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Topic: MemoryDealers.com founder Roger Ver abuses admin access at Blockchain.info - page 9. (Read 28778 times)

full member
Activity: 134
Merit: 100
It is sad to see BlockChain.info - a superb service - dragged, without merit, into such an display of complete and utter incompetence trolling and hate on the part of the owner of Memory Dealers, Roger Ver trolls and haters which did nothing for the community. This https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/please-delete-131574 behavior; publicly displaying the details of a private individual scammer and labeling them a criminal would at best seem morally dubious and at worst defamatory a mistake driven by anger.


FTFY

I'm afraid I have no idea what this: "trolls and haters which did nothing for the community" means in the context of my statement. I get the distinct impression that neither do you.
legendary
Activity: 1099
Merit: 1000
It is sad to see BlockChain.info - a superb service - dragged, without merit, into such an display of complete and utter incompetence trolling and hate on the part of the owner of Memory Dealers, Roger Ver trolls and haters which did nothing for the community. This https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/please-delete-131574 behavior; publicly displaying the details of a private individual scammer and labeling them a criminal would at best seem morally dubious and at worst defamatory a mistake driven by anger.


FTFY
member
Activity: 69
Merit: 10
But this isn't a scam, per se.  This is the rough equivalent of getting extra change back on a purchase.  Actually, that's exactly what it is.  Just because you fuck up does not give you the right to plaster the personal info of the benefit of your fuck up on the internet (especially when your TOS say you won't).  A friendly email asking for the bitcoins back is fine but if that doesn't get you anywhere, drop it.

If someone hacks into your system and actively steals from you, that's a different story but there's a hell of a lot of gray area there.
full member
Activity: 134
Merit: 100
It is sad to see BlockChain.info - a superb service - dragged, without merit, into such an display of complete and utter incompetence on the part of the owner of Memory Dealers, Roger Ver. This https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/please-delete-131574 behavior; publicly displaying the details of a private individual and labeling them a criminal would at best seem morally dubious and at worst defamatory.

Mr Ver probably should probably acquaint himself with laws and statutes governing data protection in the United States and how it applies to businesses such as his. His self styled 'terms & conditions' will likely count for nothing if the individual named chose to take the issue to a court of law.
 
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
If the Bitcoin community wants to be taken seriously, Bitcoin businesses better not make that a policy.  ...and if the community has nothing better to do than publicly circulate lists of supposed scammers then you're just reinforcing the negative image others try to pin on Bitcoin as only being about scams and we deserve every bit of mockery we get from those outside who see Bitcoin as nothing but.

tThe negative image others try to pin on Bitcoin is not that it's only being about scams. The negative image is that Bitcoin is full of scams, and that we either don't ever do anything about it, or run to the police contrary to our free-market beliefs. Regardless of whether asking police for help is hypocritical or not, it is simply not effective on a global scale Bitcoin operates on. So the only solutions we have are 1) whine about it and keep getting scammed, 2) go to the police who ignore us, and keep getting scammed, or 3) live up to the "horrible free-market" ideals we get ridiculed for, and actually take care of the scamming ourselves.

We tried 1 and 2
I agree.  I think companies taking a strong stand against scamming would INCREASE outsider confidence, not decrease it.  We need to do everything we can to get scammers out of Bitcoin business, and if that means making the mess more public than it is, so be it.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
If the Bitcoin community wants to be taken seriously, Bitcoin businesses better not make that a policy.  ...and if the community has nothing better to do than publicly circulate lists of supposed scammers then you're just reinforcing the negative image others try to pin on Bitcoin as only being about scams and we deserve every bit of mockery we get from those outside who see Bitcoin as nothing but.

The negative image others try to pin on Bitcoin is not that it's only being about scams. The negative image is that Bitcoin is full of scams, and that we either don't ever do anything about it, or run to the police contrary to our free-market beliefs. Regardless of whether asking police for help is hypocritical or not, it is simply not effective on a global scale Bitcoin operates on. So the only solutions we have are 1) whine about it and keep getting scammed, 2) go to the police who ignore us, and keep getting scammed, or 3) live up to the "horrible free-market" ideals we get ridiculed for, and actually take care of the scamming ourselves.

We tried 1 and 2
newbie
Activity: 44
Merit: 0
I sincerely hope that one of the lessons learned from this whole experience is that all Bitcoin-based businesses will add the following to their TOS in big bold letters:

"NOTE: if you try to scam us, and we find out, your account will be canceled, all your information, public and private, will be shared with all third parties we do business with, who may stop doing business with you as well, and this information may be shared publicly at our discretion."

If the Bitcoin community wants to be taken seriously, Bitcoin businesses better not make that a policy.  ...and if the community has nothing better to do than publicly circulate lists of supposed scammers then you're just reinforcing the negative image others try to pin on Bitcoin as only being about scams and we deserve every bit of mockery we get from those outside who see Bitcoin as nothing but.

Bitcoin has its benefits and its drawbacks - if you don't see that the benefits are much greater and accept the drawbacks then go back to doing ecommerce with credit cards: you'll be able to correct mistakes in refunds, but you'll also never be able to do business with 95% of the world and will have to increase your prices because of credit card fraud.  You can't have it both ways.

This incident could have sparked a discussion about important issues that face Bitcoin businesses - employee access, delaying/approving payments and refunds, perhaps the need for some sort of more private network for notifying each other of possible threats we face, etc.  I hope it still does, but in the meantime a whole bunch of completely unnecessary FUD was produced surrounding Bitcoin and some of the major Bitcoin businesses.

A relevant story from Mark Cuban:
Quote
One day, Martin comes back from Republic Bank, where we had our account. He had just gone through the drive through and one of the tellers who he would see every day dropping of our deposits asked him to wait a second. She comes back and shows him a check that had the payee of a vendor, WHITED OUT and Renee Hardy, our secretary’s name typed over it. Turns out that in the course of a single week, our secretary had pulled this same trick on 83k of our 85k in the bank. As Martin delived the news, I obviously was pissed. I was pissed at Renee, I was pissed at the bank, I was pissed at myself for letting it happen. I remember going to the bank with copies of the checks, and the manager of the bank basically laughing me out of his office telling me that I “didn’t have a pot to piss in”. That I could sue him, or whatever I wanted, but I was out the money.

I got back to the office, told Martin what happened at the bank, and then I realized what I had to do about all of this. I had to go back to work. That what was done, was done. That worrying about revenge, getting pissed at the bank, all those “I’m going to get even and kick your ass thoughts”were basically just a waste of energy. No one was going to cover my obligations but me. I had to get my ass back to work, and do so quickly. That’s exactly what I did.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Ok, I'll change the title.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1008
1davout
Yes. The title, "Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE" is both dishonest and misleading.
Yep, it sort of implies that the vulnerability of blockchain.info's users to a skilled admin comes as a surprise to anyone Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 4801
. . . Still, I think it's important that Blockchain.info users, and anyone else in the Bitcoin community understands what happened today. For that reason I will not be changing or altering this thread in any way . . .
You really should reconsider this.  It would be ok to leave the thread unlocked if you really want to, and I'd definitely say you shouldn't ask for it's deletion.  However, it is important to recognize that Blockchain.info is safe, and is inappropriate for you to hold them responsible for the actions of the owner of bitcoinstore.com.

I'd suggest you change the title to either:

WARNING - Bitcoinstore.com is NOT TRUSTWORTHY

or

[RESOLVED] - Blockchain.info was not safe

Either one makes sure that your point is still made while reducing confusion for new users.
legendary
Activity: 1896
Merit: 1353
"WARNING - a webwallet is AS SAFE AS ITS ADMINS"
legendary
Activity: 1458
Merit: 1006
@Charlie, I agree with keeping the thread, but the title SHOULD be changed.  I think everyone here agrees that blockchain.info is, once again, safe for usage.  The title would likely scare newbies away from using the service (which is the best Bitcoin wallet a person can point a new user to).  Without a good alternative, they may download QT (NOOOOO!) or try one of the other less user-friendly options, and be turned away from using Bitcoin entirely.  Many of the things discussed in this thread may not be understood by newbies, and certainly, they are not likely to read through 5 pages of discussions to find out that the issue has been resolved.

Yes. The title, "Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE" is both dishonest and misleading.

"Your personal data is not safe with Blockchain.info" was apparently true up until today. Pretty bad in itself.

The thread should be kept, but the false and misleading title should be changed. If not by OP, then by a mod.
sr. member
Activity: 312
Merit: 250
The title should be changed but instead of just saying so, also propose an alternative. Mine:

"Blockchain.info reputation dinged by MemoryDealers.com founder Roger"


Works for me.

Or

"MemoryDealers.com abuses blockchain.info admin access"

+1
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
The title should be changed but instead of just saying so, also propose an alternative. Mine:

"Blockchain.info reputation dinged by MemoryDealers.com founder Roger"


Works for me.

Or

"MemoryDealers.com abuses blockchain.info admin access"
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
The title should be changed but instead of just saying so, also propose an alternative. Mine:

"Blockchain.info reputation dinged by MemoryDealers.com founder Roger"

sr. member
Activity: 312
Merit: 250
Change thread title. I agree
sr. member
Activity: 312
Merit: 250
I like blockchain.info service too and will still use it with precaution.
I don't want this thread be deleted. It's important keep this information on forum, to mistakes like the one from Roger never repeat.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
@Charlie, I agree with keeping the thread, but the title SHOULD be changed.  I think everyone here agrees that blockchain.info is, once again, safe for usage.  The title would likely scare newbies away from using the service (which is the best Bitcoin wallet a person can point a new user to).  Without a good alternative, they may download QT (NOOOOO!) or try one of the other less user-friendly options, and be turned away from using Bitcoin entirely.  Many of the things discussed in this thread may not be understood by newbies, and certainly, they are not likely to read through 5 pages of discussions to find out that the issue has been resolved.

I sincerely hope that one of the lessons learned from this whole experience is that all Bitcoin-based businesses will add the following to their TOS in big bold letters:

"NOTE: if you try to scam us, and we find out, your account will be canceled, all your information, public and private, will be shared with all third parties we do business with, who may stop doing business with you as well, and this information may be shared publicly at our discretion."

Since Bitcoin business is done globally, some guy from China calling the police on someone in Greece is really not practical, and the threat of being even mistakenly labeled a scammer would hopefully knock these "Prove that I scammed you, asshole!" guys down a peg.
Sweet, I like it!!!
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
I sincerely hope that one of the lessons learned from this whole experience is that all Bitcoin-based businesses will add the following to their TOS in big bold letters:

"NOTE: if you try to scam us, and we find out, your account will be canceled, all your information, public and private, will be shared with all third parties we do business with, who may stop doing business with you as well, and this information may be shared publicly at our discretion."

Since Bitcoin business is done globally, some guy from China calling the police on someone in Greece is really not practical, and the threat of being even mistakenly labeled a scammer would hopefully knock these "Prove that I scammed you, asshole!" guys down a peg.

Also, I am concerned about the deceptive title damaging the reputation of blockchain.info, who, if you actually understand how they work, have absolutely no way of getting your coins even if they wanted to, the owner which was not involved in this, and who handled the issue quickly and professionally.
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
TL;DR version:

1) Blockchain.info investor MemoryDealers uses administrative access to get personal information connected to a particular wallet

2) Owner of MemoryDealers comes to the forum and acts like an asshat.

3) Owner of Blockchain.info sets things right.

4) Bitcoins and private keys from Blockchain.info are safe.

This about right?
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