Author

Topic: Martin Armstrong Discussion - page 174. (Read 647176 times)

sr. member
Activity: 924
Merit: 311
#TheGoyimKnow
December 09, 2017, 10:02:11 PM
Cryptocurrency either centralizes into complete control faster and more so than anything else, or you just have endless chain forks like bitcoin cash, bitcoin gold, etc. […]  All roads lead to subsidizing your own enslavement.  And this is why I prefer metals.

The endless forking means it can’t be entirely centralized.

It doesn't mean it can't be centralized, it means it's either sentenced to die from diffusion or it becomes centralized by default.  This is why metals are better, you can't make a new gold or silver in your basement then log on bitcointalk and say "I JUST INVENTED ANONYMINT GOLD, BUY THIS SHIT FROM ME STUPID GOYIM", while a million other people do the exact same thing.  Instead of incentive for consensus, there is incentive to diverge from a single chain, an inverse Schelling point if you will.  There is no financial incentive to diverge in metals because the number of noble metals is finite and can't just be invented ad infinitum.

Even if there was no incentive to create new chains in a get rich quick scheme by printing or cornering the supply yourself and saying "my chain is 1% better than the others, buy it", the inverse Schelling point in crypto would still remain because scaling is terrible due to the so called triple entry accounting (but it's not exactly triple entry accounting if it becomes entirely centralized now is it?).  Since scaling is terrible, fees are non-trivial and usurious, so people would bunny hop from one to another infinitely to prevent having usury levied upon them, which is why many people are sending transactions with things like Litecoin right now.

The only way consensus would be achieved in crypto is by force, the pointing a gun at you and saying you're required to use so and so chain, otherwise everything dies from diffusion (which is a good thing since the noble metals are better in all aspects anyway).  That is unless bitcoin forever remains some type of small, niche, regulatory arbitrage product for a few people to buy drugs on an internet site.  In that case, the internet site itself is forcing consensus by saying they will only accept so and so cryptocurrency.  Unless all 1st world govts collapse to shambles, regulatory arbitrage in this manner will be crushed for cryptocurrency if they maintain anything resembling current power levels, though.  Instead of the internet drug site forcing consensus on a cryptocurrency, it will be the govt.


SUBJECT: Absolute best whole wheat cracker I ever tasted

Eating granola that looks like this.  I'm guessing it tastes better and has more nutritional benefits than women's diet crackers.

http://images.media-allrecipes.com/userphotos/560x315/639760.jpg

Also went and greatly expanded upon the god vs entropy problem:

https://steemit.com/science/@r0achtheunsavory/the-r0ach-report-25-computer-science-proves-the-existence-of-a-variable-known-as-god-but-not-what-god-actually-is
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
December 09, 2017, 09:17:08 PM
Cryptocurrency either centralizes into complete control faster and more so than anything else, or you just have endless chain forks like bitcoin cash, bitcoin gold, etc. […]  All roads lead to subsidizing your own enslavement.  And this is why I prefer metals.

The endless forking means it can’t be entirely centralized. The fungible value will always be sucked into the center (i.e. Zionists who control the reserve currency Bitcoin), but remember my (AnonyMint’s) seminal essay is that knowledge production can’t be extracted with fungible finance. I keep repeating this and it keeps flying right over your head. You may never grok it.

Fungible money and the fixed capital investment industrial age is dying.

If you don't want to live in an unwinnable casino gulag, metals wins again because shorting to cost of production just gives you a free money buying opportunity.

Only for metals which sit in your basement and are entirely useless. As soon as you need to actually spend them as money, then you will always be right back in the Zionists’ fungible money system.




SUBJECT: Absolute best whole wheat cracker I ever tasted

The Hi-fiber wheat ones have no sugar added and very thick with many crevices inside. Simply awesome with tuna:

https://i.imgur.com/idQNvkN.jpg

http://archive.is/https://www.lazada.com.ph/jacob39s-low-sodium-hi-fibre-cracker-750g-45037620.html

http://www.unitedbiscuits.com/our-brands/jacobs/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob%27s
sr. member
Activity: 1652
Merit: 262
December 09, 2017, 07:37:06 PM
I told you upthread that fungible monetary systems are the property of Satan.

Unless you're trying to channel Coincube over here, it's kind of ludicrous you claim to know what god is.

Satan can be characterized as the collective failure of humans, e.g. as it says in the Bible that 666 is the number of a man.

The images of Satan as some devilish creature can be construed to be an attempt to visualize this collective failure. It doesn’t necessarily mean that Satan is that creature.

We should also define failure in this context. Failure is an integral facet of the inexorable universal trend towards maximum entropy. Fungible systems tend towards top-down, economies-of-scale, thus must eventually be destroyed by creative destruction in order for maximum entropy to progress. Yet they are expedient and necessary along the way. They for example harbor stability for a while.

Just to clarify I have most certainly never claimed to know what God is. Infact I claimed the opposite that we not only do not know what God is with reason we can never know.  God is an apriori Truth.

Since my position was not understood below is my position on God. An empirical argument for religion.

Empiric Argument for Religion

1) Belief in God is logical in that the belief is internally consistent and cannot be falsified. This conclusion can be derived in numerous ways one of which is via the application of incompleteness theorem.
See: The #1 Mathematical Discovery of the 20th Century

2) All knowledge ultimately traces back to assumed axioms. Without knowledge, scientific enquiry including empiric enquiry is meaningless and we can’t analyse the world around us.

3) Our fundamental metaphysical first axioms are therefore a critical step in the formation of a sound empirical model of the universe and our place within it.
See: Metaphysical Attitudes

4) Human progress and civilization requires the growth of knowledge and is ultimately cooperation dependent. Our first premises and axioms directly impact the degree of cooperation that the system can support.
See: Superrationality and the Infinite

5) Competing first axioms such as nihilism may grant "freedom" to do whatever you want but for humanity as a whole this is an illusion and such axioms reduce overall freedom.
See: Freedom and God

6) Thus the first axiom of God is not only largely responsible for the progress we have made so far it in all is likely necessary for continued progress.
See: Religion and Progress
and
See: Faith and Future

7) Finally and least important accepting the first axiom of God appears to be correlated with good health.  
See: Health and Religion

8 ) For these reasons accepting the first axiom of God is a superior choice for the empiricist then accepting the first axiom of nihilism or refusing to define ones metaphysics.

Anonymints description of Satan above is very similar to my own limited understanding and interpretation.
I am not familiar with this discussion. does this explain the science of economics and its relation to belief in God?
can you explain in detail to me?
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
December 09, 2017, 07:26:40 PM
I told you upthread that fungible monetary systems are the property of Satan.

Unless you're trying to channel Coincube over here, it's kind of ludicrous you claim to know what god is.

Satan can be characterized as the collective failure of humans, e.g. as it says in the Bible that 666 is the number of a man.

The images of Satan as some devilish creature can be construed to be an attempt to visualize this collective failure. It doesn’t necessarily mean that Satan is that creature.

Just to clarify I have most certainly never claimed to know what God is. Infact I claimed the opposite that we not only do not know what God is with reason we can never know.  God is an apriori Truth.

Since my position was not understood below is my position on God. An empirical argument for religion.

Empiric Argument for Religion

1) Belief in God is logical in that the belief is internally consistent and cannot be falsified. This conclusion can be derived in numerous ways one of which is via the application of incompleteness theorem.
See: The #1 Mathematical Discovery of the 20th Century

2) All knowledge ultimately traces back to assumed axioms. Without knowledge, scientific enquiry including empiric enquiry is meaningless and we can’t analyse the world around us.

3) Our fundamental metaphysical first axioms are therefore a critical step in the formation of a sound empirical model of the universe and our place within it.
See: Metaphysical Attitudes

4) Human progress and civilization requires the growth of knowledge and is ultimately cooperation dependent. Our first premises and axioms directly impact the degree of cooperation that the system can support.
See: Superrationality and the Infinite

5) Competing first axioms such as nihilism may grant "freedom" to do whatever you want but for humanity as a whole this is an illusion and such axioms reduce overall freedom.
See: Freedom and God

6) Thus the first axiom of God is not only largely responsible for the progress we have made so far it in all is likely necessary for continued progress.
See: Religion and Progress
and
See: Faith and Future

7) Finally and least important accepting the first axiom of God appears to be correlated with good health.  
See: Health and Religion

8 ) For these reasons accepting the first axiom of God is a superior choice for the empiricist then accepting the first axiom of nihilism or refusing to define ones metaphysics.

Anonymints description of Satan above is very similar to my own limited understanding and interpretation.
sr. member
Activity: 924
Merit: 311
#TheGoyimKnow
December 09, 2017, 06:26:58 PM
I'm also surprised I'm the only person I've seen (I talked about this many times before) that the jews naked shorting bitcoin is 1000x worse for bitcoin than it is for metals:

After launch of bitcoin at CBOE futures

Then bitcoin becomes a casino gulag where the house always wins and there is no reason to go near it instead of metals.  In metals they can only naked short it to cost of production.  In bitcoin, cost of production is fully floating and recursive based on it's own demand via hashrate, so they can literally naked short it to 0 instead of some type of cost of production floor because no such thing even exists in bitcoin.  Shorting metals below cost of production causes miners to stop bringing gold and silver to market, so it's counterintuitive because it would just create scarcity, so they don't do it (or at least not for long periods of time).  Shorting bitcoin below cost of production forces miners to turn off, thus lowering the temporary cost of production floor even further while the supply from miners recirculating coins remains unchanged.  This is why naked shorting is FAR MORE detrimental to bitcoin than metals.

If you don't want to live in an unwinnable casino gulag, metals wins again because shorting to cost of production just gives you a free money buying opportunity.
sr. member
Activity: 924
Merit: 311
#TheGoyimKnow
December 09, 2017, 05:53:15 PM
I don't know what your argument is here.  Failure to help the universe limp towards heat death is a human malfunction?  I don't know what you're trying to say.  If there was a benefit in doing what you claim, then wouldn't you, yourself climb into a rocket launched towards space and then set it to explode soon after reaching orbit to spread pieces of Anonymint around and infect as many random parts of the galaxy as possible?  It seemed like you were trying to say there is some type of unified goal of all things to maximize entropy where none really exists.  You're definitely not practicing what you preach here or you would have to impersonate a late stage sun and blow yourself up.

Failure in that context is just what it is, as so defined in my prior post. Fungible systems are long-tail fragile (but near-term antifragile1) because they tend to centralized control. Period. Decentralized systems are near-term fragile but long-term resilient and antifragile.

I’m not inserting a moralistic (universal goal) argument.

1 Credit @CoinCube with pointing that out years ago.

Cryptocurrency either centralizes into complete control faster and more so than anything else, or you just have endless chain forks like bitcoin cash, bitcoin gold, etc (aka altcoins but bitcoin itself is already an altcoin since it's been forked numerous times).  This means there will either be no Schelling point whatsoever and everything dies from diffusion, or the only thing that lives will be federated chains run by the state.  This is why nobody should support anything to do with cryptocurrency.  All roads lead to subsidizing your own enslavement.  And this is why I prefer metals.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
December 09, 2017, 05:39:11 PM
I don't know what your argument is here.  Failure to help the universe limp towards heat death is a human malfunction?  I don't know what you're trying to say.  If there was a benefit in doing what you claim, then wouldn't you, yourself climb into a rocket launched towards space and then set it to explode soon after reaching orbit to spread pieces of Anonymint around and infect as many random parts of the galaxy as possible?  It seemed like you were trying to say there is some type of unified goal of all things to maximize entropy where none really exists.  You're definitely not practicing what you preach here or you would have to impersonate a late stage sun and blow yourself up.

Failure in that context is just what it is, as so defined in my prior post. Fungible systems are long-tail fragile (but near-term antifragile1) because they tend to centralized control. Period. Decentralized systems are near-term fragile (because they can lose focus/organization on some information) but long-term resilient and antifragile.

I’m not inserting a moralistic (universal goal) argument. Nature is a mix of near-term progress via top-down organization (e.g. species selection) and long-term resilience via decentralized fitness (e.g. cultural transfer):2

Only Dark Age I could imagine would be if we somehow made ourselves extinct by meddling in our genome. Our rate of technological+cultural evolution is moving much faster than the species selection process of evolution can anneal, so it is possible we could loose too much information and create a huge accidental extinction (a concept that argues against too much decentralization which @CoinCube had first pointed out to me with a biological model). The paradigm is Transhumanism.

1 Credit @CoinCube with pointing that out years ago.

2 Note how species selection is also decentralized w.r.t. all species while being top-down w.r.t. to members of a species. Conversely note that cultural transfer is long-term resilient w.r.t. to members of the species but doesn’t necessary address inter-species fitness. Thus the perspective on what is top-down or decentralized is also relativistic, i.e. fractal patterns within patterns which oscillate between local effects and entanglement at a distance. This is what I want to explore next for a TOE.


P.S. Fitness requires a relativistic interpretation of reality:

" ... an organism tuned to fitness might see small and large quantities of some resource as, say, red, to indicate low fitness, whereas they might see intermediate quantities as green, to indicate high fitness. Its perceptions will be tuned to fitness, but not to truth. It won't see any distinction between small and large — it only sees red — even though such a distinction exists in reality."
sr. member
Activity: 924
Merit: 311
#TheGoyimKnow
December 09, 2017, 05:24:36 PM
I don't know what your argument is here.  Failure to help the universe limp towards heat death is a human malfunction?  I don't know what you're trying to say.  If there was a benefit in doing what you claim, then wouldn't you, yourself climb into a rocket launched towards space and then set it to explode soon after reaching orbit to spread pieces of Anonymint around and infect as many random parts of the galaxy as possible?  It seemed like you were trying to say there is some type of unified goal of all things to maximize entropy where none really exists.  You're definitely not practicing what you preach here or you would have to impersonate a late stage sun and blow yourself up.
sr. member
Activity: 924
Merit: 311
#TheGoyimKnow
December 09, 2017, 05:04:23 PM
I told you upthread that fungible monetary systems are the property of Satan.

Unless you're trying to channel Coincube over here, it's kind of ludicrous you claim to know what god is.

Satan can be characterized as the collective failure of humans, i.e. as it says in the Bible that 666 is the number of a man.

The images of Satan as some devilish creature can be construed to be an attempt to visualize this collective failure. It doesn’t mean that Satan is that creature.

Now you are really trying to channel Coincube.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
December 09, 2017, 05:00:31 PM
I told you upthread that fungible monetary systems are the property of Satan.

Unless you're trying to channel Coincube over here, it's kind of ludicrous you claim to know what god is.

Satan can be characterized as the collective failure of humans, e.g. as it says in the Bible that 666 is the number of a man.

The images of Satan as some devilish creature can be construed to be an attempt to visualize this collective failure. It doesn’t necessarily mean that Satan is that creature.

We should also define failure in this context. Failure is an integral facet of the inexorable universal trend towards maximum entropy. Fungible systems tend towards top-down, economies-of-scale, thus must eventually be destroyed by creative destruction in order for maximum entropy to progress. Yet they are expedient and necessary along the way. They for example harbor stability for a while.
sr. member
Activity: 924
Merit: 311
#TheGoyimKnow
December 09, 2017, 04:37:31 PM
I told you upthread that fungible monetary systems are the property of Satan.

Unless you're trying to channel Coincube over here, it's kind of ludicrous you claim to know what god is.  I define the prime mover of the universe as gravity + the non-uniform distribution of matter.  For the non-uniform distribution of matter to exist, an entropy source had to exist on the other side of the big bang.  That entropy source is what I define as "god".  Whether "god" is a just a math variable (random number generator), person, linux VM admin, or whatever you want to claim it is, is pretty much unknowable.  Instead of "god does not play dice", god might be dice.  

The ability to create real random numbers might be the ultimate power and the only real power god has.  That is, unless the universe is deterministic, and then it would just be a puppeteer or something and you're not actually thinking or making choices anyway.  I'm going to lean towards the idea that real randomness was enacted because it would be a pointless exercise otherwise unless everything you see is the equivalent of a video game or movie for someone else's entertainment, but the latter is also still a possibility.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
December 09, 2017, 04:24:35 PM
You’re going to miss out on $1 million per BTC in 2026 with your silly tinfoil hat precious metals delusion.

You're promoting a cuckold movement:

[…]

I told you upthread that fungible monetary systems are the property of Satan. You’re wasting your time idolizing shiny pieces of metal thinking that is a solution to anything.

We’re moving into a knowledge age. I will not repeat all the upthread explanations and links. Readers can scroll back.
Gold still has its own issues with repatriation and trust of custodions. Crypto solves the problems in a much better way although its not perfect (ideal) its the closest we got (asymptotically)
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
December 09, 2017, 04:02:43 PM
You’re going to miss out on $1 million per BTC in 2026 with your silly tinfoil hat precious metals delusion.

You're promoting a cuckold movement:

[…]

I told you upthread that fungible monetary systems are the property of Satan. You’re wasting your time idolizing shiny pieces of metal thinking that is a solution to anything.

We’re moving into a knowledge age. I will not repeat all the upthread explanations and links. Readers can scroll back.
member
Activity: 158
Merit: 16
December 09, 2017, 03:07:12 PM
seems we have TWO economies running -

a new rising Virtual world economy with no boundaries and

And the old Real world economy with borders and laws

As the Virtual Economy grows and more and more participate a need for ONe virtual currency increases.
 A single supporting legislation on Such Virtual economy will also be needed.

I’m not a expert in technology (I’m a Virtual World Refugee) I don’t know anything.
But biggest difference I see between crypto currencies and real world Paper / Metals is that the Cryptocurrencies  are not subject to geographical boundaries nor affected by central bank interest rates changes - and easily outside of Tax.

The young folks and next generation are very comfortable and spend more time in Virtual Economy than the Real World.   So I see this as a new empire but without borders.    In old times when An empire started - the architect/ Engineer/ resources miners were in high demand / law enforcement/ armies  - today I speculate that TECH sector wages are out pacing other sectors as they build this new empire - their law enforcement you can say are the System security / forensics experts / developers / miners / System database designers etc

Virtual World vs Real World


God Bless
sr. member
Activity: 924
Merit: 311
#TheGoyimKnow
December 09, 2017, 02:41:09 PM
You’re going to miss out on $1 million per BTC in 2026 with your silly tinfoil hat precious metals delusion.[/size]

You're promoting a cuckold movement:

Bitcoin is a cuckold movement.  It's claimed to be decentralized yet it's entirely controlled by a couple companies like Bitmain and Blockstream - a corporation coin in other words.  There's not many excuses people can make for Bitmain, but people are going to claim Blockstream is "decentralized" or some nonsense, or that it's a "benevolent dictatorship".  I don't really care what you call it, it's still a technocracy and a technocracy is not decentralized.  

If people are going to claim bitcoin requires a round table group to constantly adjust and make changes to it daily, then that already shows it was a scam from the start since it was a dictatorial technocracy by default that would eventually just be absorbed by TPTB that already exist.  So the development/administrative side of bitcoin is designed to completely centralize into monopoly, while the mining side (PoW) is also designed to do the exact same thing. Anyone with any type of macro perspective is flat out lying if they claim it's possible to create a decentralized digital currency.  Their inevitable evolution will always be centrally administered slave instruments.  Gold and silver do not have these problems.
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1660
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
December 09, 2017, 02:28:40 AM
Armstrong is going to add Bitcoin to his Socrates project (his supercomputer looking at financial cycles):

Doesn't really understand it yet though. From your article: "Bitcoin should swap everything to shares...".
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1865
December 09, 2017, 02:06:24 AM
...

Armstrong is going to add Bitcoin to his Socrates project (his supercomputer looking at financial cycles):

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/cryptocurrency/bitcoin-is-it-here-to-stay/

He is doing so because his customers want him to.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
December 09, 2017, 12:46:28 AM
And you think things like transaction fees and load capacity have zero effect on that?  That price just magically always increases in a 45 degree line?  You're trying to apply Metcalfe's law to something that's already virtually topped out in terms of load capacity.  I mean, Hall Finney already said bitcoin is useless except as a settlement network years ago.  For something like Metcalfe's law to apply when it's a settlement layer, it means govts would have to adopt the thing as the world reserve currency, otherwise it's not exactly having any interaction at all with most of the world's inhabitants.

The transaction volume layer doesn’t need to be on the Bitcoin blockchain nor necessarily even offchain! And yes Bitcoin will be the NWO reserve currency as designed by the Zionists who control it.

You’re going to miss out on $1 million per BTC in 2026 with your silly tinfoil hat precious metals delusion.


Those mumbling at TMSR (trilema.com) represent millions of BTC.

It actually doesn’t matter who is running their client now. What matters is that millions of BTC believes Bitcoin has no value if it can be mutated, because the smart people understand that Bitcoin is more valuable as a reserve currency of the wealthy, because the wealthy matter and the masses (sheep to be harvested) do not (in a paradigm that is not decentralized, which proof-of-work can never be!). That is just economics. Even Trump understands it:

Most importantly, a big tax cut (from 35% to 20%) is planned for the corporations which will make the U.S. society richer, especially in the long run. Companies are the places that can use extra cash most effectively – partially as an investment allocated by some of America's best managers – which is why the lowering of their taxes is the best investment for the whole. Everyone who fails to get this simple point of trickle-down or supply side economics is just an economics (and history) crackpot. Try to cover it by your left-wing beliefs or anything else but it's actually crackpottery that is behind it.

However, the “bigger fish eat the little fish” paradigm doesn’t scale to only one big fish that ate everything (this is why the Zionists ultimately fail), i.e. even though wealth is power-law distributed, still 50% remains with the minnows (but they can’t organize themselves politically and thus precisely why we need true decentralization). Thus I still continue working on my altcoin protocol.


I will need to study the technological security of those instant offchain  “cross chain” swaps. I expect to find security weakness of the sort of game theory attacks I mentioned about Mt. Box settlement spikes on chain. In any case, any altcoin which enables Lightning Network (LN) is going to subject to the threat of volume spikes due to Mt. Box. If an altcoin is not threatened by that (because it can handle nearly any volume such as the design I am working on), then it doesn’t need LN any way!

Yes altcoins can already do transactions much cheaper than Bitcoin and that doesn’t matter. Bitcoin’s transaction volume demand will always continue to increase because BTC is the reserve currency of crypto and so everyone wants to bank their profits in their unit-of-account which is BTC.

Bitcoin’s transaction market share will drop precipitously, but it’s share of the economic pie of crypto will remain very significant and grow because of the reason I stated. BTC miners/whales do not care about transaction volume, they care about value of the transactions and thus the amount of fees that those whose transacts fit within 1MB block size can afford to pay. For example, when every BTC transaction is $10 million, then a $5000 fee per transaction will not be a problem.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
December 08, 2017, 11:52:47 PM
The log target is $100k just sayin.. give it a month or so.

Show me a chart that has that target projection drawn on it.

The adoption rate has to slow in percentage terms. Oak tree seeds grow to saplings quickly rapidly, but not to the moon.

Although I can say that that slowing can be accounted for significantly in the longer duration of the U-bottom from 2013 – 2018 as compared to 2011 – 2013. So it’s not entirely implausible. Peak-to-peak appears to project less than $100k though.



He better prepare some hot sauce. No way BTC hits $1 million by 2020.

The more likely time frame for BTC to reach $1 million is 2024 – 2026.
Theres a thread on here i follow but mainly my own analysis. I predicted 10k would come when it was 400ish around the time roach was complaining about insivible hands shorting and when trump came I knew that was a catalyst. Log chart usually jumps by 2 by I knew 10k log4 was a tough nut and if we went above to 11 or more and retraced it was 2 log jumps again most likely. So it went to 11.3 and retraced and here we are targetting 25k which is quarter way to log 5. Alt flavor may catch to give btc a chance to breathe.

I saw the swings when 11xx hit during mtgox and planned accordingly.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
December 08, 2017, 11:22:37 PM
The log target is $100k just sayin.. give it a month or so.

Show me a chart that has that target projection drawn on it.

The adoption rate has to slow in percentage terms. Oak tree seeds grow to saplings quite rapidly, but not to the moon.

Although I can say that that slowing can be accounted for significantly in the longer duration of the U-bottom from 2013 – 2018 as compared to 2011 – 2013. So it’s not entirely implausible. Peak-to-peak appears to project less than $100k though.



He better prepare some hot sauce. No way BTC hits $1 million by 2020.

The more likely time frame for BTC to reach $1 million is 2024 – 2026.
Jump to: