Well, whatever, the dude asking for BTC to dig a treasure out was of the same sort but at least way more nice.
Topic: [Matured] Medium Loan Request-10-15% Interest, 30-45 days, Collateral and Escrow - page 4. (Read 6257 times)
November 07, 2014, 03:11:38 AM
I must add: false advertisement and claims plus this kind of attitude everyone can see in the above post. Now my country of origin in getting into the discussion?
Well, whatever, the dude asking for BTC to dig a treasure out was of the same sort but at least way more nice.
Well, whatever, the dude asking for BTC to dig a treasure out was of the same sort but at least way more nice.
November 07, 2014, 03:03:40 AM
Well he's risking his reputation if he wishes to keep all the coins and default on the loans.
I can confirm that Honeypot is offering collateral but I won't reveal what it is, as that's what the OP wants.
I can confirm that Honeypot is offering collateral but I won't reveal what it is, as that's what the OP wants.
This is indeed true and a huge red flag, however I'm not commenting on users choices... it is your money and you do what you want with it.
The purpose of my posts here, aside from taking a good laugh at someone who is climbing mirrors trying to defend what cannot be defended, is to make sure everyone understand that what he is offering is not collateral by definition.
It is some kind of 'deposit to escrow' which may or may not lose value. If its value rises he is safe since escrow holds the coin and he can redeem them by paying.
The breach happens in case the value lowers.... he is no longer financially compelled to uphold his part of the bargain since he will trade a good asset (plus interest) for a losing one. You'll have to believe his word for this.... which makes to whole concept of collateral null and void.
The fact that he did not mention partial redeeming is just inexperience, it is a common condition of loans when another currency is used as true collateral not this kind of weird hybridation.
That being said if these conditions are enough for someone to gamble, go ahead! I'm not suggesting that he will not pay... he is just making false advertisement and claims.
Now we have one ignorant italian boy bitching and moaning through PM and this thread, trying to defend himself after making some very ignorant comments.
If you knew how to invest, trade and spot legitimacy, maybe you wouldn't have been scammed so many times, and now try to bitch and nitpick at every loan thread when deals don't go your way
You think you can keep mouthing off about 'real collateral' and 'real security' when I have clearly outlined why this is financially and contractually very disadvantageous for one party in the cryptocurrency environment. I have also outlined that aside from these conditions, I negotiate to reach the fairest terms possible for both sides.
You refused escrow the first time around and tried to get a deal where you would be in direct control of the collateral - this is not a red flag, it's a confession of scam or at the very least extremely ignorant attitude that doesn't even deserve a serious consideration. Having a mutually agreed 3rd party escrow is essential for obvious reasons.
You then asked for liquidation option when I have clearly stated beforehand why that is not feasible, and then proceeded to squeal 'scam' - even though it was you who didn't even bother to read the terms.
You then proceeded to 'argue' about what you think is a 'right' definition of a 'secure' collateral and bitch about 'false advertisement' when in fact, you just happened to get mouthy and couldn't finish what you started without getting put in your place
If you knew the value of rep and had actual contacts and activities within crypto currency instead of spending most of your time whining and losing on deals, you would understand just how important it is
Offer ongoing, several requests at hand and options available. PM for details and confirm on the thread.
November 07, 2014, 02:48:27 AM
Well he's risking his reputation if he wishes to keep all the coins and default on the loans.
I can confirm that Honeypot is offering collateral but I won't reveal what it is, as that's what the OP wants.
I can confirm that Honeypot is offering collateral but I won't reveal what it is, as that's what the OP wants.
This is indeed true and a huge red flag, however I'm not commenting on users choices... it is your money and you do what you want with it.
The purpose of my posts here is to make sure everyone understand that what he is offering is not collateral by definition.
It is some kind of 'deposit to escrow' which may or may not lose value. If its value rises he is safe since escrow holds the coins and he can redeem them by paying.
The breach happens in case the value lowers.... he is no longer financially compelled to uphold his part of the bargain since he will trade a good asset (plus interest) for a losing one. You'll have to believe his word for this.... which makes to whole concept of collateral null and void.
The fact that he did not mention partial redeeming is just inexperience, it is a common condition of loans when another currency is used as true collateral not this kind of weird hybridation that OBVIOUSLY favors him despite his weird attempts at denying this.
That being said if these conditions are enough for someone to gamble, go ahead! I'm not suggesting that he will not pay... he is just making false advertisement and claims.
November 06, 2014, 03:48:48 PM
Also, liquidating the collateral option is one I rejected and continue to reject, simply because the sheer volatility of crypto currency makes this a very disadvantageous move.
I am at fault for not reading this completely.
User here is NOT offering collateral despite scamming attempts to entice users in thinking so. The very definition of collateral counteracts his assumptions.
He whises to use lenders like a parachute: if everything goes OK and his collateral gains value he will pay, otherwise good luck with him giving back principal + interest and getting back useless coins
All this weighting on borrowed money.
All offers withdrawn, stay away like the plague!!
Well he's risking his reputation if he wishes to keep all the coins and default on the loans.
I can confirm that Honeypot is offering collateral but I won't reveal what it is, as that's what the OP wants.
Thank you for confirming, Valzador. I try to reach the fairest deal possible on equitable terms.
Offer on going, 4.5 btc portion remaining with collateral and conditions as outlined in the OP.
November 06, 2014, 03:39:20 PM
Also, liquidating the collateral option is one I rejected and continue to reject, simply because the sheer volatility of crypto currency makes this a very disadvantageous move.
I am at fault for not reading this completely.
User here is NOT offering collateral despite scamming attempts to entice users in thinking so. The very definition of collateral counteracts his assumptions.
He whises to use lenders like a parachute: if everything goes OK and his collateral gains value he will pay, otherwise good luck with him giving back principal + interest and getting back useless coins
All this weighting on borrowed money.
All offers withdrawn, stay away like the plague!!
Well he's risking his reputation if he wishes to keep all the coins and default on the loans.
I can confirm that Honeypot is offering collateral but I won't reveal what it is, as that's what the OP wants.
November 06, 2014, 02:21:21 PM
Austin's 3.08 btc portion confirmed and offer is set, collateral adjusted as per agreement, maturity date on the Dec 14th, 0730 GMT.
Maidak thank you for escrow service once again.
Please confirm here for public record.
Remaining portions are 4.5 btc with appropriate collateral, up for negotiations. All interested parties, PM me and post here.
Confirmed. Maidak thank you for escrow service once again.
Please confirm here for public record.
Remaining portions are 4.5 btc with appropriate collateral, up for negotiations. All interested parties, PM me and post here.
November 06, 2014, 01:42:01 PM
Apparently you missed the part where the value could rocket and I would not be able to profit because, well it's in a collateral.
I did not, you may want to read more carefully my reply dated November 4.
Before borrowing money you should spend some time into reading proper money management techniques:
- forbid collateral liquidation ---> no longer collateral
- include a partial refund in case of value rise --> professional approach.
You also missed the part where the collateral is given to the lender if the payment is not made as per agreement.
That is the purpose of collateral, not something you can add as an extra.
Yes you needed that spelled out for you, so there it is
Apparently you are too busy thinking of your profits to understand that forbidding liquidation for anything other then late payment past maturity date is an option, not a requirement for a collateral.
Don't like the basic arrangements? This is a negotiations, and your preferences do not define what secure loan and collateral is.
I do not recall anyone saying those are 'extra', only you are being too much of a little bitch to figure out the obvious statement.
I did not need you to offer any 'partial refunds' to my advantage - you tried to not even use escrow, then asked for large amounts of collateral that can be liquidated to your advantage, and now you think you want to redefine what a 'collateral' is based on your personal preferences while mouthing off about 'professionalism'.
Negotiations and trade apparently means little to you, and your 'offers' are rejected completely.
November 06, 2014, 06:59:51 AM
Apparently you missed the part where the value could rocket and I would not be able to profit because, well it's in a collateral.
I did not, you may want to read more carefully my reply dated November 4.
Before borrowing money you should spend some time into reading proper money management techniques:
- forbid collateral liquidation ---> no longer collateral
- include a partial refund in case of value rise --> professional approach.
You also missed the part where the collateral is given to the lender if the payment is not made as per agreement.
That is the purpose of collateral, not something you can add as an extra.
November 06, 2014, 06:51:39 AM
What are you even talking about? Collateral is always provided, and has been provided to austin already via maidak holding them as he publicly confirmed.
It is a deposit as he cannot liquidate it in the event the value pummels. He has to TRUST you will honor the deal in such a situation. Very unlikely considering your reactions.
Next time you want to be taken seriously, understand the difference between 'insure' and 'hand over the money without escrow and trust someone not to steal your collateral'.
That's childlish. Proper way of dealing business is escrow and liquidable collateral. Your refusal do to this is a huge red flag as it was already pointed out by another savvy user.
Serious investors would not be able to comprehend exactly what you are complaining about when you yourself admitted never reading enough to see what I publicly posted and explained.
I did and made my reply showing the inherent dangers of such an agreement with you, along with the scammy title which includes the word "collateral".
As I have already told you by PM: childlish behaviour isn't going to win you any friends. This is an investment opportunity and not a secured loan so... wrong section
Let's hear what other users say about this matter
Apparently you missed the part where the value could rocket and I would not be able to profit because, well it's in a collateral.
You also missed the part where the collateral is given to the lender if the payment is not made as per agreement.
Are you blind, or just that short?
Childish and inexperienced seems to be their agreement on your behavior, based on past dealings with you
Offer on going, 4.5 btc with collateral provided via 3rd party escrow.
November 06, 2014, 06:47:10 AM
What are you even talking about? Collateral is always provided, and has been provided to austin already via maidak holding them as he publicly confirmed.
It is a deposit as he cannot liquidate it in the event the value pummels. He has to TRUST you will honor the deal in such a situation. Very unlikely considering your reactions.
Next time you want to be taken seriously, understand the difference between 'insure' and 'hand over the money without escrow and trust someone not to steal your collateral'.
That's childlish. Proper way of dealing business is escrow and liquidable collateral. Your refusal do to this is a huge red flag as it was already pointed out by another savvy user.
Serious investors would not be able to comprehend exactly what you are complaining about when you yourself admitted never reading enough to see what I publicly posted and explained.
I did and made my reply showing the inherent dangers of such an agreement with you, along with the scammy title which includes the word "collateral".
As I have already told you by PM: childlish behaviour isn't going to win you any friends. This is an investment opportunity and not a secured loan so... wrong section
Let's hear what other users say about this matter
November 06, 2014, 06:32:21 AM
Not agreeing to the terms that are in your favor does not make the deal a 'scam'.
Title states collateral will be provided when it is not ---> scammy behaviour. Offered deal is extremely dangerous.
The collateral value overtime is not a consideration in whether I pay or not - I must pay, because you are supposed to pay back your loans no matter what. Am I missing something here?
Yes. The purpose of collateral is to insure the lender against the borrower. For more benefit please read here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateral_(finance)
To call this standard arrangement a 'scam' because it did not settle in your favor - what a joke. You apparently think loans are supposed to be 100% in your favor and know nothing about how deals like these work. It's a trade off, and 3rd party escrow acting as the insurance against fraud - an option that I favor.
Beginners tend to mix LOAN with INVESTMENT. Is this a loan request or an investment opportunity? Secured loans are supposed to be 100% in the favor of the lender unlike an investment which exposes both parties to risk.
Please check it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan --- under SECURED section.
You try to cater serious investors, please act accordingly.
What are you even talking about? Collateral is always provided, and has been provided to austin already via maidak holding them as he publicly confirmed.
Next time you want to be taken seriously, understand the difference between 'insure' and 'hand over the money without escrow and trust someone not to steal your collateral'.
Secured loans do not favor the lender 100% - there is no such arrangement in financial deals, only a difference in balance of advantage and disadvantage, especially in the crypto scene. I offer the best and fairest arrangements I can and will support all trusted 3rd party escrow to hold the collateral for my client exactly for any contingencies in loan payment.
You obviously have been burned one too many times with your amateurish attempts at investments and loans, and now want to blame anyone for your grossly ignorant understanding of how financial deals work.
Your history and mine contrast very differently. No one will miss the difference, and especially your lack of proper attitude in engaging other members based on your supposed expertise borrowed from wikipedia about lending practices for different environments.
Serious investors would not be able to comprehend exactly what you are complaining about when you yourself admitted never reading enough to see what I publicly posted and explained.
I could loan a portion of the request to you, but I do not accept escrow and collateral must cover at least 110% of the loan, 120% is better for your safety.
Of course if the altcoin provided rises significantly in value I'm willing to send it back a portion up to the original value coverage... it is not my desire to hamper your trading efforts by devoiding you of liquidity.
PM me if interested.
Of course if the altcoin provided rises significantly in value I'm willing to send it back a portion up to the original value coverage... it is not my desire to hamper your trading efforts by devoiding you of liquidity.
PM me if interested.
Notice the fact that he asked for no escrow and simply handing over the collateral directly, when I specifically stated 3rd party escrow being essential.
Why would anyone refuse a 3rd party escrow we can both agree on?
Especially when many of his negative feedbacks against others emphasize importance of escrow?
Full of holes and full of lies. Most people didn't even bother with this type of behavior, but it's time you are called out on your mouth.
Offer ongoing, 4.5 btc left to fill with appropriate collateral held by escrow.
November 06, 2014, 06:19:53 AM
Not agreeing to the terms that are in your favor does not make the deal a 'scam'.
Title states collateral will be provided when it is not ---> scammy behaviour. Offered deal is extremely dangerous.
The collateral value overtime is not a consideration in whether I pay or not - I must pay, because you are supposed to pay back your loans no matter what. Am I missing something here?
Yes. The purpose of collateral is to insure the lender against the borrower. For more benefit please read here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateral_(finance)
To call this standard arrangement a 'scam' because it did not settle in your favor - what a joke. You apparently think loans are supposed to be 100% in your favor and know nothing about how deals like these work. It's a trade off, and 3rd party escrow acting as the insurance against fraud - an option that I favor.
Beginners tend to mix LOAN with INVESTMENT. Is this a loan request or an investment opportunity? Secured loans are supposed to be 100% in the favor of the lender unlike an investment which exposes both parties to risk.
Please check it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan --- under SECURED section.
You try to cater serious investors, please act accordingly.
November 06, 2014, 05:58:32 AM
Also, liquidating the collateral option is one I rejected and continue to reject, simply because the sheer volatility of crypto currency makes this a very disadvantageous move.
I am at fault for not reading this completely.
User here is NOT offering collateral despite scamming attempts to entice users in thinking so. The very definition of collateral counteracts his assumptions.
He is use the lenders like a parachute: if everything goes OK and his collateral gains value he will pay, otherwise good luck with him giving back principal + interest and getting back useless coins
All this weighting on borrowed money.
All offers withdrawn, stay away like the plague!!
You say you failed to read the terms properly when I publicly stated it and my reasons behind it. Then you proceed to say 'scam'.
I am not sure if you are upset about me being unwilling to lend on the basis that you will liquidate the collateral if it falls below current value, and thus posted this lying accusation. Were you trying to scam me by giving you a direct control over the collateral instead of 3rd party escrow, or hoping to liquidate the collateral at a higher price once you got hold of it?
You are simply a liar for doing so - I have explained the reason clearly why I stay away from liquidation of collateral option unless the payment is not made on time. That's what a collateral is for.
One user has already decided to invest 3.08 BTC because we have dealt before.
Not agreeing to the terms that are in your favor does not make the deal a 'scam'.
The collateral value overtime is not a consideration in whether I pay or not - I must pay, because you are supposed to pay back your loans no matter what. Am I missing something here?
Maybe you have been scammed one too many times judging from your sent-feedback history (containing mostly personal complaints and whining) and now decides to spend your time bitching at others for supposed 'scams'. You should better understand your position.
You insisted on holding an option to liquidate the collateral. I rejected it, and informed you that 3rd party escrow will hold the coins and only liquidation that will occur is if the payment of the loan is not made on time.
To call this standard arrangement a 'scam' because it did not settle in your favor - what a joke. You apparently think loans are supposed to be 100% in your favor and know nothing about how deals like these work. It's a trade off, and 3rd party escrow acting as the insurance against fraud - an option that I favor.
To all serious investors, feel free to PM.
November 06, 2014, 05:45:04 AM
Also, liquidating the collateral option is one I rejected and continue to reject, simply because the sheer volatility of crypto currency makes this a very disadvantageous move.
I am at fault for not reading this completely.
User here is NOT offering collateral despite scamming attempts to entice users in thinking so. The very definition of collateral counteracts his assumptions.
He whises to use lenders like a parachute: if everything goes OK and his collateral gains value he will pay, otherwise good luck with him giving back principal + interest and getting back useless coins
All this weighting on borrowed money.
All offers withdrawn, stay away like the plague!!
November 06, 2014, 05:36:13 AM
Offer still ongoing.
4.5 btc left to fill with appropriate collateral.
4.5 btc left to fill with appropriate collateral.
November 06, 2014, 03:00:08 AM
Austin's 3.08 btc portion confirmed and offer is set, collateral adjusted as per agreement, maturity date on the Dec 14th, 0730 GMT.
Maidak thank you for escrow service once again.
Please confirm here for public record.
Remaining portions are 4.5 btc with appropriate collateral, up for negotiations. All interested parties, PM me and post here.
Maidak thank you for escrow service once again.
Please confirm here for public record.
Remaining portions are 4.5 btc with appropriate collateral, up for negotiations. All interested parties, PM me and post here.
My pleasure remaining collateral is still being held by me.
November 06, 2014, 02:33:09 AM
Austin's 3.08 btc portion confirmed and offer is set, collateral adjusted as per agreement, maturity date on the Dec 14th, 0730 GMT.
Maidak thank you for escrow service once again.
Please confirm here for public record.
Remaining portions are 4.5 btc with appropriate collateral, up for negotiations. All interested parties, PM me and post here.
Maidak thank you for escrow service once again.
Please confirm here for public record.
Remaining portions are 4.5 btc with appropriate collateral, up for negotiations. All interested parties, PM me and post here.
November 04, 2014, 09:57:44 PM
If you still need BTC please also send me a PM regarding collateral information.
PM sent.
November 04, 2014, 08:47:16 PM
If you still need BTC please also send me a PM regarding collateral information.
November 04, 2014, 04:33:13 PM
I could loan a portion of the request to you, but I do not accept escrow and collateral must cover at least 110% of the loan, 120% is better for your safety.
Of course if the altcoin provided rises significantly in value I'm willing to send it back a portion up to the original value coverage... it is not my desire to hamper your trading efforts by devoiding you of liquidity.
PM me if interested.
Of course if the altcoin provided rises significantly in value I'm willing to send it back a portion up to the original value coverage... it is not my desire to hamper your trading efforts by devoiding you of liquidity.
PM me if interested.
I appreciate your offer. However I must decline since escrow is essential for this to work on my end. If you change your mind, let me know.
I might consider loaning you a couple btc. Pm me collateral info.
PM sent.
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