Topic: Merit & new rank requirements - page 62. (Read 167726 times)

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On the other hand, it's funny how people feel so patriotic about spending their merit points.. 50% of Full member outgoing transactions were towards members and full members. Same 40% of all Legendary outgoing transactions were towards Legendary and Hero members.

This would be okay if the flat value of merits being exchanged here was the same, but it's clearly not as the flat value of sMerits of Legendary and Hero members is obviously much higher than that of lower ranks..

There are obviously some differences between ranks in terms of received merit distribution, but nothing too extreme that would indicate that the higher ranks have an easy life getting merit. Forget the outlier cases you see around. The norm is another one, when you take into consideration forum wide data.

<…>Out of all the newbies/jrs/fulls/srs who DID get merit -which I'm going to assume means they're not spamming, if you can agree to that- what's the average merit they received per post, and what's the average of unique members that merited those newbies/jrs/fulls per post.
Just these two for each member rank, then do it for legendaries and heroes too. If the stats are evenly distributed i'll never mention this topic again.<…>

High ranking spammers will never earn back their rank thanks to the Merit system. And although the Merit system can't stop the existing spam problem, it stopped it from getting worse.

You (KingZee) seem to be on a tirade against the Merit system. You've been gone from the forum for a while, so you've probably missed that many others did that before you. It's not going to change the Merit system.
In an ideal situation we wouldn't need the Merit system, or even better: all posts would deserve Merit. But we're far from that, and Merit is the best we've got for now.

So explain to me how does the merit system prevent heroes and legendaries from posting equally low effort posts

6704 permanent bans (including nukes):
     4228 Newbie
     1244 Brand new (nukes I'm assuming)
      460 Member
      328 Jr. Member
      276 Full Member
       99 Sr. Member
       40 Hero Member
       22 Copper Member
        7 Legendary

87222 merits destroyed:
       13 merits per ban on average
      251 single-merit users banned

So, just because more Legendary users get more merit than most Newbies, you can safely assume that no one likes Newbies and they won't merit them by any means? Have you thought that maybe it's because there are a lot more Newbies (created in bulk by spammers), which inflames these numbers?

Meanwhile, others only care about their beloved 1 merit to rank up to Jr. Member and keep spamming their bounty entries, which may be the reason why a lot of them only try until they get merited a few times, and when they can go back to their spam, they do it without thinking twice.

So, just because more Legendary users get more merit than most Newbies, you can safely assume that no one likes Newbies and they won't merit them by no means? Have you thought that maybe it's because there are a lot more Newbies (created in bulk by spammers), that those numbers are inflated?

While others only care about their beloved 1 merit to rank up to Jr. Member and keep spamming their bounty entries, which may be the reason why a lot of them only try until they get merited a few times, and when they can go back to their spam, they do it without thinking twice.

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A quick read for you: MYTHBUSTERS: Only high ranked users are rewarded with merits

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Numbers! I love numbers! You count 22925 users who received at least 1 merit, nice. I count :

- 4% who received more or equal to 50 merit.
- 25% who received more or equal to 10 merit.
- 33% who received more or equal to 5 merit.
- 48% who received more or equal to 3 merit.
(all percentages are inclusive of ranks above them).

So basically, half the accounts that ever got merit, never got merited again. And the top 5% of people who got merited, are AT LEAST 50 times more likely than your average user to get merited.

Quick Edit : Also not to forget that these are 22k users who got merited at all. I wonder if we could get stats of Posts by Seniors Merited / Total Posts by Seniors, Full, Hero, Legendary. That oughtta be a fun sight.

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The fact that they're newbies already fucks them over because no one is going to merit them, and that's it, stuck in a deadlock, not just as newbies, but again and again until they reach Hero level.

Look man, I've been reporting rule-breakers since the time I got involved with this forum. I'm not so experienced as other users or the mods, but after almost 2000 successful reports here is my observation >

In this sea of newbies registered every day you can find probably 2-3 users that have real interest in cryptocurrency, and are here to stay the rest are accounts used for >
20% - bumping thread (quite a business here) they are controlled by a few people.
30% - alt accounts for abusing the bounties
30%- legit people heard that they can make money online
15%- banned people, just ban evading.
3% - people having different issues, looking for help.
2% -  announcing new projects, services etc.
Note > this is just based only on my observation.

Big part of those above get banned.
I'm talking only for the newbies here, how you can see them in a different way as the majority are here only to harm/pollute the forum? I know that there are good people out there with good intentions and sooner or later they gonna pass trough this shitposting border and come out as legit users but it takes time.

... We belittle the shitposters, who just so happen to consist of a lot of lower ranks a lot of the time, but there are shitposters of every rank.

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You seem to be confused about something here. We don't want shitposters making money for spam. People shouldn't be able to get paid for posting rubbish regardless of rank.

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Poor you. You're literally complaining that you have to put effort into your posts now. Have you ever thought that you or your attitude might be part of the problem? People have become so entitled here it's ridiculous. We have no control over what campaigns accept as their minimum thresholds, but I think they should have higher standards and much more so. If every campaign did then we wouldn't have an issue with spam in the first place and we probably wouldn't have needed the merit system either, but campaigns are lazy and were paying for spam constantly and something needed to change.

Oh, there are also lots of campaigns you can join, even as lower rank, but I suspect they don't pay as much as you'd like and the fact that you can't get onto a higher paying campaign straight away and without any fuss is probably what's annoyed you so much.

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The people who come here don't necessarily spend all their days and live through sig campaigns. It's not that hard nor that time-consuming

But WHY do all of you guys belittle Juniors, Members, and Full members this much? Sig campaign managers put (word-count, time, etc..) limits on their campaigns all the time. I'm sure that you could pick any random senior and hero participating in the same campaign and you would see very little difference in post quality, as long as they both adhere to the sig campaign rules.

What I don't understand (or I do understand it.. I just don't like it), is this stance towards lesser ranked members. WHY don't you want them making money too?

I'm an example of many, the lowest accepting campaign takes Senior with min 260 merit, average is a lot higher now. WHY do I need to put in so much extra effort to become eligible? It's purely unfair, because just a few weeks ago, I had the same possibilities open to me like you did. But right now, the gap has gotten so much larger, that it just benefits you guys, the ones who already made it past the red line.

It's a shame I can't view all members to prove my point, but there's probably a shitload of existing hero members that make posts of mediocre quality. The same quality that a junior sig campaign member would do write to barely fit his post inside the post count rules. But because the merit system was uneven from the start, it makes it look a lot worse than what it already is.

So your idea about people coming here to make money is the right one but I strongly agree with hilarious, you don't want to pay people who bash random keys on their keyboard and make more money than a salaryman in their country. The opportunity which Bitcointalk presents has made money people 'lazy' TBH.

Also, +3 merit in 24 hours isn't bad for casual discussions if you ask me. Many people struggle to get merit a week. You will eventually get there if you keep up your post quality. I will also suggest you be open-minded. There are far better ways to make money than posting random junk on the internet.

I mean fuck off, over a 1000 words written the last 24 hours and still barely at +3 merit, which brings me to your next point.

Thank god for the merit system, hundreds of hours are saved to decide what/who to trust.

What trades are these? I don't see any trades going on in Bitcoin Discussion or Economics but a whole lot of noise being chatted about things people don't really understand but are doing so just for payment. Go into any thread and read some of the replies in those two subs. It's embarrassing, just like it would be embarrassing if I tried to talk about Lamborghinis in mandarin. Regardless of how much trading is going on it is obviously dwarfed by signature spam and this is the issue because it ruins discussion for everybody.


What's as clear as day? I don't understand what point you're trying to make here.


I don't get what relevancy my signature has to do with anything here, and certainly isn't relevant to my argument about people making dreadful posts, but let's not be hypocrite here. You might not be on a campaign yet but you've literally just reappeared after quite an absence to apply for the very same campaign:


To even have a chance of getting onto that campaign you're going to have to make some decent posts in the meantime so let's not pretend that isn't in the back of your mind here and is probably your only motivation for even engaging with me right now. 


Really? Not sure I understand you right here but isn't the exactly what you're doing now? I think people do have time. Too much time. On 99% of forums people post or troll for free, but there is financial incentive here so it makes things unique and exponentially worse because greed and laziness become motivation. I have no issue with people getting paid to post if people are actually contributing something of substance, but people shouldn't be able to get paid for regurgitating the same sentence over 200 alt accounts just to get paid and that's what we're trying to solve.



None of what I've suggested is draconian and claiming so seems to be a gross exaggeration or being overly dramatic just for the sake. Requiring a few merit is nothing. Do you think requiring a drivers license to drive is draconian? I'd say it's logical. Not everyone is qualified to drive, just like not everyone is qualified to earn via posting.



I do see both sides. I'm actually trying to make things better for everyone. People shouldn't be able to get paid to destroy the forum so I'm saying earn that right. People are literally getting paid for writing junk and I don't think that's acceptable, just like I don't think it would be acceptable for someone to do a job that they're not qualified for.



Please kindly stop making stuff up. Where did I refer to anyone who is not a high rank as leeches? I don't think people should be able to get paid for merely banging their head against a keyboard or writing something like "bitcoin is good because it's profit and profit is good because it's bitcoin and I can buy my daily needs with profit". All I'm asking is for some minimum standards because clearly things can't go on as they are, and without doing something about it now then the next step would be to remove signatures completely. What would you and all the shitposters do then? The spammers would leave as fast as they came and to never return and thus having ruined it for everyone else in the process. I don't think they should be able to ruin it for everyone else and that's why we need some standards before the ultimate solution is to get rid of signatures.


You mean you want to easily be able to get paid for doing nothing? If you can make good posts then you shouldn't have an issue, but you're basically just complaining that you can't earn money easily and straight away.


What exactly is your point here? I write long posts and barely got any merit?


What is and isn't a great post is subjective, but my point is that if you're a decent contributor who puts thought and effort into their posts then you will almost certainly have no issue in getting the required merit to move up ranks over time. Spammers wont though and that's why the merit system is here.