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Topic: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address” - page 77. (Read 448462 times)

legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1003
Ron Gross
Here's another feature which may be in the 1.2 version of the spec if people like it: Proof of Stake voting

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3524354

A comment about protocol version:

I would like us all, Willett include, to do changes changes in pieces, and not in bulk.
I believe Willett is currently working on a big pull request for "1.2". This is not the best way to develop software (or specs for this matter).

Instead of one big pull requets that is either accepted or not, let's separate each change to its own pull requests and/or github branch. This will help us all move faster.

We could still have a process of versioning the spec (we don't have to!). If we choose to version it, the the process of deciding on a version would be just that we (= Willett) designate a specific point on the master branch as "1.2", and tag it appropriately.

We need to include some way to propose votes, and to allow the proposer to set a time period.
I propose we add a new message to the protocol: Request Vote.
This message will currently be free of charge (except underlying btc costs). In the future we might want to add a certain price at vote requests, because otherwise anyone will be able to spam vote requests ... we can decide on what a good price for this vote later. We can have the vote request cost go to 1Exodus. Note that I'm not talking about a cost required in order to vote, but a cost required to publish a vote request. Alternative mechanisms to prevent spam are also possible.

Whoever initiated the vote request needs to set a few parameters:

1. Time frame until the voting closes.
2. Percent of stake required for a decision. This should be at least > 50% of all potential votes. The percentage is never out of the people who actually voted - I think we should, at least for now, treat abstaining from voting just like voting "No". Regardless, we might want to have some votes have a higher degree of consensus than 50% like 60 or 70% of all mastercoin holders. Whoever creates the vote request should be able to decide this.

Proof of stake voting is a wonderful feature.
This can provide a secure fully decentralized source of data streams for asset prices.
The price would be an emergent property of a long series of binary votes adjusting it up and down by a small amount.
There are strong incentives for honest reporting because:
a) The mastercoin owners have a strong incentive to maintain accurate data streams. Such accurate datastreams could allow mastercoinUSD (though the plan needs tweaking) and successful implementation of mastercoinUSD would lead the coin to take on tremendous value.
b) individual capacity to influence outcomes is too limited to profit meaningfully from manipulation

Yeah, I've been toying with ideas like that. I think it's too early but that's definitely a valid direction to explore!
I suggest starting a dedicated thread to discuss that.

Adam from LetsTalkBitcoin has approached us about our sponsoring his show. I really like that idea because Adam's show was instrumental in getting the word out in the last days of our fundraiser (and he owns some MSC, which helps too).

I believe he said it would cost 1.5 BTC to produce a 30-second spot for us, which we can then pay to have on his show. I'd like to suggest that we pay Adam do that, and once we all hear the result, we can decide if it is something the community is enthusiastic about. If so, we can sponsor a few episodes so that the spot is included. I believe his show reaches about 5500 rabid bitcoiners twice a week (so about 11000 impressions per week)

I'd be interested to hear opinions on this. What do you guys think the spot should say? I'd also be interested in hearing what Adam thinks the spot should say.

I prefer organic traffic first. I have emailed Adam and asked him to interview us - a lot better than a 30-second spot!
If that can't be scheduled for whatever reason, we could do the 30-second spot ... but that's just such a pale comparison, I want to fully explore the option getting an entire interview (free or paid) first.

full member
Activity: 179
Merit: 100
Spotted mastercoin logo in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9UHbFb6vOY

Looks like he has a mastercoin video up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKeAtijscaw
full member
Activity: 201
Merit: 100
Well..Adam knows him Wink. That's the book and it looks to be the defacto bitcoin book based on the outline.  Also cool that Creative Commons will apply so easy for anyone to access.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1031
Rational Exuberance
Love the idea of a spot on LTB - excellent podcast.  A quick summary of the concept, direction for more info, and a call for more developers (not to discount the ones we are fortunate to have already).

Been curious to hear Andreas' thoughts on the project..wishful thinking but if enough progress is made it might warrant mention in his upcoming bitcoin book.

You must mean this book, yes?: http://bitcoinbook.info/

That would be cool. I note it has a section for "bitcoin in the future" Smiley

Anybody know him?
full member
Activity: 201
Merit: 100
Love the idea of a spot on LTB - excellent podcast.  A quick summary of the concept, direction for more info, and a call for more developers (not to discount the ones we are fortunate to have already).

Been curious to hear Andreas' thoughts on the project..wishful thinking but if enough progress is made it might warrant mention in his upcoming bitcoin book.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1031
Rational Exuberance
Adam from LetsTalkBitcoin has approached us about our sponsoring his show. I really like that idea because Adam's show was instrumental in getting the word out in the last days of our fundraiser (and he owns some MSC, which helps too).

I believe he said it would cost 1.5 BTC to produce a 30-second spot for us, which we can then pay to have on his show. I'd like to suggest that we pay Adam do that, and once we all hear the result, we can decide if it is something the community is enthusiastic about. If so, we can sponsor a few episodes so that the spot is included. I believe his show reaches about 5500 rabid bitcoiners twice a week (so about 11000 impressions per week)

I'd be interested to hear opinions on this. What do you guys think the spot should say? I'd also be interested in hearing what Adam thinks the spot should say.

Note that I am not promising money to anybody yet (all expenses have to be approved by the board). Just making a suggestion to see what you guys think.

Thanks!
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
Could you link me all the transactions involved so I can check it out?

i am same question  Huh
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1031
Rational Exuberance
We need to produce a better video for the homepage of mastercoin.org.

I opened a Trello ticket.
What do you think should be the bounty for this feature?
Please feel free to comment on top of the Trello item.

I'd open another thread to discuss this, but we already too many thread ... we're discussing whether to open a subforum in bitcointalk or a separate forum.

Yeah, I think the time has come. I suggest we get a couple quotes from Mich and maybe one other person. Maybe we could start with a tiny bounty for the best proposed transcript for the voice-over Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1003
Ron Gross
We need to produce a better video for the homepage of mastercoin.org.

I opened a Trello ticket.
What do you think should be the bounty for this feature?
Please feel free to comment on top of the Trello item.

I'd open another thread to discuss this, but we already too many thread ... we're discussing whether to open a subforum in bitcointalk or a separate forum.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1031
Rational Exuberance
Proof of stake voting is a wonderful feature.
This can provide a secure fully decentralized source of data streams for asset prices.
The price would be an emergent property of a long series of binary votes adjusting it up and down by a small amount.
There are strong incentives for honest reporting because:
a) The mastercoin owners have a strong incentive to maintain accurate data streams. Such accurate datastreams could allow mastercoinUSD (though the plan needs tweaking) and successful implementation of mastercoinUSD would lead the coin to take on tremendous value.
b) individual capacity to influence outcomes is too limited to profit meaningfully from manipulation

Wow, that's a really cool idea. I never thought of that!

I have no idea if it would work (the game theory involved makes my head hurt), but we should definitely try something like this at some point and see what happens.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1003
Here's another feature which may be in the 1.2 version of the spec if people like it: Proof of Stake voting

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3524354

Quoted here for convenience:

Ron asked me to spec out what this might look like. If this is acceptable, it could go into the 1.2 version of the spec:

  • Mastercoin websites will have a "voting" section for each currency and smart property.
    • Owning a currency or property allows you to vote on issues related to how that currency or property should be run.
  • The voting section will list issues which are available to vote on, as well as feature requests, in descending order of popularity, and the current vote tally for each
  • Mastercoin messages needed for voting are:
    • Create new issue (title and what the options are, such as YES/NO or A/B/C/D)
    • Vote on issue (address X votes NO on currency Y issue Z)
      • Weight of vote is proportional to the amount of currency or property owned by that address (proof of stake)
    • Create a new feature request (title and description)
    • Vote on feature (address X supports feature Z on currency Y) - also weighted by ownership
      • A single address may only support one feature, and may only vote in one direction, however . . .
      • A user may split their vote by using multiple addresses
  • When some or all property is transferred out of an address which has voted, the votes of the transferred property are invalidated (this allows the owner of the new address to vote again)
  • Votes are advisory votes only, and are enforced by social contract, rather than by the protocol itself

As an example, the Mastercoin foundation will be issuing memberships at some point as a smart property. Owners of those memberships can vote on issues related to the governance of the Mastercoin foundation. Similarly, Mastercoins themselves will have a voting section.


Proof of stake voting is a wonderful feature.
This can provide a secure fully decentralized source of data streams for asset prices.
The price would be an emergent property of a long series of binary votes adjusting it up and down by a small amount.
There are strong incentives for honest reporting because:
a) The mastercoin owners have a strong incentive to maintain accurate data streams. Such accurate datastreams could allow mastercoinUSD (though the plan needs tweaking) and successful implementation of mastercoinUSD would lead the coin to take on tremendous value.
b) individual capacity to influence outcomes is too limited to profit meaningfully from manipulation
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1031
Rational Exuberance
Here's another feature which may be in the 1.2 version of the spec if people like it: Proof of Stake voting

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3524354

Quoted here for convenience:

Ron asked me to spec out what this might look like. If this is acceptable, it could go into the 1.2 version of the spec:

  • Mastercoin websites will have a "voting" section for each currency and smart property.
    • Owning a currency or property allows you to vote on issues related to how that currency or property should be run.
  • The voting section will list issues which are available to vote on, as well as feature requests, in descending order of popularity, and the current vote tally for each
  • Mastercoin messages needed for voting are:
    • Create new issue (title and what the options are, such as YES/NO or A/B/C/D)
    • Vote on issue (address X votes NO on currency Y issue Z)
      • Weight of vote is proportional to the amount of currency or property owned by that address (proof of stake)
    • Create a new feature request (title and description)
    • Vote on feature (address X supports feature Z on currency Y) - also weighted by ownership
      • A single address may only support one feature, and may only vote in one direction, however . . .
      • A user may split their vote by using multiple addresses
  • When some or all property is transferred out of an address which has voted, the votes of the transferred property are invalidated (this allows the owner of the new address to vote again)
  • Votes are advisory votes only, and are enforced by social contract, rather than by the protocol itself

As an example, the Mastercoin foundation will be issuing memberships at some point as a smart property. Owners of those memberships can vote on issues related to the governance of the Mastercoin foundation. Similarly, Mastercoins themselves will have a voting section.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1006
100 satoshis -> ISO code
MastercoinExplanation = BitcoinExplanation2

Isn't the priority providing a working prototype capable of institutional application, not educating the public about it?

(mastercoin.org does a heroic job already considering the short time frame).
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
David recently posted "Clearing up 10 Misconceptions about the Mastercoin Protocol" on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1q71m1/clearing_up_10_misconceptions_about_the/

As usual, there is a flood of haters swamping the post with negative comments and downvotes.

Anybody who can help raise the level of intelligence there would be appreciated Smiley

I have to agree with one of the commentors that the video on mastercoin.org is not very informative. I do appreciate moltenmich's work but the video is no help for someone who does not know what Mastercoin is. Mastercoin really needs a proper explainer video. I hope there will be a budget for this someday.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1031
Rational Exuberance
David recently posted "Clearing up 10 Misconceptions about the Mastercoin Protocol" on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1q71m1/clearing_up_10_misconceptions_about_the/

As usual, there is a flood of haters swamping the post with negative comments and downvotes.

Anybody who can help raise the level of intelligence there would be appreciated Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
I've just added initial chart support to Mastercoin-explorer. For now you can see the total amount of Simple Send transactions. Next up will be some Selling Offer data.



Looks great! FYI, the top50 page is currently broken (http://mastercoin-explorer.com/addresses).
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1003
Ron Gross
To clarify, I was requesting the nicks of (active) board members on Bitcointalk, not Trello, to be listed. I imagine you Ripper would know them by heart and could easily list them here?

Not really, but I'll ask for their nicks. Most of them aren't that active on bitcointalk.

This is what I have:

David Johnston https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/djohnston-76620
Ron Gross https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/ripper234-7087
J.R. Willett https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/dacoinminster-3313
Antony Vo https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/vokain-49247
hero member
Activity: 874
Merit: 1000
You guys might be interested in this post I made on another thread about the criticisms that the intial distribution of Mastercoins was unfair:
I what regard do they consider it unfair?  Everyone who participated did their homework early, studied the problem and solution, decided to commit, paid their funds, received MSC. 

Anyone who alleges 'unfair' should explain why they believe this.  They had equal chance of putting up their bitcoin to join the effort - no?  They were late - so now that is unfair?  Even JR paid for his shares.  Many start-ups originate with shit-tons of 'founder shares'.  Not here.  JR paid the same as I did.

What the hell was 'unfair' about the distribution?  It not like tons of MSC was given away to underserving parties. 

From the day after closing - you could buy as many MSC as you like.  It's called an 'open market'.  Fair market value prices are set by those willing to part with their shares.

Nothing is more fair than the MSC distribution. 

hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
I've just added initial chart support to Mastercoin-explorer. For now you can see the total amount of Simple Send transactions. Next up will be some Selling Offer data.

legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1003
Ron Gross
We want to accelerate development of the Voting mechanism for approving changes in the protocol.

I added a Trello Card about it, and currently assigned it to Willett.
If someone is up for it and can formulate the rough ideas in the thread into a coherent spec pull request - that would be terrific.

We would then follow that up with a bounty to implement that.
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