Quote from: h311m4n on November 21, 2016, 10:02:14 AM

But it's a good thing if people are leaving ZEC mining for ETH, this might bring the price up a little, who knows.

The price will never go up on this coin for a very long time. This was the first coin in a while that didn't have a huge pre-mine and started with zero on day one. People forget that when Bitcoin/Litecoin came out, there were millions of coins minted before people became of aware/mass adaption started. At that point each block added was like .00001% of total supply...right now each block added by ZEC is like .1% so as long as people think the value of ZEC is 4million, the price will always be pushed down by a fast rate.

This wont change for at least a year or two...when ZEC supplies reach into the millions.

topgeek

member

Activity: 96

Merit: 10

Quote from: QuintLeo on November 20, 2016, 09:48:35 PM

Quote from: olcaytu2005 on November 20, 2016, 07:34:15 PM

Nothing behind for ether either, its potential is honestly bigger than any crypto out there. Wink

I am very strongly reminded of the Beta vs VHS wars - Beta was hands down technicall superior, but VHS was "good enough" and far better marketed and had much more widespread adoption and support, so Beta died after some years of competition.

So using the logic - the coin that will win is the one that the porn industry gets behind (the real reason VHS one) Cheesy

cheers

Navihawk

newbie

Activity: 15

Merit: 0

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 21, 2016, 09:23:59 AM

Quote from: h311m4n on November 21, 2016, 09:18:00 AM

Quote from: Satlite on November 21, 2016, 09:01:24 AM

Quote from: Amph on November 21, 2016, 08:11:53 AM

even if a pump will happen it will only last not enough to make the profitability great again for a long time like it was with early this year, i think there is too much power hashing right now, too many gpu and still being added

we need a reset to remove some miners from the scene, bad times are good for this reason to restart again with less hash over all the coins combined

but yes the one thing that make me think that there can be another good pump, is the fact that bitcoin is very high in value, and in 2015 bitcoin was in a bad condition

usually this is a good traction for some alt to get pumped to a high level

I agree with that totally. I found the total hash of the Ethereum and the ZCash is still increasing and fast.

Hmmm, actually it's lower than before and seems to be slowing down already:

http://www.coinwarz.com/network-hashrate-charts/zcash-network-hashrate-chart

I beat all my records by mining 0.01 in 20 minutes earlier today ^^

Some have drifted to ETH

I have earned .275 zed today. there are about 8 ½ hours left I could earn .37 - .40 ZEC today

I kinda drifted off to Monero and Internet of Everything for now, probably going to switch from IOE to ETH after the premine is over.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4326

Merit: 8950

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: h311m4n on November 21, 2016, 10:02:14 AM

Quote from: Gastotade on November 21, 2016, 09:33:21 AM

Quote from: h311m4n on November 21, 2016, 09:29:56 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 21, 2016, 09:23:59 AM

Quote from: h311m4n on November 21, 2016, 09:18:00 AM

Quote from: Satlite on November 21, 2016, 09:01:24 AM

Quote from: Amph on November 21, 2016, 08:11:53 AM

even if a pump will happen it will only last not enough to make the profitability great again for a long time like it was with early this year, i think there is too much power hashing right now, too many gpu and still being added

we need a reset to remove some miners from the scene, bad times are good for this reason to restart again with less hash over all the coins combined

but yes the one thing that make me think that there can be another good pump, is the fact that bitcoin is very high in value, and in 2015 bitcoin was in a bad condition

usually this is a good traction for some alt to get pumped to a high level

I agree with that totally. I found the total hash of the Ethereum and the ZCash is still increasing and fast.

Hmmm, actually it's lower than before and seems to be slowing down already:

http://www.coinwarz.com/network-hashrate-charts/zcash-network-hashrate-chart

I beat all my records by mining 0.01 in 20 minutes earlier today ^^

Some have drifted to ETH

I have earned .275 zed today. there are about 8 ½ hours left I could earn .37 - .40 ZEC today

Not bad. I think that people moving back to ETH is a good thing, more ZEC mined per day for us means we can hold on a bit longer...

That might not last long. If it is more profitable to mine ZEC., miners will come back to mine the ZEC.

Well, that's the thing. I'm still mining ZEC because I achieve 1600H/s for 1245W, that's about 0.77W/H because I optimized my rigs properly. I think many miners aren't modding their cards because they don't know how to, don't have the time to or just don't care and they end up with high wattage, so mining a coin that looses about 10% of its value every day quickly becomes a waste of electricity. So, unless ZEC gets to twice the price of ETH in terms of what you mine per day, people might come back indeed.

But it's a good thing if people are leaving ZEC mining for ETH, this might bring the price up a little, who knows.

Also, the hype is over, everybody's had a laugh, made a few bucks and is returning to ETH because ETH is more stable and has all sorts of projects going on (mind you, ETH dropped to 9.5$ not long ago). Nobody takes ZEC seriously anymore (whether they are right or wrong, this I don't know).

like you I am at .75-.80 watts per h so I am sticking with Zec at the moment.

h311m4n

sr. member

Activity: 487

Merit: 266

Quote from: Gastotade on November 21, 2016, 09:33:21 AM

Quote from: h311m4n on November 21, 2016, 09:29:56 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 21, 2016, 09:23:59 AM

Quote from: h311m4n on November 21, 2016, 09:18:00 AM

Quote from: Satlite on November 21, 2016, 09:01:24 AM

Quote from: Amph on November 21, 2016, 08:11:53 AM

even if a pump will happen it will only last not enough to make the profitability great again for a long time like it was with early this year, i think there is too much power hashing right now, too many gpu and still being added

we need a reset to remove some miners from the scene, bad times are good for this reason to restart again with less hash over all the coins combined

but yes the one thing that make me think that there can be another good pump, is the fact that bitcoin is very high in value, and in 2015 bitcoin was in a bad condition

usually this is a good traction for some alt to get pumped to a high level

I agree with that totally. I found the total hash of the Ethereum and the ZCash is still increasing and fast.

Hmmm, actually it's lower than before and seems to be slowing down already:

http://www.coinwarz.com/network-hashrate-charts/zcash-network-hashrate-chart

I beat all my records by mining 0.01 in 20 minutes earlier today ^^

Some have drifted to ETH

I have earned .275 zed today. there are about 8 ½ hours left I could earn .37 - .40 ZEC today

Not bad. I think that people moving back to ETH is a good thing, more ZEC mined per day for us means we can hold on a bit longer...

That might not last long. If it is more profitable to mine ZEC., miners will come back to mine the ZEC.

Well, that's the thing. I'm still mining ZEC because I achieve 1600H/s for 1245W, that's about 0.77W/H because I optimized my rigs properly. I think many miners aren't modding their cards because they don't know how to, don't have the time to or just don't care and they end up with high wattage, so mining a coin that looses about 10% of its value every day quickly becomes a waste of electricity. So, unless ZEC gets to twice the price of ETH in terms of what you mine per day, people might come back indeed.

But it's a good thing if people are leaving ZEC mining for ETH, this might bring the price up a little, who knows.

Also, the hype is over, everybody's had a laugh, made a few bucks and is returning to ETH because ETH is more stable and has all sorts of projects going on (mind you, ETH dropped to 9.5$ not long ago). Nobody takes ZEC seriously anymore (whether they are right or wrong, this I don't know).

Gastotade

sr. member

Activity: 545

Merit: 250

Colletrix - Bridging the Physical and Virtual Worl

Quote from: h311m4n on November 21, 2016, 09:29:56 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 21, 2016, 09:23:59 AM

Quote from: h311m4n on November 21, 2016, 09:18:00 AM

Quote from: Satlite on November 21, 2016, 09:01:24 AM

Quote from: Amph on November 21, 2016, 08:11:53 AM

even if a pump will happen it will only last not enough to make the profitability great again for a long time like it was with early this year, i think there is too much power hashing right now, too many gpu and still being added

we need a reset to remove some miners from the scene, bad times are good for this reason to restart again with less hash over all the coins combined

but yes the one thing that make me think that there can be another good pump, is the fact that bitcoin is very high in value, and in 2015 bitcoin was in a bad condition

usually this is a good traction for some alt to get pumped to a high level

I agree with that totally. I found the total hash of the Ethereum and the ZCash is still increasing and fast.

Hmmm, actually it's lower than before and seems to be slowing down already:

http://www.coinwarz.com/network-hashrate-charts/zcash-network-hashrate-chart

I beat all my records by mining 0.01 in 20 minutes earlier today ^^

Some have drifted to ETH

I have earned .275 zed today. there are about 8 ½ hours left I could earn .37 - .40 ZEC today

Not bad. I think that people moving back to ETH is a good thing, more ZEC mined per day for us means we can hold on a bit longer...

That might not last long. If it is more profitable to mine ZEC., miners will come back to mine the ZEC.

h311m4n

sr. member

Activity: 487

Merit: 266

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 21, 2016, 09:23:59 AM

Quote from: h311m4n on November 21, 2016, 09:18:00 AM

Quote from: Satlite on November 21, 2016, 09:01:24 AM

Quote from: Amph on November 21, 2016, 08:11:53 AM

even if a pump will happen it will only last not enough to make the profitability great again for a long time like it was with early this year, i think there is too much power hashing right now, too many gpu and still being added

we need a reset to remove some miners from the scene, bad times are good for this reason to restart again with less hash over all the coins combined

but yes the one thing that make me think that there can be another good pump, is the fact that bitcoin is very high in value, and in 2015 bitcoin was in a bad condition

usually this is a good traction for some alt to get pumped to a high level

I agree with that totally. I found the total hash of the Ethereum and the ZCash is still increasing and fast.

Hmmm, actually it's lower than before and seems to be slowing down already:

http://www.coinwarz.com/network-hashrate-charts/zcash-network-hashrate-chart

I beat all my records by mining 0.01 in 20 minutes earlier today ^^

Some have drifted to ETH

I have earned .275 zed today. there are about 8 ½ hours left I could earn .37 - .40 ZEC today

Not bad. I think that people moving back to ETH is a good thing, more ZEC mined per day for us means we can hold on a bit longer...

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4326

Merit: 8950

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: h311m4n on November 21, 2016, 09:18:00 AM

Quote from: Satlite on November 21, 2016, 09:01:24 AM

Quote from: Amph on November 21, 2016, 08:11:53 AM

even if a pump will happen it will only last not enough to make the profitability great again for a long time like it was with early this year, i think there is too much power hashing right now, too many gpu and still being added

we need a reset to remove some miners from the scene, bad times are good for this reason to restart again with less hash over all the coins combined

but yes the one thing that make me think that there can be another good pump, is the fact that bitcoin is very high in value, and in 2015 bitcoin was in a bad condition

usually this is a good traction for some alt to get pumped to a high level

I agree with that totally. I found the total hash of the Ethereum and the ZCash is still increasing and fast.

Hmmm, actually it's lower than before and seems to be slowing down already:

http://www.coinwarz.com/network-hashrate-charts/zcash-network-hashrate-chart

I beat all my records by mining 0.01 in 20 minutes earlier today ^^

Some have drifted to ETH

I have earned .275 zed today. there are about 8 ½ hours left I could earn .37 - .40 ZEC today

h311m4n

sr. member

Activity: 487

Merit: 266

Quote from: Satlite on November 21, 2016, 09:01:24 AM

Quote from: Amph on November 21, 2016, 08:11:53 AM

even if a pump will happen it will only last not enough to make the profitability great again for a long time like it was with early this year, i think there is too much power hashing right now, too many gpu and still being added

we need a reset to remove some miners from the scene, bad times are good for this reason to restart again with less hash over all the coins combined

but yes the one thing that make me think that there can be another good pump, is the fact that bitcoin is very high in value, and in 2015 bitcoin was in a bad condition

usually this is a good traction for some alt to get pumped to a high level

I agree with that totally. I found the total hash of the Ethereum and the ZCash is still increasing and fast.

Hmmm, actually it's lower than before and seems to be slowing down already:

http://www.coinwarz.com/network-hashrate-charts/zcash-network-hashrate-chart

I beat all my records by mining 0.01 in 20 minutes earlier today ^^

Satlite

jr. member

Activity: 53

Merit: 1

Quote from: Amph on November 21, 2016, 08:11:53 AM

even if a pump will happen it will only last not enough to make the profitability great again for a long time like it was with early this year, i think there is too much power hashing right now, too many gpu and still being added

we need a reset to remove some miners from the scene, bad times are good for this reason to restart again with less hash over all the coins combined

but yes the one thing that make me think that there can be another good pump, is the fact that bitcoin is very high in value, and in 2015 bitcoin was in a bad condition

usually this is a good traction for some alt to get pumped to a high level

I agree with that totally. I found the total hash of the Ethereum and the ZCash is still increasing and fast.

olcaytu2005

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1024

Quote from: QuintLeo on November 20, 2016, 09:48:35 PM

Quote from: olcaytu2005 on November 20, 2016, 07:34:15 PM

Nothing behind for ether either, its potential is honestly bigger than any crypto out there. Wink

At this point, the ONLY cryptocoin that can honestly say "we will survive for the long term" is Bitcoin - nothing else is even on the same PLANET much less in the same ballpark when it comes to market adoption by merchants, and without that there is NO staying power possible for the long term no matter how "technically superior" a coin might be.

I am very strongly reminded of the Beta vs VHS wars - Beta was hands down technicall superior, but VHS was "good enough" and far better marketed and had much more widespread adoption and support, so Beta died after some years of competition.

Bitcoin is the frontpage of a shiny magazine, but keep in mind that once the page is open, what matters is what is inside the mag. Honestly, I stopped mining btc simply because it is owned by Chinese, not just the mining, but like the whole currency. Every pump is made by Bitmain and alike to empty their bags. Seeing this pattern for over 2 years now. And after the xt debate I honestly demolished my hopes for bitcoin for the future as it won't be able to adapt for further needs, as it seems.

Blockchain is much more than simply being a currency and closest thing to achieve that at the moment is Ether and its just the beginning.

toptek

legendary

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1000

Sense i like the power Useage of Zec mining,I'm using Claymore miner with fee off and mining on Ant's zcash pool because i can set it to PPS, the 1.5 % pool fee for PPS doesn't brother me . it seems to mine faster with PPS and no fee set for claymore till silent army's windows version at least matches claymore no fee version, then I'll use silent army again . I don't feel bad doing it this way and i pay 1% less in some fees and gonna keep mining Zcash till the end .

Amph

legendary

Activity: 3248

Merit: 1070

even if a pump will happen it will only last not enough to make the profitability great again for a long time like it was with early this year, i think there is too much power hashing right now, too many gpu and still being added

we need a reset to remove some miners from the scene, bad times are good for this reason to restart again with less hash over all the coins combined

but yes the one thing that make me think that there can be another good pump, is the fact that bitcoin is very high in value, and in 2015 bitcoin was in a bad condition

usually this is a good traction for some alt to get pumped to a high level

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4326

Merit: 8950

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: Amph on November 21, 2016, 02:41:33 AM

notice how the party is over for every altcoin, the overall profitability is declining each day and the hashrate increase, i think we are going to get another "2015 year", with very low profit if you only have 5 cent electricity

once again I disagree.

Zec is so small in market cap a simple 1 week long buying of coins from

Intel Chips
Amd Chips
Nvidia Chips

Seasonic >>> Psu's
Corsair >>>> Psu's , cases , ram
Evga >>>>>> Psu's , Gpu's
Rosewill >>>> Psu's, cases

Asrock mobos
Asus mobos, Gpus
Biostar mobos
Gigabyte mobos,gpus
Msi mobos, gpus

Microsoft windows

Every one above does well if zec thrives and that is a small list.

very soon amd will have the rx 490's

I look for a pump in zec very soon.

look below a pump is very easy to do here.

Topic: Looking like the ZEC party is over - page 5. (Read 11111 times)