Topic: Merit source observations - page 5. (Read 4254 times)

Maybe there's a valid reason why he doing this because we all know that he is a good merit source  many user here in forum who experience his kindness . But not just merit he he gave to us but the threads he made are very useful and one of the most useful thread in B&H which the encyclopedia many newbie learn a lot.

I don't think so  Because there are merit source who did not just active everytime by sending their sMerit but still they are merit source.

Tranthidung i know all of that, merit sources are doing a free job, i know they are not paid or anything, and i never called it a job in the sense you have taken it, maybe you took that part out of context, if you look closely, i put that part in single quotes. My idea is that as a merit source you have a personal duty to keep merits flowing in the forum, that is why the forum generates free merits for you every thirty days to give it out to members. If a merit source isn't active, then they may not have the time that you are talking about, but they do not have to spend their time to do anything if they are active, they can send merits in the threads they participate in.
I did not say the merit system is similar to a barter trade, but we would want to encourage more people to be involved in the flow, there is no need to hoard it, so i would prefer to send merits to members that are involved in the system, not members that hoard their smerits that is of no use to them, i have also seen merit sources say the same thing.

If every member hoarded merits and expect to receive from others, then who is going to rank up, everyone will be stuck somewhere, users would not celebrate their milestone merit achievements, members will not get to 10k merits, etc.

Only if that merit source sends a request to be blacklist by theymos (blacklist ~ no longer want to be a merit source) or if theymos reshuffles merit sources that he barely does.

Personally, it is not a duty or a job!

Merit sources are doing free meriting jobs but they have to spend their time to do it. So there is no pressure from theymos I think. A merit source is granted if theymos considers that member is a quality member and has ability to clarify bad and good posts, trusted enough to not sell sourced merits to get money etc.

What happens if a merit source stops meriting posts? Are they booted out? Because i feel as a merit source it is a duty to you to merit posts, if you are a member that is not a merit source then that is different, you might not give out any merits and it would not be a problem, only that members may not merit you too as you are not involved in the system, but as a merit source deciding to stop meriting posts sounds like 'quiting your job'.

Is it because of a lack of activity and time or what led you to the decision to stop meriting other posts? It seems quite easy to do it in the discussions you participate in without having to go on a merit hunt elsewhere. Are you planning to get back to doing the things you did so far or are you considering leaving the forum?

I looked at your first 3 posts on the forum, as well as my first 3 
I would rather forget my first 3 posts, but your third post was still quite interesting and good.
I really didn't know anything about crypto in the beginning but I learned from others on this forum and over time I started writing more meaningful posts and sharing my experience with others.
I believe that many other members on this forum started in a similar way, and that is completely normal.
No one is an expert at the beginning, but it is important that we are ready to learn and progress, and with time will come the recognition of others and reputation, merits and progress on the forum. 

A logical opinion because accounts with higher rankings are already at the stage of "enjoying the results" of what has been done previously with the current merit system and those with higher ranks also deserve merit from other users of the same rank as us, because one and some things that can benefit our progress.

That post s where it all began. That was my first merit here on the forum. @Pursuer started my incredible journey here on the forum.

Your third post is quite good and also have merits as well depending on the newbie rank and next post also states that what if newbies made quality posts ? That's surely merit worthing.

The same case is for most of us that when we joined the forum we don't have knowledge and same could be judged from our post quality but after that we started learning lot of things and exchange knowledge on the forum growing with time and now see you have managed to earn 10k merits in just few years time span so looking back at time surely boost our confidence that how far we have came.

But there are some newbies on the forum who are just new to the forum but have adequate technical knowledge about bitcoin and merits are being delivered to them at much faster pace.So we all have different way of growing on forum but going ahead is necessary.

I hope you are still willing to do it again soon, your contribution is needed even though at the moment you seem to be taking the initiative not to spend it.

You really remind me of my first post again on this forum. At that time I was using android to do activities in forums and even I didn't understand much about electrum and it took me months to learn how to sign messages on PC once I had it.

Many of the merit source here may not be in a hurry to distribute more merit at a time when we are still newbie. We have to prove that we are really newbie who want to gain a lot of knowledge by learning new things on the forum, especially about bitcoin. They want to see the process and for sure if we do it in the best way then I'm sure it will be hard for them to ignore our post. Those are some things that might be normal for merit source in my opinion.

True.
I dare you to read my first posts here, and many of them are of an embarrassingly low quality (even if I still think the third post is still valid!)

The important thing is the journey on the forum!

I totally agree with you.
None of us (or at least the vast majority) were big experts at the beginning of our crypto journey and as new members on this forum we wrote posts of lower quality, and that's normal.
It's important that the new member feels accepted and welcome on this forum, and that we give him the opportunity to gain some knowledge and experience.
Of course, many new members, as soon as they understand the value of rank and merit on the forum, will do their best to gain merits as soon as possible and advance on the forum.
Some members will earn merits more easily, while other members will have a harder time, but as long as they don't spam the forum, they should be supported and not criticized too much.

I do get the animosity towards those that appear to be merit fishing, Although, their motivation is there, their application isn't necessarily so. I think getting the pitch fork out, is probably a bad idea, since these types of users can easily adjust, and become valuable users of the forum. There's been many of times where a user has annoyed me a little at first with their posting habits, but years down the line have actually become some of the more prominent users of the forum.

So, while merit fishing should probably be pointed out, I don't think it's a death sentence for a user. They just need to change their thinking a little bit. At the end of the day, if they're posting simply to earn merit, as long as the information is useful, and isn't regurgitated, then I haven't got a problem with their motivations that led to the post, as long as it's of good quality.

Hello Ratimov! My concern is out of context of your argument but I will appreciate if you respond.
The Merit that you sent out over the last 2/3 months has reduced drastically when compared to Q1 and late last year, your activity on some boards has also reduced especially the beginner & help board, and some of the threads you frequently updated to help out newbies are no longer active, like the Encyclopedia. I have been wondering if you have been removed from the Merit source because from my observations, it was the week you announced that you will be active in the forum I noticed these changes. You motivate me in many of your threads during my newbie days and I have mange to be a Sr.Member, I really hope you are fine.

Congrats on your 8K merit journey.

Neatly, it is in welcome message from theymos. Let me quote it again!
They try to write too long posts that have side effects on readers. Sometimes, readers don't read all the post. Sometimes, they won't understand what is message behind the post.

Indeed, it is better than spamming because writer actually work and spend some effort. However, it is still bad in terms of writing. They must improve how they write in order to express their opinion better. I repeatedly told newbies that writing is the art that is hard to achieve Writing Proficiency.

Honestly, when I was young, I hated and can not absorb advises from my tutors about my writing. Sometimes I thought they are too rude or any thing similar. Then, with experience I understand they are right and their advise helps me a lot.

There are a few good threads that analyse the importance of local boards to the merit system.
The best I think is this global overview from @Rikafip:
[CHARTS] Brief monthly overview of the local boards activity

or threads focusing on particular boards like this one:
[Meta] Andamento sezione italiana

It's too late in the day and I'm too lazy, but I recall not too long ago I posted a response to a lower-ranked member who'd started a thread that I knew was straight-up merit fishing after reading the first few sentences.  I made a comment that it was obvious he was mistaking post length for post quality and that what he'd written was bloated beyond belief.  So yeah, in cases like those you know it when you see it.

Other times it's not obvious if someone is just posting because they're hoping to earn merits--and frankly I don't necessarily see that as wrong in and of itself.  You can write a post that's witty or one that's clear there was some work and thought put into it, and as long as it's interesting, who cares what the motivation was behind it?  I only care when it's blatant merit fishing, and I've noticed that those cases tend to be when a lower-ranked member creates a new thread and not when they're posting within one that already exists.

I'm also one of those merit sources who didn't apply to be one.  I figure if the boss man taps you for a job you didn't ask for, he's not going to be riding your ass the whole time.  We probably got the position at the same time, and I don't know about you, but I haven't heard a peep from Theymos about anything merit-related since then. 

Not sure how many merit sources there currently are, but it's a diverse bunch.  That's an advantage, since most (if not all) of the boards are covered, and each source has their own standards with respect to what's a merit-worthy post.  If there wasn't this kind of leeway and discussions like the one we're having, I don't think the system would work as well as it has.

Giving up is not a good solution in my opinion, when you create the topic it is certainly accompanied by good intentions, wanting to help low-ranking users to rank up, I really appreciate your good intentions. The way you do is almost the same as the thread we have on the Indonesian local Board [HELP]Bantuan untuk menaikkan Rank (Newbie s.d Hero) V.2 [UPDATE], There, local users who have quality posts in Indonesian can submit post links that may have been overlooked by Merit Sources or Contributors for review.

Not only you, anyone will be annoyed with PM spam from Newbie begging for Merit. You can exclude unwanted PM from Newbie on the button attached to the image, After that you can sleep well.

There may be a bit of "I know it when I see it" coming from merit source members in regards to judging if too much merit fishing might be happening, and you can't necessarily blame them...

In your example, you can see how some of this can end up going badly.  Some members start threads over any dumb little thing, and surely even though I am not much of a thread starter myself, there can be some value in starting threads.. but Jesus fuck..   when the OP of the thread barely has any bones, there can be a lot of questioning regarding why a new thread needed to be started rather than finding some thread that already exists that is already in the ballpark.

Sure, interacting with other members (presumptively more senior) can surely be helpful but also be seen as lacking in substance (in the merit fishing kind of way), and sometimes some merit source members might be too quick to judge.. admittedly so.


And also there might be a need to hold some members to higher (or even lower) standards depending on posting history too..   I surely don't know the line exactly because sometimes even my own thinking on the topic can vary depending on what else I have going on ..  sometimes I will formulate mental pictures of other members in my head, and they are likely not even always very accurate, because sometimes if I run across a post, or even some other member points something out and then I review some posting history.. my mental picture could radically change in one direction or another.. and sometimes that translates into merits  or regrets about having had sent merits.. but we know that is not reversible.


Getting back to the idea of members having a posting history.. sometimes merit sources might judge someone more harshly when there is little to no posting history, and then after a while, they see several posts from the member and then end up lightening up on their harshness... Some times bad impressions are created too.. and I have had some more longer term members tell me that I was being too mean to some new members, and surely sometimes, there is context and disagreement, and maybe sometimes they are right.. I may or may not decide to change my behavior.. and I might take one stance but not really disclose what the stance that I am taking.. and sometimes I just end up forgetting about it or even being inadvertent about it.. mistakes can be made sometimes, too.

There are some members who I have liked them a lot if they post about certain kinds of content (topics).. but if they post about other kinds of content (topics).. it can sometimes bother me in regards to their opinion or their approach to the topic... so those kinds of posts can influence, and then those kinds of mental images can sometimes get stuck about a member. rightly or wrongly..



Yep.. fair enough.. Theymos does seem to leave quite a bit of latitude..at least so far... and perhaps part of the rationale is that it is a voluntary position (I am pretty sure the very first set of assignments of merit sources, were just members who theymos picked for his own reasons.. so several of them did not ask (including yours truly) but at the same time, some of the earliest members who he chose to be sources were either stingy or just did not have time for sending smerits), and it could be that theymos can get enough of an idea about if he might conclude that some aspects is not working.. whether it is the report button.. or maybe looking at some of the ways that merit source members are spending their source merits....


Ok.. I will take your word for the smerit distribution comparisons for the various locale sections of the forum...

If you use the word crypto or cryptocurrency in the WO thread without explaining ur lil selfie.. then you would not likely to get any smerit from me.. .You might even get me to hold a grudge for a while and to lecture you on the topic...   My point is that the WO thread is about bitcoin and bitcoin related topics and gosh maybe almost anything else except for shitcoins (unless they are clearly referred to as shitcoins and put in a proper context.. maybe even deference to king daddy    )...

If you send a funny cat video in the WO thread, on the other hand, that seems to capture some kind of moment or something that seems relevant to anything other than shitcoins, you may well get me to send an smerit or even more than one.  Personally, I do not tend to send a lot of smerits on any specific posts.. .. usually it would need to be bitcoin-related and maybe have some explanations and fleshing out of matters related to bitcoin or some other topic that I believe had been well-explained (or some other reason to strike me as merit worthy) before I start to increase the quantity of smerits sent to any specific post.. but I recall sending some higher quantity of smerits on a few occasions for just somewhat spur of the moment considerations.. so sure.. maybe some of those kinds of emotional outbursts (from an admitted bot) is not very healthy to the whole merit system.. .

and I am not even sure if the WO thread is going outside of theymos's vision too much.. because that thread has kind of built a place in the forum.. so yeah, probably you are correct that theymos did not originally consider it to be any kind of theymos or forum cultural phenomena.. but when he shut it down in early 2017-ish? he seemed to rethink the place of the WO thread.. so whether such thread is too far gone or not, I doubt that the evidence really supports that it is too far gone otherwise something about it would end up getting modified. .and it even seems to have had gotten better after Infofront took it over as the new owner.. It's working, so don't fix it.. right? Maybe some folks disagree?

I won't even hold grudges against shitcoiners if they end up come around or at least largely refrain from their shitcoining in bitcoin threads.. .. but the most likely way to get me to hold a grudge is to either engage in shitcoining or to wantingly engage in loose language that attempts to describe bitcoin as if it were equivalent to various shitcoins.. hence the stupid-ass term crypto (cryptocurrency) that annoys me so much, and maybe even more if some members try to defend their usage of such vague and frequently misleading term... although if the thread is in the ann section or within some thread that is already vaguely-framed - I will usually (not always) just stay out of those threads completely and let the shitcoiners talk however they like in their abilities to sort matters out amongst themselves.. in regards of confusion about the topic they discuss.. and maybe sometimes smart things still might be said, even when it starts out with a weird framework that fails/refuses to distinguish bitcoin from shitcoins.

I think I should write something about the objectives of this thread and the current discussion

• Objectives: mainly to observe merit source in terms of statistics -- total merit sources, total smerit allocation each month, their changes over time. That's it
• Discussion can be on merit sources and their merit distribution activities but please don't go too far with it. It will derail the topic and its main objectives.
• For discussion or suggestion to improve merit system, difficulty for newbies to rank up, please discuss in Merit & new rank requirements