Topic: Manipulation / ETF's - page 2. (Read 240 times)

Not sure about volumes, but it could take billions perhaps?


I think this is one concern that SEC has raised ever since there's a ETF approval and it's subsequent denial by them. And obviously, they have been established and one of its mandate is to "protects investors against fraudulent and manipulative practices".


Maybe, but the thing though is that those entities that are applying for ETF are very powerful, like BlackRock and Vanguard and maybe there are pressures to SEC more than before to really approved because of this names.

Manipulate bitcoin market is not cheap at all because you are trying to manipulate a market with $854,777,215,245 capitalization, so, even if you join with $1million, $10millions or $100millions, it will be not enough money to make a big difference in the prize.

A good example that we have of market manipulation is what Elon did with Dogecoins, and looks like SEC gives zero fucks about it. So, people don't have to worry about this.

most ETF authorised participants(agents/basket makers) are not going to buy/sell large clumps of coins on the public spot market
they use darkpools.. AKA OTC markets instead

the spot market is for low yield investors to buy small allotments of mostly under 0.001btc per order. where as the darkpools is where the big deals happen between larger investors

the SEC has already spoke with all the ETF applicants about how they will onramp and off ramp their AP agents baskets. whereby they will use darkpools to settle in-cash when offloading bitcoin. and custodians like coinbases OTC darkpool has enough liquidity to cover this.

there are other things like when making a basket to then assign a number of shares, to then offer shares on the ETF platform. for a basket to then be removed requires enough share holders to accumulate enough shares for a basket to then vote to close the shares and return the basket to the custodian in exchange for cash

this alone makes it less easy to close off a basket and cause bitcoins to move out of custody to then enter the spot market. because the custodian will just find new buyers of the baskets on the OTC darkpool

the only times a custodian would then sell unlocked coins to the spot market is if the custodians liquidity of fiat is low and they cant find another basket buyer on the OTC..

other economic things are in play too
rather than a share holder accumulating enough shares to then vote out that allocation to then OTC to fiat that basket. they know they wont get best price on the OTC market. so they are better off not closing the shares to remove them from the ETF but instead just sell the shares within the ETF at the going rate

Is there a general consensus on how much volume it takes to move the BTC market price? 
Is the SEC not worried about market manipulation? 
Is there a legal framework in place to deter / reprimand BTC manipulation? - I realize this could only apply to US patrons.

My theory was that BTC was too susceptible to manipulation to issue an ETF yet.  Apparently I'm wrong, which is understandable, because I make beer for a living...

Any friendly opinions welcome!