JR, the spec doesn't mention anything about confirmations - have you put much thought into when we would consider a mastercoin transaction confirmed? 3 blocks? 6 blocks? Thanks
Tachikoma, while I was doing some comparisons between my work and your (great btw) block explorer - I noticed a minor bug in your block reporting - eg transaction http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/3dcdf1a51ad844ef305a95a08d57e8f2027125bcf982cc0ae6767d0d629b5648 is reported as being included in block 260564 but as of now the network is only up to block 259203.
Topic: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address” - page 117. (Read 448492 times)
September 21, 2013, 06:27:41 AM
September 21, 2013, 04:31:24 AM
With P2SH, the MasterCoin data could be stored in the input scriptSig, as a part of redeeming. This may be unworkable, because the MasterCoin data would only be revealed when you spend a MasterCoin, and not when you receive a MasterCoin.
Mastercoin protocol is message-based, i.e Mastercoin is sent when message is published in the blockchain.
It doesn't use Bitcoin transaction graph in any way, Mastercoins are not tied to any particular UTXOs. In other words, Mastercoins do not exist within the Bitcoin blockchain, blockchain is only used as a communication medium.
So P2SH will work (sender needs to create two transactions to send mastercoins: one which pays to script hash, and another which publishes the message in the inputs).
But just using multisig outputs works too: when user A sends coins to user B, multi-sig script he creates can include public key of user A. So he can later spend this output and use coins for other Mastercoin transaction. Hence we'll have one multi-sig UTXO per user, which is hardly a problem.
If it is a problem, it is possible to enforce use of P2SH+multisig, but it has higher overhead because two Bitcoin transactions are needed to represent one Mastercoin transaction.
September 21, 2013, 04:19:17 AM
With P2SH, the MasterCoin data could be stored in the input scriptSig, as a part of redeeming. This may be unworkable, because the MasterCoin data would only be revealed when you spend a MasterCoin, and not when you receive a MasterCoin.
Before deciding on a spec I think we should exhaust every option presented to us. I will see if I can find a way of doing it via P2SH if that really is the best way to prevent any type of bloat. If that is indeed not possible I suggest we switch to multisig encryption until OP_RETURN becomes available at what time we can switch back to using address encoded data.Note that Jeff doesn't know how MasterCoin protocol works, I think he thinks that it is similar to colored coin approach, but it is not!
(The difference is that with colored coins you have to spend a specific UTXO, but with MasterCoin you can spend any coin.)
It is possible to spend multisig outputs right away, hence they don't need to be in UTXO set. But users are not required to spend these outputs right away, so the concern that they will hang in the UTXO space remains.
If we want to absolutely prevent the possibility of bloating, P2SH+multisig seems to be the best option. It might have slightly higher storage overhead, but it is guaranteed to not store anything in UTXO set.
So taking this into account, what we get:
1. Plain multisig is a viable option. Bloat prevention can be a policy of client: it should spend these multisig outputs either right away, or after some time.
2. P2SH+multisig is possible and easy to implement, but it isn't clear if it is necessary. In any case, it is easy to add support for it.
3. OP_RETURN offers NO advantages, only disadvantages. it shouldn't even be considered.
(EDIT: well, OP_RETURN has one advantage: it makes Bitcoins more valuable through monetary deflation
September 21, 2013, 03:42:51 AM
I thought this thread would have died long ago considering the valid criticisms at the start of the thread but maybe I was too close minded.
Is someone willing to summarise why Mastercoin is a good investment? What's the potential? And why?
Is someone willing to summarise why Mastercoin is a good investment? What's the potential? And why?
I feel this is incredibly important. It would help to clear some of the fog and confusion around this project and maybe take some of the rhetoric out of the dialogue. The white paper is one thing, but many people wont read it, won't quite understand it, or will misunderstand the projects purpose/intention. Much of it is somewhat ambiguous. I say this from my experience having conversations with people about Mastercoin. A format that's easy to disseminate with the purpose, direction, objectives and technical function of the project that's concise and easily digestible but still covers enough ground to get a good grasp on the overall concepts. Frankly, I'm not even clear on many of these things. Maybe it would be a good thought excersize for those involved and help define these things for themselves as well.
Your right, there should be a video to explain the funcionality of mastercoin would be helpful for most people, in a similar style as the one made on bitcoin and the one made for ripple
like this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEbCbp1vc9Y
September 20, 2013, 06:25:44 PM
Noticed of proposed expenditure of project funds:
David Johnston (angel investor and MasterCoin Foundation Board member) has filed the official paperwork to register the MasterCoin Foundation as a non-profit in the state of Delaware (for reasons outlined in his email below). I will be reimbursing the $1042 he spent on this to his bitcoin address: 1AHXnT1eLRfBv7WZXcHNzomjETBFLrw3yx
I will probably send this on Monday.
Probably nobody will question this expense, but he did also send me the receipt for this transaction if it somehow becomes contentious.
David Johnston (angel investor and MasterCoin Foundation Board member) has filed the official paperwork to register the MasterCoin Foundation as a non-profit in the state of Delaware (for reasons outlined in his email below). I will be reimbursing the $1042 he spent on this to his bitcoin address: 1AHXnT1eLRfBv7WZXcHNzomjETBFLrw3yx
I will probably send this on Monday.
Quote
J.R.,
Good questions.
As for the reimbursement funds it would be nice to be reimbursed sooner than later.
As for Delaware it is the go to state for incorporation because of its business friendly laws, its low incorporation fees, its low annual franchise fee, (about $150 USD), and how quickly they turn around paperwork. The vast majority of the U.S. Fortune 500 are incorporated in Delaware (plus 95% of new incorporations are done) for these reasons. And as you can pick any state you want its the best choice hands down.
I paid an extra $85 to get the paperwork completed in 7 to 10 days instead of the normal 35 business days. I also signed us up for a Registered Agent in Delaware (about $150 per year).
I also filed for our Federal Tax ID number. I also filed for our Tax Exempt Status. I also signed us up for a Bank of America account for the Foundation when the incorporation is complete.
As for Treasurer, it only means what ever definition we assign to it. For the forms I had to fill out the officers of record, which can all be one person. I did myself as I had my address handy and of course we can update the President, Treasurer, and Secretary roles and what ever we want to assign to those roles by a simple Board vote when the docs come in.
Let me know if you have other questions, I've been through this about 10 times with incorporating different entities (mostly LLCs and C-Type corporations) over the years, though this is my first non-profit. The process proved exactly the same, with the addition of the Tax Exempt Application.
Talk with you soon.
Best Regards,
David A. Johnston
BitAngels.co
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 3:42 PM, J.R. Willett wrote:
Board: please be advised of David's proposed reimbursement of $1042 (see below) for incorporating the non-profit MasterCoin Foundation. If I don't hear any objections, I plan to pay this expense out of project funds the next time the Exodus Address makes a payment.
David, do you want to get paid right away, or do you want to wait for the next payment to go out? I was going to ask Mich to wait until I paid out to the winners of the coding contest, but $1042 is a lot of money to leave hanging like that
Also, I don't recall you saying - is there something special about incorporating in the state of Delaware? Any idea how long it will be until the paperwork is processed?
Lastly, what does "treasurer" mean in this context? (Once we get m-of-n signing, aren't we all treasurers?)
Thanks!
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Johnston
Date: Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 1:25 PM
J.R.,
I'm glad to get this all formalized and in place.
The paperwork is now filed with Legal Zoom for our Delaware Incorporation of Mastercoin Foundation Inc.
Filing as a Non-Profit cost a little more ($1,042) than normal because they have to do our Tax Exempt Status. But its still not bad normally a lawyer would cost $4,000 to $5,000 for the same service of doing the incorporation, getting the Federal Tax ID and filing for Tax Exempt status.
Attached is the total. Please remit that total in BTC to this Coinbase address for the reimbursement.
1AHXnT1eLRfBv7WZXcHNzomjETBFLrw3yx
Thanks.
David A. Johnston
BitAngels.co
Good questions.
As for the reimbursement funds it would be nice to be reimbursed sooner than later.
As for Delaware it is the go to state for incorporation because of its business friendly laws, its low incorporation fees, its low annual franchise fee, (about $150 USD), and how quickly they turn around paperwork. The vast majority of the U.S. Fortune 500 are incorporated in Delaware (plus 95% of new incorporations are done) for these reasons. And as you can pick any state you want its the best choice hands down.
I paid an extra $85 to get the paperwork completed in 7 to 10 days instead of the normal 35 business days. I also signed us up for a Registered Agent in Delaware (about $150 per year).
I also filed for our Federal Tax ID number. I also filed for our Tax Exempt Status. I also signed us up for a Bank of America account for the Foundation when the incorporation is complete.
As for Treasurer, it only means what ever definition we assign to it. For the forms I had to fill out the officers of record, which can all be one person. I did myself as I had my address handy and of course we can update the President, Treasurer, and Secretary roles and what ever we want to assign to those roles by a simple Board vote when the docs come in.
Let me know if you have other questions, I've been through this about 10 times with incorporating different entities (mostly LLCs and C-Type corporations) over the years, though this is my first non-profit. The process proved exactly the same, with the addition of the Tax Exempt Application.
Talk with you soon.
Best Regards,
David A. Johnston
BitAngels.co
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 3:42 PM, J.R. Willett wrote:
Board: please be advised of David's proposed reimbursement of $1042 (see below) for incorporating the non-profit MasterCoin Foundation. If I don't hear any objections, I plan to pay this expense out of project funds the next time the Exodus Address makes a payment.
David, do you want to get paid right away, or do you want to wait for the next payment to go out? I was going to ask Mich to wait until I paid out to the winners of the coding contest, but $1042 is a lot of money to leave hanging like that
Also, I don't recall you saying - is there something special about incorporating in the state of Delaware? Any idea how long it will be until the paperwork is processed?
Lastly, what does "treasurer" mean in this context? (Once we get m-of-n signing, aren't we all treasurers?)
Thanks!
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Johnston
Date: Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 1:25 PM
J.R.,
I'm glad to get this all formalized and in place.
The paperwork is now filed with Legal Zoom for our Delaware Incorporation of Mastercoin Foundation Inc.
Filing as a Non-Profit cost a little more ($1,042) than normal because they have to do our Tax Exempt Status. But its still not bad normally a lawyer would cost $4,000 to $5,000 for the same service of doing the incorporation, getting the Federal Tax ID and filing for Tax Exempt status.
Attached is the total. Please remit that total in BTC to this Coinbase address for the reimbursement.
1AHXnT1eLRfBv7WZXcHNzomjETBFLrw3yx
Thanks.
David A. Johnston
BitAngels.co
Probably nobody will question this expense, but he did also send me the receipt for this transaction if it somehow becomes contentious.
non-profit benefiting who? also of this so call angel investor group really believes in you why is he stressing you for the bread like that?=)rant onnnn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_investor
September 20, 2013, 05:50:07 PM
where is that thread? this is trippy
the alt coin mastercoin is at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-mastercoin-mst-sync-problems-fixed-updated-9-sept-2013-242406
Remember this thread is the new layer protocol mastercoin, and that link is the alt coin mastercoin
says who? lmao this sounds like a bigger problem imo than all this bitcoin blockchain monkeybusiness~ SOMEONE JACKED THE MASTERCOIN NAME!!!!!!
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
This bull will try to shake you off. Hold tight!
September 20, 2013, 05:43:19 PM
I thought this thread would have died long ago considering the valid criticisms at the start of the thread but maybe I was too close minded.
Is someone willing to summarise why Mastercoin is a good investment? What's the potential? And why?
Is someone willing to summarise why Mastercoin is a good investment? What's the potential? And why?
September 20, 2013, 04:11:27 PM
Noticed of proposed expenditure of project funds:
David Johnston (angel investor and MasterCoin Foundation Board member) has filed the official paperwork to register the MasterCoin Foundation as a non-profit in the state of Delaware (for reasons outlined in his email below). I will be reimbursing the $1042 he spent on this to his bitcoin address: 1AHXnT1eLRfBv7WZXcHNzomjETBFLrw3yx
I will probably send this on Monday.
Probably nobody will question this expense, but he did also send me the receipt for this transaction if it somehow becomes contentious.
David Johnston (angel investor and MasterCoin Foundation Board member) has filed the official paperwork to register the MasterCoin Foundation as a non-profit in the state of Delaware (for reasons outlined in his email below). I will be reimbursing the $1042 he spent on this to his bitcoin address: 1AHXnT1eLRfBv7WZXcHNzomjETBFLrw3yx
I will probably send this on Monday.
Quote
J.R.,
Good questions.
As for the reimbursement funds it would be nice to be reimbursed sooner than later.
As for Delaware it is the go to state for incorporation because of its business friendly laws, its low incorporation fees, its low annual franchise fee, (about $150 USD), and how quickly they turn around paperwork. The vast majority of the U.S. Fortune 500 are incorporated in Delaware (plus 95% of new incorporations are done) for these reasons. And as you can pick any state you want its the best choice hands down.
I paid an extra $85 to get the paperwork completed in 7 to 10 days instead of the normal 35 business days. I also signed us up for a Registered Agent in Delaware (about $150 per year).
I also filed for our Federal Tax ID number. I also filed for our Tax Exempt Status. I also signed us up for a Bank of America account for the Foundation when the incorporation is complete.
As for Treasurer, it only means what ever definition we assign to it. For the forms I had to fill out the officers of record, which can all be one person. I did myself as I had my address handy and of course we can update the President, Treasurer, and Secretary roles and what ever we want to assign to those roles by a simple Board vote when the docs come in.
Let me know if you have other questions, I've been through this about 10 times with incorporating different entities (mostly LLCs and C-Type corporations) over the years, though this is my first non-profit. The process proved exactly the same, with the addition of the Tax Exempt Application.
Talk with you soon.
Best Regards,
David A. Johnston
BitAngels.co
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 3:42 PM, J.R. Willett wrote:
Board: please be advised of David's proposed reimbursement of $1042 (see below) for incorporating the non-profit MasterCoin Foundation. If I don't hear any objections, I plan to pay this expense out of project funds the next time the Exodus Address makes a payment.
David, do you want to get paid right away, or do you want to wait for the next payment to go out? I was going to ask Mich to wait until I paid out to the winners of the coding contest, but $1042 is a lot of money to leave hanging like that
Also, I don't recall you saying - is there something special about incorporating in the state of Delaware? Any idea how long it will be until the paperwork is processed?
Lastly, what does "treasurer" mean in this context? (Once we get m-of-n signing, aren't we all treasurers?)
Thanks!
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Johnston
Date: Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 1:25 PM
J.R.,
I'm glad to get this all formalized and in place.
The paperwork is now filed with Legal Zoom for our Delaware Incorporation of Mastercoin Foundation Inc.
Filing as a Non-Profit cost a little more ($1,042) than normal because they have to do our Tax Exempt Status. But its still not bad normally a lawyer would cost $4,000 to $5,000 for the same service of doing the incorporation, getting the Federal Tax ID and filing for Tax Exempt status.
Attached is the total. Please remit that total in BTC to this Coinbase address for the reimbursement.
1AHXnT1eLRfBv7WZXcHNzomjETBFLrw3yx
Thanks.
David A. Johnston
BitAngels.co
Good questions.
As for the reimbursement funds it would be nice to be reimbursed sooner than later.
As for Delaware it is the go to state for incorporation because of its business friendly laws, its low incorporation fees, its low annual franchise fee, (about $150 USD), and how quickly they turn around paperwork. The vast majority of the U.S. Fortune 500 are incorporated in Delaware (plus 95% of new incorporations are done) for these reasons. And as you can pick any state you want its the best choice hands down.
I paid an extra $85 to get the paperwork completed in 7 to 10 days instead of the normal 35 business days. I also signed us up for a Registered Agent in Delaware (about $150 per year).
I also filed for our Federal Tax ID number. I also filed for our Tax Exempt Status. I also signed us up for a Bank of America account for the Foundation when the incorporation is complete.
As for Treasurer, it only means what ever definition we assign to it. For the forms I had to fill out the officers of record, which can all be one person. I did myself as I had my address handy and of course we can update the President, Treasurer, and Secretary roles and what ever we want to assign to those roles by a simple Board vote when the docs come in.
Let me know if you have other questions, I've been through this about 10 times with incorporating different entities (mostly LLCs and C-Type corporations) over the years, though this is my first non-profit. The process proved exactly the same, with the addition of the Tax Exempt Application.
Talk with you soon.
Best Regards,
David A. Johnston
BitAngels.co
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 3:42 PM, J.R. Willett wrote:
Board: please be advised of David's proposed reimbursement of $1042 (see below) for incorporating the non-profit MasterCoin Foundation. If I don't hear any objections, I plan to pay this expense out of project funds the next time the Exodus Address makes a payment.
David, do you want to get paid right away, or do you want to wait for the next payment to go out? I was going to ask Mich to wait until I paid out to the winners of the coding contest, but $1042 is a lot of money to leave hanging like that
Also, I don't recall you saying - is there something special about incorporating in the state of Delaware? Any idea how long it will be until the paperwork is processed?
Lastly, what does "treasurer" mean in this context? (Once we get m-of-n signing, aren't we all treasurers?)
Thanks!
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Johnston
Date: Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 1:25 PM
J.R.,
I'm glad to get this all formalized and in place.
The paperwork is now filed with Legal Zoom for our Delaware Incorporation of Mastercoin Foundation Inc.
Filing as a Non-Profit cost a little more ($1,042) than normal because they have to do our Tax Exempt Status. But its still not bad normally a lawyer would cost $4,000 to $5,000 for the same service of doing the incorporation, getting the Federal Tax ID and filing for Tax Exempt status.
Attached is the total. Please remit that total in BTC to this Coinbase address for the reimbursement.
1AHXnT1eLRfBv7WZXcHNzomjETBFLrw3yx
Thanks.
David A. Johnston
BitAngels.co
Probably nobody will question this expense, but he did also send me the receipt for this transaction if it somehow becomes contentious.
September 20, 2013, 04:09:08 PM
where is that thread? this is trippy
the alt coin mastercoin is at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-mastercoin-mst-sync-problems-fixed-updated-9-sept-2013-242406
Remember this thread is the new layer protocol mastercoin, and that link is the alt coin mastercoin
September 20, 2013, 02:11:18 PM
~so which one is the offical MST info thread? 
We go by MSC, not MST. This is the official thread, but it is high-volume, and can be hard to keep up with
WTF!!!!====> https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/62
You know thats a different Mastercoin right? Thats the altcoin mastercoin, and this is the bitcoin mastercoin
where is that thread? this is trippy
September 20, 2013, 01:07:18 PM
~so which one is the offical MST info thread?
We go by MSC, not MST. This is the official thread, but it is high-volume, and can be hard to keep up with
WTF!!!!====> https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/62
You know thats a different Mastercoin right? Thats the altcoin mastercoin, and this is the bitcoin mastercoin
September 20, 2013, 12:59:20 PM
~so which one is the offical MST info thread?
We go by MSC, not MST. This is the official thread, but it is high-volume, and can be hard to keep up with
WTF!!!!====> https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/62
September 20, 2013, 11:19:59 AM
~so which one is the offical MST info thread?
We go by MSC, not MST. This is the official thread, but it is high-volume, and can be hard to keep up with
September 20, 2013, 11:12:59 AM
I'm not following this thread all the time, so I missed a few discussions about whether Mastercoin should or shouldn't be an alt chain.
I just want to state that I agree with Willet 100% that it shouldn't be, and actually started another thread just about this topic:
(If you want me to see you response, try posting it on the other thread, I will be monitoring that one more frequently ... just copy-pasting here for the lazy)
I just want to state that I agree with Willet 100% that it shouldn't be, and actually started another thread just about this topic:
(If you want me to see you response, try posting it on the other thread, I will be monitoring that one more frequently ... just copy-pasting here for the lazy)
Thanks Ron. I posted another important reason we're not moving to an alt-chain in that thread. Quoted here for the lazy:
One important reason I'm not moving to an alt-chain is the distributed exchange between bitcoin and MasterCoin, which isn't possible if we are on an alt-chain, since it requires using data from standard bitcoin transactions AND MasterCoin transactions to work.
I don't think I've mentioned that reason anywhere else, but it is probably the primary reason I'm not even willing to consider it. There are other reasons, like total cost of development, and even the dirty stink of starting yet another alt chain (For instance, bitshares is doing it "right", but they were banished to the alt section with all those scam coins, which they of course bitterly resent).
I am totally convinced that building on top of bitcoin is the right way to go, for all the reasons here and above in Ron's posts.
I don't think I've mentioned that reason anywhere else, but it is probably the primary reason I'm not even willing to consider it. There are other reasons, like total cost of development, and even the dirty stink of starting yet another alt chain (For instance, bitshares is doing it "right", but they were banished to the alt section with all those scam coins, which they of course bitterly resent).
I am totally convinced that building on top of bitcoin is the right way to go, for all the reasons here and above in Ron's posts.
~so which one is the offical MST info thread?
September 20, 2013, 10:54:27 AM
I'm not following this thread all the time, so I missed a few discussions about whether Mastercoin should or shouldn't be an alt chain.
I just want to state that I agree with Willet 100% that it shouldn't be, and actually started another thread just about this topic:
(If you want me to see you response, try posting it on the other thread, I will be monitoring that one more frequently ... just copy-pasting here for the lazy)
I just want to state that I agree with Willet 100% that it shouldn't be, and actually started another thread just about this topic:
(If you want me to see you response, try posting it on the other thread, I will be monitoring that one more frequently ... just copy-pasting here for the lazy)
Thanks Ron. I posted another important reason we're not moving to an alt-chain in that thread. Quoted here for the lazy:
One important reason I'm not moving to an alt-chain is the distributed exchange between bitcoin and MasterCoin, which isn't possible if we are on an alt-chain, since it requires using data from standard bitcoin transactions AND MasterCoin transactions to work.
I don't think I've mentioned that reason anywhere else, but it is probably the primary reason I'm not even willing to consider it. There are other reasons, like total cost of development, and even the dirty stink of starting yet another alt chain (For instance, bitshares is doing it "right", but they were banished to the alt section with all those scam coins, which they of course bitterly resent).
I am totally convinced that building on top of bitcoin is the right way to go, for all the reasons here and above in Ron's posts.
I don't think I've mentioned that reason anywhere else, but it is probably the primary reason I'm not even willing to consider it. There are other reasons, like total cost of development, and even the dirty stink of starting yet another alt chain (For instance, bitshares is doing it "right", but they were banished to the alt section with all those scam coins, which they of course bitterly resent).
I am totally convinced that building on top of bitcoin is the right way to go, for all the reasons here and above in Ron's posts.
September 20, 2013, 01:23:29 AM
I'm not following this thread all the time, so I missed a few discussions about whether Mastercoin should or shouldn't be an alt chain.
I just want to state that I agree with Willet 100% that it shouldn't be, and actually started another thread just about this topic:
(If you want me to see you response, try posting it on the other thread, I will be monitoring that one more frequently ... just copy-pasting here for the lazy)
I just want to state that I agree with Willet 100% that it shouldn't be, and actually started another thread just about this topic:
(If you want me to see you response, try posting it on the other thread, I will be monitoring that one more frequently ... just copy-pasting here for the lazy)
There have been several well known bitcoiners that tried to convince J.R.Willet to move Mastercoin to an altchain, instead of using the bitcoin blockchain. Willet's opinion is that Mastercoin should stay on the blockchain, and I fully concur. Here is my reasoning:
It is easier to implement Mastercoin on the blockchain. The entire concept of mining "vanishes", or actually is satisfied by Bitcoin miners. This means the security of Mastercoin is on par with Bitcoin (up to potential bugs) ... there is no way to 51% attack it.
The same could be implemented using merged mining, but no matter how you look at it, merged mining is technically a more complicated solution, because it requires an entirely new blockchain one needs to reason about. You need to think about the hashrate of this separate blockchain and to encourage miners to merge-mine it, things that are just not needed when you directly encode things into the Bitcoin blockchain. As far as software development goes, I'm super lazy - I do not like to do something complicated if I can do something simple that serves the same purpose.
Now, it is true that this "burdens" the blockchain ... in the same way that Satoshi Dice does.
However, this burdening is something that Bitcoin users and developers will just have to live with. Nobody is the boss of Bitcoin, and any standard Bitcoin transaction (like Mastercoin transactions are) are legitimate transactions that Bitcoin simply has to learn to deal with. There is just no feasible way that I see that Bitcoin developers could ban such transactions (please enlighten me if I'm wrong).
Bitcoin is the future of finance, resistant to hacking, government censorship and regulation. Do you really want to base that future on asking other people to pretty please "not abuse it for you own purposes"? This is not the answer. Bitcoin has to be made scalable enough to meet its role as the one major, global, world currency.
Mastercoin developers have no intention of disrupting Bitcoin, and will gladly adapt to any friendly encoding that the brilliant minds of these forums will propose, as long as it doesn't harm Mastercoin (using non-standard transactions that are relayed more slowly is not an option at the moment). The Bitcoin blockchain must and will remain neutral, and if Willet hadn't come up with Mastercoin encoding, someone else would have created something similar sooner or later.
It is easier to implement Mastercoin on the blockchain. The entire concept of mining "vanishes", or actually is satisfied by Bitcoin miners. This means the security of Mastercoin is on par with Bitcoin (up to potential bugs) ... there is no way to 51% attack it.
The same could be implemented using merged mining, but no matter how you look at it, merged mining is technically a more complicated solution, because it requires an entirely new blockchain one needs to reason about. You need to think about the hashrate of this separate blockchain and to encourage miners to merge-mine it, things that are just not needed when you directly encode things into the Bitcoin blockchain. As far as software development goes, I'm super lazy - I do not like to do something complicated if I can do something simple that serves the same purpose.
Now, it is true that this "burdens" the blockchain ... in the same way that Satoshi Dice does.
However, this burdening is something that Bitcoin users and developers will just have to live with. Nobody is the boss of Bitcoin, and any standard Bitcoin transaction (like Mastercoin transactions are) are legitimate transactions that Bitcoin simply has to learn to deal with. There is just no feasible way that I see that Bitcoin developers could ban such transactions (please enlighten me if I'm wrong).
Bitcoin is the future of finance, resistant to hacking, government censorship and regulation. Do you really want to base that future on asking other people to pretty please "not abuse it for you own purposes"? This is not the answer. Bitcoin has to be made scalable enough to meet its role as the one major, global, world currency.
Mastercoin developers have no intention of disrupting Bitcoin, and will gladly adapt to any friendly encoding that the brilliant minds of these forums will propose, as long as it doesn't harm Mastercoin (using non-standard transactions that are relayed more slowly is not an option at the moment). The Bitcoin blockchain must and will remain neutral, and if Willet hadn't come up with Mastercoin encoding, someone else would have created something similar sooner or later.
September 19, 2013, 07:46:31 PM
September 19, 2013, 04:25:51 PM
1) The total number of Mastercoins is 619478.593384398.
Again accuracy minor issue:
We have 8 digits after the decimal point, so the number is 619478.59338440
This transaction has 4 outputs of 0.0006 - how did you consider destination vs change address?
https://blockchain.info/tx/2d69ad4c5ec9380b2da89c06ef9fd263755d70f9fe7fe0774fe8c8a2494938ee
EDIT: Answered my own question I think, loop through ambiguous address sequence numbers checking for first data packet sequence number-1.
I think somebody created that on purpose just for testing
I'm a little worried about corner cases here. Let's see if I can define some rules for processing:
- All protocol transactions should have the same output amount. If one output is different, that is the change address.
- If all outputs are the same, then look at sequence numbers:
- If there is a broken sequence (i.e. 3,4,8), then the odd-man-out is the change address (8 in this example)
- If there is an ambiguous sequence (i.e. 3,4,4), then the transaction is invalid!
- If there is a perfect sequence (i.e. 3,4,5), then the transaction is invalid!
- The first version of this post had some additional rules for perfect sequences, due to the possibility of two data addresses, but then I realized that there will NEVER be two data addresses, because data addresses are only used by standard bitcoin clients for simple sends, which only have one data address. Advanced features will only run on MasterCoin clients, which can avoid ambiguity explicitly by making sure that either there is no change or that the change address has a different output than the other addresses.
I'll put those rules into the next rev of the spec.
If somebody wants to try their hand at getting some test cases like the above into the block chain, we can make sure that all clients handle them the same.
Quite a test, if I'm decoding correctly 250 Mastercoins were sent in that transaction!
Thanks for detailing some fringe cases, as you say I think it's a good idea to get it into the spec. I was thinking that it's possible for the change address to have the same seq number as the reference or data address but it looks like you've cleared that up above as an invalid transaction
September 19, 2013, 03:57:04 PM
Yup! (I updated the FAQ)
September 19, 2013, 02:22:52 PM
Does this calculation include the amount of reward mastercoins?
I added an entry to the FAQ.
I added an entry to the FAQ.
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