Topic: Lottery guy bets entire BTC fortune and ... loses? :) - page 2. (Read 6621 times)

Although you're sourcing that from a wiki dictionary and not a word authority like Merriam-Webster, I agree. Just be aware that your usage of digit in your details page is a bit vague if you don't specify the hexadecimal numbering system.



That's odd, I didn't know you couldn't just transfer whatever balance you had.  Well with all the hackings and malware going around if I won I wouldn't publicly announce it.  Looks like you're running the most popular lottery, I don't think anyone is even close to $1,200 USD in payouts.

That's the bitcoin software that does that not me. Since I was paid in 1 BTC amounts when I paid the winner it just moved them. When they spend coins though it will probably be combined now.

I don't think I'd change the 1% fee. I know it's very tiny! I know, I barely afford the hosting for the lottery. BUT, hopefully because it's such a good deal for everyone BitLotto will grow based off of customer satisfaction not by advertising. I hope. I think too, as more people win who announce they won, people will slowly trust me more. As the trust grows, hopefully the jackpot will too. I want people who like to play the lottery to have the best experience possible where they KNOW they got their BTC worth and got exactly what they paid for. I want BitLotto to be the place that people go to play the lottery.

Ah alright, just I misinterpreted "digit" as a traditional 0-9 number, not as a hexadecimal digit.
I see you transfer the payment via 1 bitcoin transactions, that's an odd way to do it.

1% is a really small operator's fee, it might be wise to take a bit more to invest in advertising and to put some coins as the jackpot minimum at the start of every round.
both would benefit the players after all

Had to look it up to make sure I'm using English right:
digit - The digits of the decimal number system are 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9, and those in the hexadecimal number system are those in the decimal system along with A, B, C, D, E and F.
Letters count. Ultimately I'm looking to find the transaction hash that matches the beginning the best.

That was the old method - it was too confusing and still could me manipulated with expensive super computers.

"ec" is just part of the hash. Each payment will have a hash 0-9 and a-f. All mixed up. The draw hash is compared to transaction hashes to find the winner. The hash can not be predicted or controlled since mega millions numbers are added after all the payments are in.

edit- 0-9

Sorry about that, don't know how I missed that page.


I'm not sure I'm clear on the formula yet.  What exactly does the secret hash mean?  I don't see a reference to it on the details page.
Did the winning picks come from the secret hash? or did you hash block1 & block2 together?
If the only relevant part of the winning picks are the digits, why does "ec" win? Those aren't digits.


cheers

Did you read: http://bitlotto.com/details.html ?
It's all there and always has been. Otherwise I could change how I pick the winner! I did change/tweak the method a few times before BUT EVERY TIME it was done well in advance of the draw and announced so I couldn't cheat.

This is an interest debate. I've read through Bitlotto's website and statements in this topic, and I've found a way he could cheat.

The algorithm he uses to compare the sha-256 hash of the block hash and the mega ball number, against the transaction hash.  I haven't seen any place where he's disclosed this algorithm.

So as of now he could be cheating.  This is easy enough to fix though, by just disclosing the process so anyone can replicate it.

jerfelix: i think the thing you are missing is that yes, bitlotto has a small advantage in that their tickets cost .99 on the dollar, but they have the same odds as anyone else. sure they could put 700 of their own bitcoins in and have a large advantage in winning (and then disappear if they lost), but only the light risk and the 1% vig are advantages. You could also put 700 of your own bitcoins in and have the same large odds of winning, but you couldn't run away if you lost.

I agree that the flight risk is the biggest problem, and any lotto should have an escrow that has a lot of other business (so that by stealing short term lotto money they would be forgoing a lot of future profits) but other than that flight risk, its not like bitlotto can recycle the lotto money to increase their own chances of winning.

Ok. I'm trying to be as honest and transparent as I can. If you can think of tweaks I could do I'd love to hear input. I kind of get what you were saying about me buying tickets but because I only get 1% of the tickets it doesn't work. 40% for sure it could work. The 1% makes it so I can't really buy a ton of tickets at way cheaper cost to win myself, AND it motivates me to create BitLotto into a long term successful business. If you also can think of ways of putting my money in trust to something beyond anyone's control I'd love to hear that too. I know you suggested using clearcoin but the problem still persists. Somebody has to give it the "ok".

Oh and can you please edit your edit of the first post? It kind of makes me sound like I'm cheating!

And good luck if you decide to buy a ticket!!

I wish I could say I was laughing while debating but I'm tired, and was not sober for part of it!   BitLotto is my beautiful perfect baby and it got me a *little* worked up. (I'm ok now though!)

go volunteer or something and where an I'm right T shirt while doing that. Then at least someone will benefit from your time.

Naw, I'm just havin fun on a day off.  I'm really not worked up. I just enjoy spirited debate, and had some spare time.

Honestly, I'm not trying to pick on you or bitlotto, and I hope this leads to more business for you, assuming you're legit, of course.  You've been a great sport and very respectful.

Like one of the posts a few back, I'm interested in figuring out how the community can have the most ethical, provably honest lottery.  I think you're real close.  I feel like I found a loophole and I think it should be addressed, but it's good to get other people's opinions.  After all, I have nee wrong before!  (Once, when I accidentally bought pencils with erasers).

Forums suck for expressing true emotion, but I am really smiling through this whole thread.  I love it.  Call me weird.......   and no, I have no expectations of getting your bitcoins.  It's just fun to stir the pot a little.

I just re-read the thread.
You've changed the title to "bets entire BTC fortune!" - Holy crap you didn't think I was betting the jackpot did you? That's not my money!!!
My BTC fortune is pretty much a couple BTC!!! I said "own" not "access to"!
 

I see now why you were trying so hard!!!

We can and have done. See bitlotto.com! LOL.

Actually you are. Tickets used to be 1 BTC.


Your first post was edited to give the impression that I can't be trusted!


So ALL raffle draws are SCAMS?

Please people calm down 

It would be really great if we could sort this out. Let's forget about the bet/Bitlotto and focus on the lottery architecture.
If we can design a lottery system that can't be manipulated by the operator (except for the obvious run away and disappear for eternity) it would be awesome.

I don't think there is any real world lottery that is so robust that even the operator can play without being accused to manipulate the results.
Also, if we can find flaws in the current system and provide robust alternatives, I'm sure Bitlotto will implement them.
So let's try to find a recipe where the operator could manipulate the results.

If I understood correctly, it currently work like this:
- You buy a ticket by sending 0.25 BTC to a unique and public address.
- Your ticket number is the hash of this very transaction.
- The winning "ticket" is computed through a public algorithm, from public data (hash of a future bloc + real world lottery).
- When the winning ticket is declared, 99% of what has been sent to the public unique address is sent back to the address used to buy the winning "ticket".

Differences with real life lotteries:
- Anybody can see how many tickets have been purchased at any point.
- The ticket number of all the entrants is publicly available (it's the hash of the tx) and timestamped.

Manipulation scenarios
1 - The operator buys 90% of the tickets, hidden behind a flock of anonymous addresses:
- The operator can do that, drawing after drawing, and constantly secure the gains back to himself.
- To do that, he needs to send 9 times more bitcoins to the public address than what has been sent by all other players.
- But any single player can do it as well. If you want to secure the gains, just buy 90% of the tickets yourself. Since the recipient address is public, you know exactly how much tickets you have to buy.
You don't know how many entering tickets are controlled by a single individual, but you do know how many you control. If you want to improve your chances, you can always do it.

For this specific scenario, I think the bitlotto architecture is robust. (Unlike any real life lottery).

You haven't proven anything. Me buying tons of tickets is not me cheating but me playing the lottery! Everyone is free to buy as many as they want. Each ticket carries the same odds. Its a RAFFLE style lottery! Obviously if you buy more you have a total better chance of winning. Got spare money? Spent 1,000 BTC and you'll likely win! BUT you could also lose. Same for me. I designed it this way so not even I can get better odds than anyone else. Me buying tickets only increases the pot that OTHER people could win. I can't guarantee a win any better than anyone else.

*If I don't pay the legitimate winner everyone would know*. If I win BitLotto it's because I won! (I don't because of stuff like this thread will happen everywhere!) Even if I show I can't cheat there will be people who don't believe!

I'd LOVE to do escrow. Eventually thought someone has to hit "OK" or "PAY", why add more people that have to be trusted when it can be one? I honestly can't think of reducing the trust to no one. Someone or some site is needed. People risk their money to win big. Part of that risk of course is will I pay. As the game goes one this trust will develop. There is no way around it.

So FAR I haven't had a single complaint of cheating! (other than you of course trying to say it's possible) And that's pretty good I think when we are talking about over 1,000 USD and over 100 players!

You're being pedantic. You've taken a casual statement and trying to turn it into a legally binding offer. If you really wanted to take him up on that, the intelligent thing to do would be to ask him to confirm the sincerity of the offer. His "offer" lacked any specifics whatsoever so it is hard to take it seriously as "legally binding". You didn't bet anything in return. You just jumped on it and said "Gotcha! Pay up!".


The lottery owner can take the money at any time, if he chooses to be dishonest. But that has nothing to do with buying tickets. You continue to try to tie buying tickets with cheating. The lottery owner, if he chooses to buy tickets, has no advantage over other ticket buyers, since the block explorer makes all bets public and the method for choosing a winner is pre-determined and verifiable.

If the owner of Mt. Gox wanted to run off with all of the money and bitcoins he has been entrusted with, he could do so at any time.  If the operator of any of the public mining pools wanted to suddenly stop paying out and run off with the mined bitcoins, he could do so at any time. It would be criminal, and it would be obvious.

Thank you for confirming that you did not win the supposed bet.


First of all, you are the one making an accusation that he "may have" bought 130 tickets, it is your job to prove your claim, not anyone else's job to disprove it. Block explorer is out there for anyone to view. Why don't you go and look at all of the bets that were made last month and try to connect some of them together?

Second, suppose he did. Out of 131 tickets, he bought 130. That would mean only one other person spent any bitcoins. So he paid himself 130 bitcoins to win 1 bitcoin. Even if you accept that this is cheating, in this scenario he has only cheating *one* person out of *one* bitcoin.

What you are suggesting is that a lottery operator could bet 130 bitcoins in order to win 1 bitcoin. While it may be possible, it would be a very dumb bet.  Nor does it seem like a scenario worth worrying about.  I'd be much more concerned about the pool operators and exchange operators, who are dealing with much larger sums of money, and don't need to outpay their customers 99 to 1 in order to pull off a fraud.