Topic: Loophole in stopping Money Laundering through Wagering - page 9. (Read 1678 times)

As we know that most gambling sites will require you to gamble and wager your whole balance once, before you can cash out or withdraw from the gambling site and they take this measure so people do not do money laundering whereby deposit and withdraw without gambling.

Now the point here is that on the gambling site, there are many easy winning bets with odds like 1.01x etc. If the money lauder is sensible he can easily be wagering the whole amount by placing a few bets where the odds are very low and the winning chances are 99%.

So does this mean that there is a loophole here and the money launderers can easily by pass this wagering requirement?

Hmm this makes a bit of sense but I think the best way to say this is, it will increase your chance of winning more but it won't kill the chances of losing money, instead of thinking of how much you will make using this technique think about how much you will lose using this method.

The chances of losing is still available and it will be even more painful if you lose this money because you are betting on low odds, I have tried this with a brother who is a football fan, even the lowest of odds doesn't bring wins most times, to me I see not much difference.

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Quote from: Jawhead999 on July 01, 2023, 10:20:41 AM

As we know that most gambling sites will require you to gamble and wager your whole balance once, before you can cash out or withdraw from the gambling site and they take this measure so people do not do money laundering whereby deposit and withdraw without gambling.

Now the point here is that on the gambling site, there are many easy winning bets with odds like 1.01x etc. If the money lauder is sensible he can easily be wagering the whole amount by placing a few bets where the odds are very low and the winning chances are 99%.

So does this mean that there is a loophole here and the money launderers can easily by pass this wagering requirement?

That's not a good idea since one loss wipes you out. It does happen.

wiss19

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There's always a loophole and it's impossible for the casino to stop money laundering.

If the casino have minimum wagering requirement, the gambler only need to gamble with low odds.

If the casino ask to increase the odds, the gambler need to choose a safe game like sport bookie.

If the casino ask to submit KYC, the gambler can submit a fake or photoshopped KYC and the casino will never know if the KYC is fake.

To stop money laundering is to deal with it, you can't expect your rules will completely prevent money laundering.

None of the points you've mentioned can be considered loopholes and cannot be used by a money launderer to successfully launder the money without losing it at all. Who says that you cannot lose a bet with low odds? There are people who lose thousands of dollars only because they use low ads with the confidence that they won't lose and will gain a couple of hundred dollars per bet which doesn't always work as house edge gets you once for sure.

Even sports betting can't guarantee that you will win, what if you choose a favorite team and they don't win that day? It's not always important that the favorite wins all the time, and, one can definitely not get away with a photoshopped KYC document since most casinos these days would ask you to take a picture with your document in your hand which can't be done with a photoshopped document.

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Quote from: dothebeats on July 01, 2023, 06:06:39 PM

Quote from: Hamphser on July 01, 2023, 05:46:18 PM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on July 01, 2023, 05:41:49 PM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on June 30, 2023, 04:16:26 PM

Quote from: Doan9269 on July 01, 2023, 07:32:19 AM

well, most of the time, it is none of casino's business where you got the money but the player should always check the ToS of the site to avoid possible problem. because once they saw some unusual activities or amounts in your account, they might flag you down.
there may be gamblers who are washing their money via casinos, but it is how you play your cards not to get caught. so the probability of washing money in casinos is always there, especially if the wagering requirements are low.

Yes, there's the probability of washing crypto through the use of casinos but if check the risk involve in losing all the funds I don't think it is something anyone should try. Remember "not your key, not your coin" especially now that most casinos are changing their TOS.
When privacy is a top priority it is better to use a crypto tumbler site and a good anonymous exchange than use a casino where the risk is high.

Aside from casino being used for money laundering being the reason for wager demands on deposits, it is still a game by the casino to get the customer hucked, since wager is a most on all deposits it then means the casino will make more money from players quest to meet the wagering requirement and failing in the process, and sometimes some of the casino place unreasonable wager requirement on deposits balance and players continue to lose trying to fulfil that retirement on multiple times.

So the casino is not protecting the player or the government by enforcing wager requirements, but they are also fulfilling their obligation to generate revenue for the business using that tactic.

Maybe the casino implemented the wagering requirement on all deposits just to hook the gamblers but let's be honest and think like the casino owner. Why would a gambler deposit some funds on a casino if the purpose was not about using the fund to play games?
If the process is through launcering dont tell the casino wont be held responsible if the fund was traced to their platform. If you're the owner of the casino wont you take the necessary move to safe the casino reputation?

We know that these platforms are really that regulated or really abiding government laws on which it would really be that normal that they would really be that monitored and being that checked about incoming or outgoing transactions in between those funds that had been going in and out on the said platform. As an owner then since you have agreed on what are those terms and conditions that they have been set out then
it would really be normal that you would really be trying out to implement on whats been asked out in regarding about money laundering.

We know that gambling business or platform could really be able to mixed up or clean up those tarnished funds if there's someone who would really be tending on making up a deposit on a certain casino
and would really be planning on wagering it out to make those coins clean and if those things would be easy to achieve then this would become the best place on cleaning up illegal coins which is something
that owner of these business wouldnt really be letting it to happen since they do know that they are putting up their business at risks.

You will never know. There are still casinos that aren't really that compliant with law enforcement and regulators unless they're really pressed hard to divulge information on the said matter. To some casino operators, it's just additional work, though these casinos are very few and far between. As we can see, a minor deviation from your account's usual pattern often triggers the casino's security systems to raise the alarms and send the additional KYC. So I think in this aspect of the casino, the money launderer stands no chance if they got their funds held for obvious reasons.

@Hamphser Years ago before the SEC intervene in the cryptocurrency market some gamblers are using casinos to clean illegal coins and the casino are the ones held responsible in other prevent the same thing from happening again which could lead to casinos losing the platform they build for years in just a moment was the reason why different rules and regulation was implemented after the SEC intervened.
@dothebeats If there are still some casinos that are truly not complaining or have no rules for wager required on money laundering they will have it when it is time just like we see KuCoin introducing KYC now all users.

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Yes you're right, wagering requirements don't count in most cases were applied to some particular games or low winning amount of money involved, which means in other words, we have to get the requirements for wagering meant if we are dealing with a high volume of money being involved especially when you already make a win before you can claim them, i guess only fee casinos will not add such requirements to their platform in this regard.

It's not about small bets (like betting 1 or 20 sats on an event), it's mire about the odds. You can place à 1 sat bet and it will be counted if the odds are reasonable enough (usually, when it's more than 1.4).
Casinos have developed sophisticated algorithms and they have paid billions for those algorithms to spot players who are trying to cheat them. Those who are trying to bypass wagering requirements are the easier to spot.

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Quote from: Hamphser on July 01, 2023, 05:46:18 PM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on July 01, 2023, 05:41:49 PM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on June 30, 2023, 04:16:26 PM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on July 01, 2023, 05:41:49 PM

well, most of the time, it is none of casino's business where you got the money but the player should always check the ToS of the site to avoid possible problem. because once they saw some unusual activities or amounts in your account, they might flag you down.
there may be gamblers who are washing their money via casinos, but it is how you play your cards not to get caught. so the probability of washing money in casinos is always there, especially if the wagering requirements are low.

Yes, there's the probability of washing crypto through the use of casinos but if check the risk involve in losing all the funds I don't think it is something anyone should try. Remember "not your key, not your coin" especially now that most casinos are changing their TOS.
When privacy is a top priority it is better to use a crypto tumbler site and a good anonymous exchange than use a casino where the risk is high.

Aside from casino being used for money laundering being the reason for wager demands on deposits, it is still a game by the casino to get the customer hucked, since wager is a most on all deposits it then means the casino will make more money from players quest to meet the wagering requirement and failing in the process, and sometimes some of the casino place unreasonable wager requirement on deposits balance and players continue to lose trying to fulfil that retirement on multiple times.

So the casino is not protecting the player or the government by enforcing wager requirements, but they are also fulfilling their obligation to generate revenue for the business using that tactic.

Maybe the casino implemented the wagering requirement on all deposits just to hook the gamblers but let's be honest and think like the casino owner. Why would a gambler deposit some funds on a casino if the purpose was not about using the fund to play games?
If the process is through launcering dont tell the casino wont be held responsible if the fund was traced to their platform. If you're the owner of the casino wont you take the necessary move to safe the casino reputation?

We know that these platforms are really that regulated or really abiding government laws on which it would really be that normal that they would really be that monitored and being that checked about incoming or outgoing transactions in between those funds that had been going in and out on the said platform. As an owner then since you have agreed on what are those terms and conditions that they have been set out then
it would really be normal that you would really be trying out to implement on whats been asked out in regarding about money laundering.

We know that gambling business or platform could really be able to mixed up or clean up those tarnished funds if there's someone who would really be tending on making up a deposit on a certain casino
and would really be planning on wagering it out to make those coins clean and if those things would be easy to achieve then this would become the best place on cleaning up illegal coins which is something
that owner of these business wouldnt really be letting it to happen since they do know that they are putting up their business at risks.

You will never know. There are still casinos that aren't really that compliant with law enforcement and regulators unless they're really pressed hard to divulge information on the said matter. To some casino operators, it's just additional work, though these casinos are very few and far between. As we can see, a minor deviation from your account's usual pattern often triggers the casino's security systems to raise the alarms and send the additional KYC. So I think in this aspect of the casino, the money launderer stands no chance if they got their funds held for obvious reasons.

Ojima-ojo

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Have the wager requirements helped in combating money laundering through casino?

Because even if anyone want to launder money won't casino be a bigger risk for them since their can lose all the money trying to get it into casino wallet and meet the wager requirements, and also what if the said individual loses the bet?

I think anyone wanting to launder money will probably make use of mixing services to avoid the risk of losing money through the casino.

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on June 30, 2023, 04:16:26 PM

well, most of the time, it is none of casino's business where you got the money but the player should always check the ToS of the site to avoid possible problem. because once they saw some unusual activities or amounts in your account, they might flag you down.
there may be gamblers who are washing their money via casinos, but it is how you play your cards not to get caught. so the probability of washing money in casinos is always there, especially if the wagering requirements are low.

Yes, there's the probability of washing crypto through the use of casinos but if check the risk involve in losing all the funds I don't think it is something anyone should try. Remember "not your key, not your coin" especially now that most casinos are changing their TOS.
When privacy is a top priority it is better to use a crypto tumbler site and a good anonymous exchange than use a casino where the risk is high.

Aside from casino being used for money laundering being the reason for wager demands on deposits, it is still a game by the casino to get the customer hucked, since wager is a most on all deposits it then means the casino will make more money from players quest to meet the wagering requirement and failing in the process, and sometimes some of the casino place unreasonable wager requirement on deposits balance and players continue to lose trying to fulfil that retirement on multiple times.

So the casino is not protecting the player or the government by enforcing wager requirements, but they are also fulfilling their obligation to generate revenue for the business using that tactic.

Maybe the casino implemented the wagering requirement on all deposits just to hook the gamblers but let's be honest and think like the casino owner. Why would a gambler deposit some funds on a casino if the purpose was not about using the fund to play games?
If the process is through launcering dont tell the casino wont be held responsible if the fund was traced to their platform. If you're the owner of the casino wont you take the necessary move to safe the casino reputation?

We know that these platforms are really that regulated or really abiding government laws on which it would really be that normal that they would really be that monitored and being that checked about incoming or outgoing transactions in between those funds that had been going in and out on the said platform. As an owner then since you have agreed on what are those terms and conditions that they have been set out then
it would really be normal that you would really be trying out to implement on whats been asked out in regarding about money laundering.

We know that gambling business or platform could really be able to mixed up or clean up those tarnished funds if there's someone who would really be tending on making up a deposit on a certain casino
and would really be planning on wagering it out to make those coins clean and if those things would be easy to achieve then this would become the best place on cleaning up illegal coins which is something
that owner of these business wouldnt really be letting it to happen since they do know that they are putting up their business at risks.

suzanne5223

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on June 30, 2023, 04:16:26 PM

Quote from: Jawhead999 on July 01, 2023, 10:20:41 AM

well, most of the time, it is none of casino's business where you got the money but the player should always check the ToS of the site to avoid possible problem. because once they saw some unusual activities or amounts in your account, they might flag you down.
there may be gamblers who are washing their money via casinos, but it is how you play your cards not to get caught. so the probability of washing money in casinos is always there, especially if the wagering requirements are low.

Yes, there's the probability of washing crypto through the use of casinos but if check the risk involve in losing all the funds I don't think it is something anyone should try. Remember "not your key, not your coin" especially now that most casinos are changing their TOS.
When privacy is a top priority it is better to use a crypto tumbler site and a good anonymous exchange than use a casino where the risk is high.

Aside from casino being used for money laundering being the reason for wager demands on deposits, it is still a game by the casino to get the customer hucked, since wager is a most on all deposits it then means the casino will make more money from players quest to meet the wagering requirement and failing in the process, and sometimes some of the casino place unreasonable wager requirement on deposits balance and players continue to lose trying to fulfil that retirement on multiple times.

So the casino is not protecting the player or the government by enforcing wager requirements, but they are also fulfilling their obligation to generate revenue for the business using that tactic.

Maybe the casino implemented the wagering requirement on all deposits just to hook the gamblers but let's be honest and think like the casino owner. Why would a gambler deposit some funds on a casino if the purpose was not about using the fund to play games?
If the process is through launcering dont tell the casino wont be held responsible if the fund was traced to their platform. If you're the owner of the casino wont you take the necessary move to safe the casino reputation?

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There's always a loophole and it's impossible for the casino to stop money laundering.

If the casino have minimum wagering requirement, the gambler only need to gamble with low odds.

If the casino ask to increase the odds, the gambler need to choose a safe game like sport bookie.

If the casino ask to submit KYC, the gambler can submit a fake or photoshopped KYC and the casino will never know if the KYC is fake.

To stop money laundering is to deal with it, you can't expect your rules will completely prevent money laundering.

Well this is true, there's so many ways to avoid the demands of a casino but I think money launderers has way more options rather than laundering on a casino and expect this kind of challenges if ever the casino noticed that they are trying to launder money. Casino just want to avoid a money laundering abuse this is why they implement this kind of rule, but to be honest it's very easy to get that 1x wager requirement. If a launderer has been doing this for a long time, I'm pretty sure that they are ready for the casino requirements a long time ago. It's hard to stop money launderers as they can always think about what kind of solution they will make to bypass the challenges to launder their money.

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Quote from: Haunebu on July 01, 2023, 11:00:03 AM

Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on July 01, 2023, 10:18:54 AM

Several times I've placed bets on games with odds like you mentioned, 1.01x, 1.02 and so on, and still lost, so with this experience, I on my own would never use or consider such type of games as a means to launder money, only a complete newbie gambler would make such a mistake to think that there are sure win games on betting, all games come with risk no matter how low or high the odd is.

Exactly. Let's see a money launderer would want to launder money using 1.01x dice. He/she could be successful if they stick to laundering in the short-term, but they will lose a lot of money if they try this trick again and again in the long-term.

If the casino noticed that an account deposit a huge amount of money and just meet the 1x wagering before withdrawing then they can be suspicious of the person's activity. A normal gambler will never do such pattern so it is possible that the account can be tagged with money laundering suspicion and the casino may probably ask for KYC and source of fund verification.

Quote from: Haunebu on July 01, 2023, 11:00:03 AM

Why? Because the edge will catch up eventually. I have noticed that you tend to lose 2-4 rolls among 100 rolls in Dice at 1.01x. Very risky loophole.

And will have more losses way more than that if we keep rolling pass 100x.

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Quote from: BitDane on June 29, 2023, 05:28:49 PM

Quote from: o48o on June 29, 2023, 04:24:52 PM

I personally don't think that casinos are used to wash money. At least anymore. Laws are too strict on that. NTFs however...

I think otherwise, many people still use casinos to wash money. I think this is one of the problem that will stay no matter how strict the casino is. A player can provide the proof where the fund came from but the person on the receiving end of that fund will never know where it is coming from nor the source of that money since it has been mixed in the casinos hand. In cryptocurrency, the fund is often released from the hot wallet of the casino and not from the address of the person who withdraw the money.
-cut-

You are talking what happens after we withdraw our money from casino, but i meant that person on the receiving end would be that casino in the first place. They have an obligation too to check that money is legit in the first place. And once again, we are not talking about small sums.

But i am not an expert in any way about money laundering tactics and you might be correct. I however wasn't talking what happens after casino.

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There is nothing like sure bets and no one can predict the outcome of a bet, and since it is like that even the lowest odds can still produce a losing bet and so we must not underrate t the casino since there have a mechanism in place to always put the casino interest first and same goes with wager requirements.
The reason why casinos out 1x wager requirements on deposits is to avoid money laundering they also know that not all 1x wagers will give winning and sometimes the gambler loses all the deposits to the casino in trying to meet that requirement.

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on July 01, 2023, 10:18:54 AM

Several times I've placed bets on games with odds like you mentioned, 1.01x, 1.02 and so on, and still lost, so with this experience, I on my own would never use or consider such type of games as a means to launder money, only a complete newbie gambler would make such a mistake to think that there are sure win games on betting, all games come with risk no matter how low or high the odd is.

Exactly. Let's see a money launderer would want to launder money using 1.01x dice. He/she could be successful if they stick to laundering in the short-term, but they will lose a lot of money if they try this trick again and again in the long-term.

Why? Because the edge will catch up eventually. I have noticed that you tend to lose 2-4 rolls among 100 rolls in Dice at 1.01x. Very risky loophole.

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There's always a loophole and it's impossible for the casino to stop money laundering.

If the casino have minimum wagering requirement, the gambler only need to gamble with low odds.

If the casino ask to increase the odds, the gambler need to choose a safe game like sport bookie.

If the casino ask to submit KYC, the gambler can submit a fake or photoshopped KYC and the casino will never know if the KYC is fake.

To stop money laundering is to deal with it, you can't expect your rules will completely prevent money laundering.

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So does this mean that there is a loophole here and the money launderers can easily by pass this wagering requirement?

It is not a loophole as there is still big risk to lose the entire balance in single bet even with the highest winning odds.
I will call anyone who try to use casino for money laundering as stupid person and I believe no one will do it for big amount at least.
As far as I know there are indeed some users in some casinos who are suspected to do money laundering but afaik there is no solid evidence for it.
IMO, most of the cases are just because players do not know about the wagering requirement for deposit and they try to withdraw their money after few bets when they have not reached the wagering requirement.

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