Loophole in stopping Money Laundering through Wagering - page 10.

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Quote from: khaled0111 on June 30, 2023, 06:03:10 PM

Aside from the risk of losing a good chunk of your money despite gowing with low odds mentioned by other members above, on most casinos, small odds bets usually do not count toward the wagering requirement. Some of them don't even count bets made on some games like dice, crash and the like. At best they have a different wagering requirement for bets made on such games like 5x or more.
Casino owners are too smart and it's not that easy to fool them

You might lose some users if you are a casino owner and decide to impose complex restrictions on wagering requirements for non-bonus deposits. Look, I am a player and like playing my favorite games. If I play a couple of bets with a low winning chance and I hit a big win, wagering a meager amount, I won't take the risk to wager more, and I would like to withdraw my winnings.

The restrictions you put on the non-bonus deposit won't allow me to withdraw my winnings. In this case, the player will be frustrated about it. It makes sense when casinos require a wager on deposit with bonuses and in certain games. But when it comes to non-bonus deposits, it should not be more than 1-2x and not on some selective games.

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Quote from: SeriouslyGiveaway on June 29, 2023, 06:37:56 AM

Quote from: mak013 on June 29, 2023, 06:12:40 AM

Yes, it is possible. But we saw here a thread, when someone bet more than $1.000.000 with the odd less than 1.01 and lost it. There are no guarantee of winning in gambling, so some moment you can lose even with such odds.

No guarantee to win with 100% chance in gambling even you bet with low odds like 1.01.

Risk of losing all money by 1 bet with low odds and with all capital to meet 1 wager turn requirement for withdrawal is terrible. Why criminals must accept that risk if they have other choices like using mixers and pay mixing fees?

You must ask someone another about criminals risk. I saw here the thread with such a bet for more than $1.000,000 and i don`t know is it criminal or not. The same time if someone makes it the main income source, why someone can`t use it for laundering? I think that it is possible situation.

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Quote from: khaled0111 on June 30, 2023, 06:03:10 PM

Aside from the risk of losing a good chunk of your money despite gowing with low odds mentioned by other members above, on most casinos, small odds bets usually do not count toward the wagering requirement. Some of them don't even count bets made on some games like dice, crash and the like. At best they have a different wagering requirement for bets made on such games like 5x or more.
Casino owners are too smart and it's not that easy to fool them

Yes you're right, wagering requirements don't count in most cases were applied to some particular games or low winning amount of money involved, which means in other words, we have to get the requirements for wagering meant if we are dealing with a high volume of money being involved especially when you already make a win before you can claim them, i guess only fee casinos will not add such requirements to their platform in this regard.

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Quote from: Twentyonepaylots on June 30, 2023, 06:47:23 PM

Quote from: Hispo on June 30, 2023, 06:15:15 PM

Quote from: khaled0111 on June 30, 2023, 06:03:10 PM

Aside from the risk of losing a good chunk of your money despite gowing with low odds mentioned by other members above, on most casinos, small odds bets usually do not count toward the wagering requirement. Some of them don't even count bets made on some games like dice, crash and the like. At best they have a different wagering requirement for bets made on such games like 5x or more.
Casino owners are too smart and it's not that easy to fool them

Very clever. Makes me wonder whether it is an strategy which was originally conceived by casino owners or it was some measure imposed by regulators when they themselves realized that it was possible for criminals to take advantage of those low multipliers.

Anyways, besides keeping criminals away, this should be also a good reason for us to read a bit the ToS of our preferred casinos, before realizing we cannot withdraw our possible (small) gains.

On the other hand, is it solely to avoid people with bad intentions of hiding their wealth in gambling winnings or is it also the casino's intention to lure the players and push them to bet with higher risk, as one of the house edge? 'coz if it is low odds alone, then it should be a valid bet 'coz it is not a single gambler who dictates the odds of the match. Then laundering should be measured by other factors such as KYC and providing proofs that the money wo be withdrawn is aan amount from winnings and such. Actually the idea of hiding their wealth through gambling never crossed my mind but it is indeed possible. However, if it is by odds, what if other players who are not laundering and are just seeking for small but with higher tendency, to earn, are being marginalized as well? What do you think?

I'm intrigued by this viewpoint. You're navigating gambling, odds, and money laundering. The concept of concealing riches through gaming gains seldom comes up in public debates, but it's worth exploring. Casinos may promote high-risk wagers to boost income ("the house always wins"), but they are heavily regulated and monitored. KYC and AML rules apply. Thus, casinos don't cause this. Then, low odds might be a good gamble. Money laundering is about the source of money, not odds or wins. Casinos must implement comprehensive protocols to assure lawful wagering. Finally, anti-laundering regulations might marginalise certain players. However, these controls are in place to maintain the game's integrity and provide a level playing field for everybody.

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There is no way this could be possible because there are some gambling site that are too manipulative whereby if you gambles there is every chances you could lose the gamble to the site and your money is lost. Lets say bettor trying to reduce their odds, yes but there is no surety that no game would go off point, so it is very difficult for that to happened.

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Quote from: noormcs5 on June 29, 2023, 02:28:43 AM

Now the point here is that on the gambling site, there are many easy winning bets with odds like 1.01x etc. If the money lauder is sensible he can easily be wagering the whole amount by placing a few bets where the odds are very low and the winning chances are 99%.
So does this mean that there is a loophole here and the money launderers can easily by pass this wagering requirement?

The reason why ideal to read first the terms and conditions, and faqs most of us does not read those and just create and register an account and continuously playing with their bonuses and once we hit a jackpot makes an immediate withdraw and some possible chance might freeze and suggest a KYC.

Quote from: noormcs5 on June 29, 2023, 02:28:43 AM

Now the point here is that on the gambling site, there are many easy winning bets with odds like 1.01x etc. If the money lauder is sensible he can easily be wagering the whole amount by placing a few bets where the odds are very low and the winning chances are 99%.

So does this mean that there is a loophole here and the money launderers can easily by pass this wagering requirement?

At that point I'm not saying that there are but I can see this with the mines, you can make a bet with mine games choose only one tiles and if you hit makes a good 2x or any multiplier with your bet, and make another game, repeat the process but cant deny that there's a chance you lose on it.

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Quote from: Hispo on June 30, 2023, 06:15:15 PM

Quote from: khaled0111 on June 30, 2023, 06:03:10 PM

Aside from the risk of losing a good chunk of your money despite gowing with low odds mentioned by other members above, on most casinos, small odds bets usually do not count toward the wagering requirement. Some of them don't even count bets made on some games like dice, crash and the like. At best they have a different wagering requirement for bets made on such games like 5x or more.
Casino owners are too smart and it's not that easy to fool them

Very clever. Makes me wonder whether it is an strategy which was originally conceived by casino owners or it was some measure imposed by regulators when they themselves realized that it was possible for criminals to take advantage of those low multipliers.

Anyways, besides keeping criminals away, this should be also a good reason for us to read a bit the ToS of our preferred casinos, before realizing we cannot withdraw our possible (small) gains.

On the other hand, is it solely to avoid people with bad intentions of hiding their wealth in gambling winnings or is it also the casino's intention to lure the players and push them to bet with higher risk, as one of the house edge? 'coz if it is low odds alone, then it should be a valid bet 'coz it is not a single gambler who dictates the odds of the match. Then laundering should be measured by other factors such as KYC and providing proofs that the money wo be withdrawn is aan amount from winnings and such. Actually the idea of hiding their wealth through gambling never crossed my mind but it is indeed possible. However, if it is by odds, what if other players who are not laundering and are just seeking for small but with higher tendency, to earn, are being marginalized as well? What do you think?

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Quote from: serjent05 on June 30, 2023, 06:08:59 PM

Quote from: khaled0111 on June 30, 2023, 06:03:10 PM

Aside from the risk of losing a good chunk of your money despite gowing with low odds mentioned by other members above, on most casinos, small odds bets usually do not count toward the wagering requirement. Some of them don't even count bets made on some games like dice, crash and the like. At best they have a different wagering requirement for bets made on such games like 5x or more.
Casino owners are too smart and it's not that easy to fool them

True, some casinos even give a list of casino games that can be played that can count toward wagering requirements. I was somehow baffled when they have this kind of rule and recently I found out that many crypto washers are taking advantage of their low odds game to meet the wagering requirement with the lowest possible losses. This is somehow a very clever way of telling the players that they cannot let money launderer take advantage of their low wagering requirement for withdrawal.

Simply these platforms doesnt really like for themselves to get involved when it comes to this aspect and this is why they would really be normally be going into those methods or things which it would really be
that impossible for certain users to be able to hit up and wash out their money so easily specially into those launderers and this is why they would really be making out some exclusion on what are the
games which could be able to count on wagering their balance. On the time that these people been aware that it is hard to make out such thing on a certain site then for sure they would
really be looking into other place.

You wouldnt really be making yourself that getting along on platforms which you do seem that it is hard to reach that wager requirement but if you arent that a money launderer then why would mind that much? Grin

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Quote from: khaled0111 on June 30, 2023, 06:03:10 PM

Aside from the risk of losing a good chunk of your money despite gowing with low odds mentioned by other members above, on most casinos, small odds bets usually do not count toward the wagering requirement. Some of them don't even count bets made on some games like dice, crash and the like. At best they have a different wagering requirement for bets made on such games like 5x or more.
Casino owners are too smart and it's not that easy to fool them

Very clever. Makes me wonder whether it is an strategy which was originally conceived by casino owners or it was some measure imposed by regulators when they themselves realized that it was possible for criminals to take advantage of those low multipliers.

Anyways, besides keeping criminals away, this should be also a good reason for us to read a bit the ToS of our preferred casinos, before realizing we cannot withdraw our possible (small) gains.

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Quote from: khaled0111 on June 30, 2023, 06:03:10 PM

Aside from the risk of losing a good chunk of your money despite gowing with low odds mentioned by other members above, on most casinos, small odds bets usually do not count toward the wagering requirement. Some of them don't even count bets made on some games like dice, crash and the like. At best they have a different wagering requirement for bets made on such games like 5x or more.
Casino owners are too smart and it's not that easy to fool them

True, some casinos even give a list of casino games that can be played that can count toward wagering requirements. I was somehow baffled when they have this kind of rule and recently I found out that many crypto washers are taking advantage of their low odds game to meet the wagering requirement with the lowest possible losses. This is somehow a very clever way of telling the players that they cannot let money launderer take advantage of their low wagering requirement for withdrawal.

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Aside from the risk of losing a good chunk of your money despite gowing with low odds mentioned by other members above, on most casinos, small odds bets usually do not count toward the wagering requirement. Some of them don't even count bets made on some games like dice, crash and the like. At best they have a different wagering requirement for bets made on such games like 5x or more.
Casino owners are too smart and it's not that easy to fool them

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Quote from: dothebeats on June 30, 2023, 04:59:29 PM

Quote from: goldkingcoiner on June 30, 2023, 01:56:34 PM

Now, about money laundering: Obviously the casino has records of losses and wins and they would give these documents to any law enforcement or government agency anyway. So that person would still have to explain the source of the deposits of his funds.

I think it would be easier for the casinos to get their 1% of the money launderer's money, so they keep quiet because its more profitable for them.

Sometimes the casino platforms also have to play ball with the law enforcement, so as to make sure that they are not getting a lot of attention and be a hot target for surveillance and whatnot. I'm pretty sure casinos know who launders money and who doesn't, and they would certainly let the bigger fishes pass while the smaller ones, they catch and send the additional layer of KYC, getting them records, and letting the relevant authorities know before they let these fishes' funds go.

That's why KYC has been added plus they additional supporting documentation on their Kyc provided to verify the real identity of the owner. This make the life of money laundering hard because some reputable casino ask this when they see something strange activity happen in some account. Criminals now are not into casino because they know the current requirements implemented which make them hard to make their evil plan to succeed. They go to mixers because for now this is easy escape route for them to cover up their crime.

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Quote from: goldkingcoiner on June 30, 2023, 01:56:34 PM

Now, about money laundering: Obviously the casino has records of losses and wins and they would give these documents to any law enforcement or government agency anyway. So that person would still have to explain the source of the deposits of his funds.

I think it would be easier for the casinos to get their 1% of the money launderer's money, so they keep quiet because its more profitable for them.

Sometimes the casino platforms also have to play ball with the law enforcement, so as to make sure that they are not getting a lot of attention and be a hot target for surveillance and whatnot. I'm pretty sure casinos know who launders money and who doesn't, and they would certainly let the bigger fishes pass while the smaller ones, they catch and send the additional layer of KYC, getting them records, and letting the relevant authorities know before they let these fishes' funds go.

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Quote from: noormcs5 on June 29, 2023, 02:28:43 AM

As we know that most gambling sites will require you to gamble and wager your whole balance once, before you can cash out or withdraw from the gambling site and they take this measure so people do not do money laundering whereby deposit and withdraw without gambling.

Now the point here is that on the gambling site, there are many easy winning bets with odds like 1.01x etc. If the money lauder is sensible he can easily be wagering the whole amount by placing a few bets where the odds are very low and the winning chances are 99%.

So does this mean that there is a loophole here and the money launderers can easily by pass this wagering requirement?

I don't think it's a loophole, because even with odds of 1.5 they have a little bit less than 66% to win their bets, so they would win 2 times on 3 and win +50% of profit each time, I don't think it's a big issue when you need to launder money.

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Quote from: Nwada001 on June 29, 2023, 02:34:32 AM

Quote from: noormcs5 on June 29, 2023, 02:28:43 AM

Now the point here is that on the gambling site, there are many easy winning bets with odds like 1.01x etc. If the money lauder is sensible he can easily be wagering the whole amount by placing a few bets where the odds are very low and the winning chances are 99%.

There is no sure winning in gambling; even the lowest odds can still lose a game. So if the intention of the user is to launder money through the Casino, their chances of losing the entire money before even getting it out are high.

Lower Odds give one some confidence that their chances of winning are huge, but it does not always happen that way. So trying to use that as a loophole in an online casino might lead you to fall victim to losing all your wagers.

While you are right in the idea that 99% doesn't mean everytime, you also have to consider the fact that it is almost every time, and that alone is enough for these money launderers to use these gambling sites as a form of money laundering method. It may not be the best, but against losing it entirely to the IRS and getting jailed for god knows how long, the prospect of losing all your money which I believe you can gain anyway considering the fact that you're trying to hide it from the IRS is minuscule.

So while for the average person losing money on a bet like this could cause them mental anguish and pain, for the average money launderer who as I said earlier could earn back what they lost in a snap thanks to their unlawful/shady business practices, this is just a minor setback.

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on June 30, 2023, 04:16:26 PM

Quote from: AmoreJaz on June 29, 2023, 05:30:33 PM

well, most of the time, it is none of casino's business where you got the money but the player should always check the ToS of the site to avoid possible problem. because once they saw some unusual activities or amounts in your account, they might flag you down.
there may be gamblers who are washing their money via casinos, but it is how you play your cards not to get caught. so the probability of washing money in casinos is always there, especially if the wagering requirements is low.

Yes, there's the probability of washing crypto through the use of casinos but if check the risk involve in losing all the funds I don't think it is something anyone should try. Remember "not your key, not your coin" especially now that most casinos are changing their TOS.
When privacy is a top priority it is better to use a crypto tumbler site and a good anonymous exchange than use a casino where the risk is high.

^Definitely right that there is a possibility of laundering cryptocurrency through casinos. However, it is important to consider the risks involved, such as the potential loss of all funds. As the saying goes, "not your key, not your coin," which is especially relevant given the changing terms of service (TOS) in many casinos. If privacy is a major concern, it would be wiser to use a crypto tumbler site or coin mixer and a reputable anonymous exchange. By doing so, the risks associated with using a casino can be minimized, offering a safer and more secure approach to protecting one's assets while maintaining anonymity.

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on June 30, 2023, 04:16:26 PM

Quote from: AmoreJaz on June 29, 2023, 05:30:33 PM

well, most of the time, it is none of casino's business where you got the money but the player should always check the ToS of the site to avoid possible problem. because once they saw some unusual activities or amounts in your account, they might flag you down.
there may be gamblers who are washing their money via casinos, but it is how you play your cards not to get caught. so the probability of washing money in casinos is always there, especially if the wagering requirements are low.

Yes, there's the probability of washing crypto through the use of casinos but if check the risk involve in losing all the funds I don't think it is something anyone should try. Remember "not your key, not your coin" especially now that most casinos are changing their TOS.
When privacy is a top priority it is better to use a crypto tumbler site and a good anonymous exchange than use a casino where the risk is high.

Aside from casino being used for money laundering being the reason for wager demands on deposits, it is still a game by the casino to get the customer hucked, since wager is a most on all deposits it then means the casino will make more money from players quest to meet the wagering requirement and failing in the process, and sometimes some of the casino place unreasonable wager requirement on deposits balance and players continue to lose trying to fulfil that retirement on multiple times.

So the casino is not protecting the player or the government by enforcing wager requirements, but they are also fulfilling their obligation to generate revenue for the business using that tactic.

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Quote from: AmoreJaz on June 29, 2023, 05:30:33 PM

well, most of the time, it is none of casino's business where you got the money but the player should always check the ToS of the site to avoid possible problem. because once they saw some unusual activities or amounts in your account, they might flag you down.
there may be gamblers who are washing their money via casinos, but it is how you play your cards not to get caught. so the probability of washing money in casinos is always there, especially if the wagering requirements is low.

Yes, there's the probability of washing crypto through the use of casinos but if check the risk involve in losing all the funds I don't think it is something anyone should try. Remember "not your key, not your coin" especially now that most casinos are changing their TOS.
When privacy is a top priority it is better to use a crypto tumbler site and a good anonymous exchange than use a casino where the risk is high.

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Quote from: noormcs5 on June 29, 2023, 02:28:43 AM

.

Now the point here is that on the gambling site, there are many easy winning bets with odds like 1.01x etc. If the money lauder is sensible he can easily be wagering the whole amount by placing a few bets where the odds are very low and the winning chances are 99%.

So does this mean that there is a loophole here and the money launderers can easily by pass this wagering requirement?

The 1% less risk as you reason it has championed many losses to gamblers as those very low multipliers could be so deceiving many times. Since the existence of gambling there's nothing like a sure or easy odd as a result of it's size so such presumed loophole-odds still establishes losses.

The gambling companies knows very well that gambling is a game of chance/luck that's why they imposed such wagering requirements clause as there's every possibility that 7 out of 10 money laundering bets ma incur a loss irrespective of odd size if such gambler is not lucky and smart put together. Gambling is a game of uncertainty nothing is sure

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Quote from: Jody.Drummer on June 30, 2023, 03:09:26 PM

Quote from: dezoel on June 30, 2023, 01:30:16 PM

How can consider that a loophole when you can clearly lose a bet with even 1.01x odds? This has happened a lot in the past, a guy even lost $1.4m in a single bet with 1.01x odds maybe because he had the same thought that he will never lose and will win some money and stop, but what happened was probably shocking for him and for us as well, losing $1.4m in a single bet isn't a joke even if you are a billionaire.

So, someone trying to place bets with his entire balance or maybe half of it using a 1.01x multiplier hoping he won't lose and quickly complete the wagering requirement is actually making a mistake, it is gambling and we all know that anything can happen in gambling, it's better to play it safe.

Yes, it doesn't matter how much the chance of winning is given, if at that time we have to lose, then defeat will not be inevitable. Sometimes these things we take for granted, and keep in mind this is a gamble that allows anything to happen, so I agree with you. Mistakes don't have to be something big, like trying to put all of our balance on a bet with a very slim chance of winning, but mistakes can happen to things we might not have thought of before seeing things as realistic.
Once again I say this is a gamble that we will not know what the outcome will be.

The only solution I see to money laundering is already there and it is KYC, I don't see anything else that can combat it, casino security systems can do it, if not, I think these things would not make sense, I have seen cases where There are many players who play in a casino with a VPN, and when the casino detects that they have won and are going to make a withdrawal, they block their funds and say that it is wrong because they used a VPN, if they have that capacity, then when there are illegal movements of money They can stop it too, and I don't think that those who go to Laavar Diero do 100 counts and do 100kyc, this is the only thing that can stop it.

Topic: Loophole in stopping Money Laundering through Wagering - page 10. (Read 1678 times)