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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 30421. (Read 26715091 times)

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1070
You either only care about the current price or your a dinosaur academic type.
I am a dinosaur academic type.

I understand enough of the protocol to believe that it is technically sound.  My skepticism is about the economic aspects.

It doesn't bother me that people are speculating (basically, gambling) on a market with very uncertain future -- as long as everybody understands the odds and risks.

It does bother me that Bitcoin is being "sold" by some with rather misleading claims, such as "the supply is limited" (true of Bitcoin, but not of cryptocurrencies in general), "transfers are anonymous", "cannot be stolen or taxed",
 "there are no fees", "banks and governments cannot touch it", etc. 

And it bothers me a lot when speculators turn to Latin America as a promising source of Rich Suckers -- who, they hope, will buy those overpriced Bitcoins that no longer find buyers in China, India, Europe and North America.

Not if I can help it.


I'll just say this. Based on the stereotypes of your misgivings, there is a lot for you to learn about Bitcoin. And if you study long enough your mind will probably change.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
Quote
And it bothers me a lot when speculators turn to Latin America as a promising source of Rich Suckers -- who, they hope, will buy those overpriced Bitcoins that no longer find buyers in China, India, Europe and North America.

Not if I can help it.

Your defiance in the face of an attack on Latin American victims is laudable.  As for your indifference to the Chinese, Indian, European and North American victims - there is a word for that.  I don't know what the word is, but I don't think it's good.

hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Who is going to buy at Overstock using Bitcoin?

  • a) Random Joe who has USD but no Bitcoin;
  • b) Speculator who is trading in order to get hold of as much Bitcoin as he can;
  • c) Speculator who is cashing out and leaving the market;
  • d) Believer who is certain that 1 BTC will be worth 10,000 next year.
  • e) Speculator who is trying to convince others to buy his bitcoins at higher price.

I think the range of types of people is grossly limited. There are many who just want to be part of something new and exciting.

Those are part of (a) or (d) depending on how much faith they have.  The (a)s would have the hassles and losses of converting USD to BTC, a limited choice of merchants, and will have nothing to show for it except the receipt. (A Lamborghini bought through that route looks exactly the same as one bought with USD.)

Or people who have BTC and want to actively spend them on stuff they need.
Those are included (c). (Perhaps I should have said "Miner or Speculator".)  

By the way, spending 1 Bitcoin that is supposed to be worth 10,000 USD next year to buy 900 USD worth of merchandise today is almost a confession that one has lost the Faith.

only if you don't buy another bitcoin via your exchange when you spend one.

EDIT: I think the price, priced in q2 launch of overstock I expect there will be a one week lag or more in the move for those who will want to speculate, those who want to buy on overstock via bitcoin in general, I would just knowing I have to pay 5 bucks for an gift card credit card and or ukash go go bitcoin cutting useless fee's when it can
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
You either only care about the current price or your a dinosaur academic type.
I am a dinosaur academic type.

I understand enough of the protocol to believe that it is technically sound.  My skepticism is about the economic aspects.

It doesn't bother me that people are speculating (basically, gambling) on a market with very uncertain future -- as long as everybody understands the odds and risks.

It does bother me that Bitcoin is being "sold" by some with rather misleading claims, such as "the supply is limited" (true of Bitcoin, but not of cryptocurrencies in general), "transfers are anonymous", "cannot be stolen or taxed",
 "there are no fees", "banks and governments cannot touch it", etc. 

And it bothers me a lot when speculators turn to Latin America as a promising source of Rich Suckers -- who, they hope, will buy those overpriced Bitcoins that no longer find buyers in China, India, Europe and North America.

Not if I can help it.
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
Quote
Why would someone convert USD to BTC if they can buy with USD directly?

Specifically, in response to the question, because that person does not live in the US and does not have easy access to USD, but does have BTC.

Generally, in response to the idea of Overstock accepting BTC, the increase of the number of enterprises, especially well-known, well-heeled enterprises, who accept BTC is a good thing for BTC and bitcoiners.

For BTC to survive beyond the era of mining and the era of speculating, it has to be useful for things, including buying things over the internet.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1006
100 satoshis -> ISO code
overstock is only in the USA right now.

it will be international soon.

This is where the real power of Bitcoin becomes apparent. Overstock should see international sales increase at a faster rate than domestic sales.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
overstock is only in the USA right now.

it will be international soon.

that must be why.

when i hit check out it said " We are passing you to our partner, Borderfree. Your total including all customs, taxes, and shipping will be displayed at checkout."

damn it.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
wtf i cant see the bitcoin payment option on overstock.com  Cry


hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
Who is going to buy at Overstock using Bitcoin?

  • a) Random Joe who has USD but no Bitcoin;
  • b) Speculator who is trading in order to get hold of as much Bitcoin as he can;
  • c) Speculator who is cashing out and leaving the market;
  • d) Believer who is certain that 1 BTC will be worth 10,000 next year.
  • e) Speculator who is trying to convince others to buy his bitcoins at higher price.

I think the range of types of people is grossly limited. There are many who just want to be part of something new and exciting.

Those are part of (a) or (d) depending on how much faith they have.  The (a)s would have the hassles and losses of converting USD to BTC, a limited choice of merchants, and will have nothing to show for it except the receipt. (A Lamborghini bought through that route looks exactly the same as one bought with USD.)

Or people who have BTC and want to actively spend them on stuff they need.
Those are included (c). (Perhaps I should have said "Miner or Speculator".) 

By the way, spending 1 Bitcoin that is supposed to be worth 10,000 USD next year to buy 900 USD worth of merchandise today is almost a confession that one has lost the Faith.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1070
And here I stopped ,  how will average Joe with no BTC purchase something with BTC ?
Please read the rest. Obviously average Joe will NOT care about it. Why would someone convert USD to BTC if they can buy with USD directly?



The basic issue here Jorge is this ---> if you actually believed that it was a good possibility that one day Average Joe would care about bitcoin, then you wouldn't think that the Overstock news was bad.

You don't. You either only care about the current price or your a dinosaur academic type.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
And here I stopped ,  how will average Joe with no BTC purchase something with BTC ?
Please read the rest. Obviously average Joe will NOT care about it. Why would someone convert USD to BTC if they can buy with USD directly?

legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Ultranode
Lol that stamp dump

Huobi went the other way Smiley

I have no idea which way this will go by tomorrow. Could be anywhere, 50/50 for me for now.

When I see stamp leading a drop, it tells me people are taking fiat profits off the exchange, not trading.  Stamp is the place to go for that.  My hunch is those three big dumps we saw at 3:15, 10:45 and 17:15 PST were guys cashing out.  All triggered by the mining centralization issue, in my opinion.

This mining centralization thing is ridiculous. Its not an issue for so many different various reasons, the most obvious one is who wants to take a gun and shoot themselves right between the eyes?  You find me that person who is also a powerful miner and I will start worrying too. Actually I won't. Because the whole issue is retarded mentally handicapped.

If you're content relying on all "powerful miners" having the same interests as you do, there's nothing much more I can say.

Furthermore, it is not necessarily against the interest of bitcoin miners to attack the network. Doing so would cause altcoins to rocket. Investing in them before the attack = early retirement.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1070
Lol that stamp dump

Huobi went the other way Smiley

I have no idea which way this will go by tomorrow. Could be anywhere, 50/50 for me for now.

When I see stamp leading a drop, it tells me people are taking fiat profits off the exchange, not trading.  Stamp is the place to go for that.  My hunch is those three big dumps we saw at 3:15, 10:45 and 17:15 PST were guys cashing out.  All triggered by the mining centralization issue, in my opinion.

This mining centralization thing is ridiculous. Its not an issue for so many different various reasons, the most obvious one is who wants to take a gun and shoot themselves right between the eyes?  You find me that person who is also a powerful miner and I will start worrying too. Actually I won't. Because the whole issue is retarded mentally handicapped.

If you're content relying on all "powerful miners" having the same interests as you do, there's nothing much more I can say.

No. But the current argument goes like this ---> "Oh noos, we have to trust GHash.io!!! What will they do?"

Which they released a press release explaining the obvious truth of what they would do --> protect their business interests by preventing a 51% power.

And then it's "Oh Noooss!!! But what if GHASH.io is owned by a big bank or government!! They could destroy everything!!

To which the answer is, if your really believe that, get the fuck out of bitcoin.

I mean, this is beyond ridiculous.
full member
Activity: 280
Merit: 100
Want to expand on why you think Bitcoin being adopted as a currency and form of payment is bad for bitcoin?

I wanna hear this. It should be fun.
OK, let me try.  Who is going to buy at Overstock using Bitcoin?

  • a) Random Joe who has USD but no Bitcoin;
  • b) Speculator who is trading in order to get hold of as much Bitcoin as he can;
  • c) Speculator who is cashing out and leaving the market;
  • d) Believer who is certain that 1 BTC will be worth 10,000 next year.
  • e) Speculator who is trying to convince others to buy his bitcoins at higher price.

My guess is
  • only a few of (c), namely those who would have bought at Overstock with USD anyway;
  • only a few of (d), namely those who are willing to waste a few of their precious Bitcoins for the Good of the Cause;
  • perhaps some (e);
but in all three cases the total amount of BTC spent will be small; my guess is a couple thousand BTC at most.  So the good news will flop when it becomes public that only 0.01% of Overstock's turnover is in BTC.  On the other hand, all three cases imply cash will leave the market, driving the price down.


I think the range of types of people is grossly limited. There are many who just want to be part of something new and exciting. Or people who have BTC and want to actively spend them on stuff they need. Not just people trying to get the edge on the market.

Meanwhile there is this





sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
Lol that stamp dump

Huobi went the other way Smiley

I have no idea which way this will go by tomorrow. Could be anywhere, 50/50 for me for now.

When I see stamp leading a drop, it tells me people are taking fiat profits off the exchange, not trading.  Stamp is the place to go for that.  My hunch is those three big dumps we saw at 3:15, 10:45 and 17:15 PST were guys cashing out.  All triggered by the mining centralization issue, in my opinion.

This mining centralization thing is ridiculous. Its not an issue for so many different various reasons, the most obvious one is who wants to take a gun and shoot themselves right between the eyes?  You find me that person who is also a powerful miner and I will start worrying too. Actually I won't. Because the whole issue is retarded mentally handicapped.

If you're content relying on all "powerful miners" having the same interests as you do, there's nothing much more I can say.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1070
Want to expand on why you think Bitcoin being adopted as a currency and form of payment is bad for bitcoin?

I wanna hear this. It should be fun.
OK, let me try.  Who is going to buy at Overstock using Bitcoin?

  • a) Random Joe who has USD but no Bitcoin;
The only way Random Joe gets bitcoin in the future is if he sees other people using it, sees applications that allow for him to easily get it and integrate it into his life. He has to have a place to spend it, now he does.
  • b) Speculator who is trading in order to get hold of as much Bitcoin as he can;
  • c) Speculator who is cashing out and leaving the market;
  • d) Believer who is certain that 1 BTC will be worth 10,000 next year.
Yes, there are already examples of this.
  • e) Speculator who is trying to convince others to buy his bitcoins at higher price.

Why are 3 of your 5 speculators. Is it your opinion that most people that own bitcoins are speculators?


My guess is
  • only a few of (c), namely those who would have bought at Overstock with USD anyway;
Not in the future. It has to start somewhere. Is this not obvious or is it just a "never will" or "must happen all at once" thing for you?
  • only a few of (d), namely those who are willing to waste a few of their precious Bitcoins for the Good of the Cause;
 Waste? If they can own something of value now, why hoard? Bitcoin has a value now.
  • perhaps some (e);
but in all three cases the total amount of BTC spent will be small; my guess is a couple thousand BTC at most.  How do you know? Based on what would you say this? Is this just your speculative opinion?

So the good news will flop when it becomes public that only 0.01% of Overstock's turnover is in BTC. 
You think "Random Joe" looks at those stats?

On the other hand, all three cases imply cash will leave the market, driving the price down.

You sound like a speculator yourself. Which, if true, probably explains your opinions. You don't think bitcoin will be universally accepted (by that I mean at least a niche player in the financial industry) thus you feel threatened as a speculator by this news.

hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 501
in defi we trust
Want to expand on why you think Bitcoin being adopted as a currency and form of payment is bad for bitcoin?

I wanna hear this. It should be fun.
OK, let me try.  Who is going to buy at Overstock using Bitcoin?

  • a) Random Joe who has USD but no Bitcoin;


And here I stopped ,  how will average Joe with no BTC purchase something with BTC ?

Second , make your sig font a little bigger

Academic interest in biitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, rather skeptical of its longterm success.

So you never had some btc , you never traded but claim to know about how trade in btc works , and  the last part is no comment.[/list]
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